bullet vs bullet; safety first please

[WESHOOT2]

.
I have a car from Japan.
You have a car from Germany.
They both weigh the same.

They, regardless, are NOT the same.



I have a bullet from Speer.
You have a bullet from ANYBODY ELSE.
They both weigh the same.

They, regardless, are NOT the same.


This is always true.
Even the 'same' bullet from different lots can vary. This is why every manual/guide starts with this specific warning: "Start low work up slow".

Ay?

 

[protoolman]

Seating depth is what can make the pressure of different bullets of the same weight vary so much. Two jacketed bullets of the same weight seated to a similiar depth is usually not a big risk. I totally disagree that "even the same bullet from different lots can vary". While it can "vary" its not enough to cause any problem whatsover unless all your loads are jacked up beyond the recipies in the loading books by a good margin. I would worry less about working up slow than proceeding with common sense. You shouldn't be making sustitutions with max loads but with "average" loads you should be well within the safety zone.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

MAYBE there's so little difference once shouldn't worry too much, as Protoolman suggests, and the experienced loader would be fine w/ his suggestions.

For myself, though, now that Weshoot2's getting started loading his SECOND 100 rounds(nudge, nudge, ;) ;) For those who don't know him--there are a LOT more zeroes in that count), I appreciate and practice his advice! It's really hard to be TOO safety conscious dealing w/ stuff that goes "boom."

Yes, I'm a bit conservative about this stuff, but I can still count to 21 on my original parts... and would like to keep it that way for a while longer.

Rick C

 

[SweetWilliam]

A 240gr bullet is a 240gr. bullet.

 

[Cholo]

A 240gr bullet is a 240gr. bullet.

Yes, a 240 gr. bullet does weigh 240 grs. :wink: Not all bearing surfaces are the same though.

 

[greenmtnguy]

Indeed, bearing surface area, crimp location/seating depth, jacketed vs plated vs lead, gascheck vs plain base - all have an effect, some more than others.

 

[protoolman]

I mean to say bullet weight and seating depth being similiar there are not any huge safety concerns. In regards to safe practices there are many things to observe. I'm not advocating any unsafe practices. I find the original post more of a statement than anything. I just responded to the statement which I really didn't understand the purpose of?

 

[Rick Courtright]

I just responded to the statement which I really didn't understand the purpose of?

Hi,

Just a thought, but there are a LOT of folks thinking about, or getting started in, the reloading "hobby" right now. Many of them are coming in due to the various ammo shortages, which are translating into component shortages, and I'm sure we'll see a LOT of seemingly odd "Will this work w/ that" and "What's the difference between A and B" kinds of questions in the coming months. Many will be based on the fact the person asking will be quite limited in the components he can buy for a while...

As such, Weshoot2's comments seem valuable, at least to me!

Rick C

 

[WESHOOT2]

My thinking, based on my learning, based on my experience, based on my mistakes:


There can be a huge safety-concern difference between same-weight bullets from differing lots / makers / alloys.

Speer's plated bullets, while seemingly 'conventional' to the uninitiated, can offer drastic differences in pressure and performance when compared against jacketed and lead choices.

NOT PICKING ON Speer; just an example.

Another common weight is the 124/125g choices for 9mm bores. Even with 'lead' bullets, alloying, heat treatment (if any), and bearing surface, all can have substantial affect on pressure and performance.

So I stand by my statement: "Bullets are different, so work up with the one you've chosen".


There are no "recipes" in any manual; there are only RESULTS based on the testing THEY did.
And with so many newcomers to this art-and-science-blend "hobby", many ignore the part about "work up slow" and simply pick the MAX offered (I know I did back in 1976 when I first started :shock: ).

 

[WESHOOT2]

It came to me Friday when I sat down to make ammo for my club's Sunday USPSA match..... http://www.GMPSVT.com


My XL650 was set to make 125g LRN 9x19 ammo.
I didn't have any clean sorted cases.
I was nearly out of that NEB 125g LRN (under 1,000 left).

I DID have:
-new Starline brass 9x19 cases
-a 'few' R-P 115g JHP bullets.

So I sized a new case on my press and seated a Federal 100 and dropped 5.3g WAP and seated one of those R-Ps without any press adjustments whatsoever.
OAL was 1.095", so I went back through my under-.400"-bore data logs and found an old load using that bullet, with an OAL of 1.090" (see, I use THAT bullet for some of my personal carry ammo).
So I tweaked the LEE seat die to give my 1.090", and made 200 for the match.

Oh my what beauteous shooters.....shot to POA, too!.....wish I was as good as my gun-n-ammo...... :mrgreen:


Not just different weight, but stuff. Everything. I AM a risk-taker.

 

[mikld]

My thinking, based on my learning, based on my experience, based on my mistakes:


There can be a huge safety-concern difference between same-weight bullets from differing lots / makers / alloys.

Speer's plated bullets, while seemingly 'conventional' to the uninitiated, can offer drastic differences in pressure and performance when compared against jacketed and lead choices.

NOT PICKING ON Speer; just an example.

Another common weight is the 124/125g choices for 9mm bores. Even with 'lead' bullets, alloying, heat treatment (if any), and bearing surface, all can have substantial affect on pressure and performance.

So I stand by my statement: "Bullets are different, so work up with the one you've chosen".


There are no "recipes" in any manual; there are only RESULTS based on the testing THEY did.
And with so many newcomers to this art-and-science-blend "hobby", many ignore the part about "work up slow" and simply pick the MAX offered (I know I did back in 1976 when I first started :shock: ).

I'm gonna go with WESHOOT2 on this issue. That's one reason I suggest to a new reloader to find a load in your manual first, then buy components and use the starting loads for the combination of components you chose. Don't try to extrapolate load data from one bullet to another, even if they are the same weight, untill you have a few years under your reloading belt...

 

[Ruber]

My thinking, based on my learning, based on my experience, based on my mistakes:


There can be a huge safety-concern difference between same-weight bullets from differing lots / makers / alloys.

couldn't agree more!

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

Agree with using caution when substituting bullets. Got Speer #14? Look at the 44 mag loads for 270 gr Gold Dot Soft Point and 300 gr Uni-Core Soft Point. For H110, the max charge goes up 1.5 gr for the heavier bullet. Speer puts a note in explaining that it's the difference in the bullet core's alloy.

 

[dougader]

As an example, check the 44 mag data in the Lyman 48th and 49th manuals. Now look at the data for the 240 grain jacketed bullets. IIRC, they have separate data for both the Sierra JHC and the Speer 240 grain jhp (not the Gold Dot). Now look at the difference in starting and max loads for the two 240 grain jhp bullets.

Just because 2 bullets both weigh the same does not mean they have the same exact data. Be careful out there. Better to be safe than "KABOOM." 8)