Bullet choice - same weight, cast vs jacketed

[ScottZ]

so if there is a published load for a jacketed bullet, but no load listed for the same shape bullet, only lead instead of jacketed, how does that affect the load? Should the powder charge be dropped or is it ok to use the same starting point?

 

[Clovishound]

I would never use jacketed data for cast bullets.

 

[ScottZ]

Ok, so how would you start? Hodgdon doesn't list an RO loads for 250 gr LRNFP bullets, only XTP's.

 

[COR]

I would never use jacketed data for cast bullets.

Yes you can (and should).

You are fine in using jacketed loads for cast bullets.

Cast data with jacketed bullets is where you can get into dicey territory.

One caveat - due to varying cast bullet designs (and the ability to make custom molds) one must be pay attention to how much bullet is in the case. As always, never start with max loads just work up from the starting jacketed loads.

If that is the classic .45 bullet, mine love 9 or 10grs of Unique FWIW. Most .45's I have shoot it well.

 

[ScottZ]

Thanks. I thought that was the case, but didn't want to assume anything.

 

[VA Shooter]

if you reload alot of cast bullets you should get the book Ingot to Target alot of info for you

 

[Hammerdown77]

An XTP bullet is probably one of the "safest" bullets you could use to substitute data (that is, use data for an XTP with a cast bullet). The reason is because XTPs have a long bearing surface and seat deeper in the case than most; therefore, the max powder charge for the XTP is going to allow for more safety margin when using a bullet that doesn't sit as deeply in the case. Basically, the XTP is the "worst case" example of seating depth.

 

[ScottZ]

That's good to know. Thanks!

 

[Clovishound]

I would never use jacketed data for cast bullets.

Yes you can (and should).

You are fine in using jacketed loads for cast bullets.

Cast data with jacketed bullets is where you can get into dicey territory.

One caveat - due to varying cast bullet designs (and the ability to make custom molds) one must be pay attention to how much bullet is in the case. As always, never start with max loads just work up from the starting jacketed loads.

If that is the classic .45 bullet, mine love 9 or 10grs of Unique FWIW. Most .45's I have shoot it well.

I am looking at data for the caliber and powder I load. 9mm and Titegroup.

For a 125 grain LCN it lists 3.6 - 4.0 for the range
For a 125 grain FMJ it lists 4.1 - 4.4 for the range

The start load for the FMJ is higher than than the max for cast.

I will not load over the listed max for a bullet.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

If you can find a copy (I think it's still available from Midway?), the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is an invaluable source. It covers both handgun and rifle cast bullet usage.

For rifle use, if one doesn't have access to other data, Lee's "Modern Reloading" book has a formula to derive cast bullet loads from jacketed data for the same weight. I've used it w/ success in a couple of cartridges. Since I normally load the cast bullets between 1750-2000 fps (calculated--haven't chrono'd 'em yet), the charges are quite a bit lower than w/ jacketed bullets, which, of course, are usually running considerably faster.

As for handguns, I try to find something in print from a reputable source when using cast bullets. The guys at the Cast Boolit forum are a good source for "online" info. There's a rule of thumb I've heard that kinda matches the numbers Clovishound posted: they MAX cast load should be no higher than the STARTING load for the same weight jacketed bullet.

However, I don't trust that one to just go start loading something unless I can find some other backup. There's a little bit too much to consider when working up loads to rely on nothing but a rule of thumb! As the man once said, "Trust, but verify." When you're dealing w/ stuff that goes "Bang!" you can't be TOO safe!

Rick C

 

[ScottZ]

Since posting the question I've found some loads to start with. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

You have to be careful using data for one bullet and substituting another bullet. It might be better to use data for a heavier weight bullet of the same construction. Hard cast lead can be loaded close to jacketed levels but soft lead no. There is probably a good reason there isn't any 250gr LRNFP bullets in the 'Ruger Only' section because they are mostly soft lead and cant stand-up to the higher pressures. Do not use XTP data for soft lead bullets in 'Ruger only' loads.

 

[ScottZ]

It's hard cast.

 

[anachronism]

Cast bullets are considerably softer than jacketed bullets. This difference results in less resistance (friction) as the bullet travels down the bore. I too use a lot of jacketed bullet information as a starting point for cast bullets of similar weight. However, as mentioned above, using cast bullet data for jacketed bullets is really risky. Some cast bullet data is pretty light, and there's always a risk of sticking a jacketed bullet in the bore when using a light load. Top end cast bullet loads can be higher than top end jacketed loads, and that too can cause problems because chamber pressures can skyrocket because if the increased resistance (friction again!) of jacketed bullets. Then you get into things like (true) LBT bullet designs that really require starting from the very beginning, and doing full load development, which often goes beyond published "book" loads for other cast bullet designs, but are perfectly safe, if you know what you're doing. There really are some good reasons that LBT won't give out load data for their designs, and also why LBT designs are so popular with the long range revolver guys. No matter what you do with cast. Anyway, infomercial aside, most experienced cast shooters get pretty good at judging load data to determine their starting point. From there, it's all in the load development. Oh yeah... Titegroup royally sucks for cast bullets, IMHO.

 

[greenmtnguy]

The lead bullet (without a gas check) still may not hold up to the pressures and velocity of a jacketed bullet load. Trying to push lead-only bullets too fast can cause alot of lead fouling in the bore and poor accuracy and mess. Often (but not always) a lead bullet will be more easily pushed out the barrel than a higher friction/bearing area jacketed bullet. As the others have said - in this particular case - considering the starting load for Hornady XTP data for the 45 Colt is a reasonably safe starting point. But do not extrapolate this to mean that this is always the case in other cartridges or bullet applications. 'Ruger Only loads' entail pressures that may be simply overkill for pushing your 250gr LRNFP bullet out the tube - the bullet will be traveling down the barrel before the pressure point that would be experienced with the XTP bullet is reached. And if too soft the bullet will deposit alot of lead in the bore, and you may even blow out unburned powder with it. As a rule of thumb, keep plain base lead bullets in the 45Colt to around 1000 FPS MV or under and you'll be much happier with the results. Gas Checked or jacketed bullets can be pushed more - but you may be quite surprised at home much power and penetration "only" 1000-1100 FPS 250 grains of lead will accomplish.

Good luck, be safe