One of the many reasons I like Ruger firearms is the way they reflect his personality and engineering design principles. Strong, cost effective and good looks. His early single actions and .22 cal semi autos are well proportioned and quite graceful. Where might I find a list of firearms designed by Bill Ruger vs those designed by other Ruger employed designers? Who is designing todays Rugers?
Bill Ruger designed firearms?
- Thread starter GammaRay
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TDF
Single-Sixer
You would enjoy the book Ruger & his Guns.
TDF
TDF
h bone
Bearcat
I strongly recommend a book titled, RUGER PISTOLS & REVOLVERS: The Vintage Years 1949-1973 by John C. Dougan, copyright 2008.
flatgate
Hawkeye
h bone is right on, however R.L.Wilson's Ruger and His Guns takes the cake.
JMHO,
flatgate
JMHO,
flatgate
Ruger4Life
Single-Sixer
Bill Ruger was a firearms genius. Greatest designer since John Browning, IMHO.
ElrodCod
Single-Sixer
Ruger4Life said:
He was great at copying desiigns and reverse engineering them but a firearms genious? I don't think so.
COR
Blackhawk
ElrodCod said:
Oh boy....
Blackmore
Blackhawk
COR said:
Ken ONeill
Single-Sixer
The guy who needs spell check is evidently a gun designer too.
Ruger4Life
Single-Sixer
Take a look at all the designs that he copied, modified and improved...and yes, many of the semi-autos that were designed from the ground up.
The legacy of firearms that collectively out-sell all other major manufacturers says something about the man that had his hand in most all of them to some degree.
Ruger has come to mean quality, durable firearms at an economical price. THAT takes genius, even if you do not respect that he borrowed from some of the greatest rifle, autoloader and revolver designs of the 19th and 20th century.
We like to say in the army--"If it ain't broke don't fix it". Sounds good but the army violates this slogan all the time.
The legacy of firearms that collectively out-sell all other major manufacturers says something about the man that had his hand in most all of them to some degree.
Ruger has come to mean quality, durable firearms at an economical price. THAT takes genius, even if you do not respect that he borrowed from some of the greatest rifle, autoloader and revolver designs of the 19th and 20th century.
We like to say in the army--"If it ain't broke don't fix it". Sounds good but the army violates this slogan all the time.
you might not like his spelling, but 'blackmore' is right.........he copied a LOT and was a "user", wasted nothing of his or of 'others'...........
street
Hunter
COPIER?
And just what gun did he copy when he designed the Standard and MK-I pistol. Not only was it a new design with stationary sights, that didn't move with the movement of the bolt, but he designed most of the jigs that was used to manufacture this gun. As for his revolvers, Single-Six and such. Yes it looked lake a colt but that is where it stopped. The gun used coiled springs a complete one piece grip frame, and a internal firing pin which allows the owner of this fine revolver to dry fire it. Oh by the way Colt didn't design it's single action to fire a .22 but if they did the firing pin on the hammer of the colt would not let you dry fire it. And yes this firing pin on the hammer was prone to break, unlike Ruger's internal firing pin. And yes I know after Ruger came out with their .22 then colt copied Ruger and came out with the Scout, with the one piece grip frame.
Now lets look at the 10-22. With that magazine what gun did he copy? I can't think of one. Yes it looks like a M-one carbine, but looks only.
Although I hate the conversion kit, look at what went into that design. It takes an Old Model Ruger and with out doing any machining on the frame turns it into a safe revolver that one can carry 6 rounds without danger of it firing when dropped on it's hammer. And it only cost a few dollars to do. And when he returns the old parts the gun can be returned to it's original state for the collector. Just that design alone makes him a design genius.
Everything that you say that he copied he copied in looks only, and he re-designed it to be a better operating firearm. Just look at all the guns that are 30, 40, 50, and 60 years old that are going strong today. There are too many gun writers and firearm experts, you know people that know what they are talking about, people that make a living in the firearms industry that have called him a "DESIGN GENIUS"
COPIER HE'S NOT, GENIUS HE WAS :roll:
And just what gun did he copy when he designed the Standard and MK-I pistol. Not only was it a new design with stationary sights, that didn't move with the movement of the bolt, but he designed most of the jigs that was used to manufacture this gun. As for his revolvers, Single-Six and such. Yes it looked lake a colt but that is where it stopped. The gun used coiled springs a complete one piece grip frame, and a internal firing pin which allows the owner of this fine revolver to dry fire it. Oh by the way Colt didn't design it's single action to fire a .22 but if they did the firing pin on the hammer of the colt would not let you dry fire it. And yes this firing pin on the hammer was prone to break, unlike Ruger's internal firing pin. And yes I know after Ruger came out with their .22 then colt copied Ruger and came out with the Scout, with the one piece grip frame.
Now lets look at the 10-22. With that magazine what gun did he copy? I can't think of one. Yes it looks like a M-one carbine, but looks only.
Although I hate the conversion kit, look at what went into that design. It takes an Old Model Ruger and with out doing any machining on the frame turns it into a safe revolver that one can carry 6 rounds without danger of it firing when dropped on it's hammer. And it only cost a few dollars to do. And when he returns the old parts the gun can be returned to it's original state for the collector. Just that design alone makes him a design genius.
Everything that you say that he copied he copied in looks only, and he re-designed it to be a better operating firearm. Just look at all the guns that are 30, 40, 50, and 60 years old that are going strong today. There are too many gun writers and firearm experts, you know people that know what they are talking about, people that make a living in the firearms industry that have called him a "DESIGN GENIUS"
COPIER HE'S NOT, GENIUS HE WAS :roll:
Boge
Single-Sixer
Many are unable to be objective in matters such as this, but I'll weigh in.
Most of J.M. Browning's design ONLY saw the light of day because they were "tweaked" by real engineers such as Wm. Mason & Tommy Johnson. FWIW, Wm. Mason designed the Colt SAA when he was at Colt. :wink:
Browning himself said that John Pedersen was the greatest gun designer of all time. 99.99% of people today don't even know who he was.
Was Bill Ruger a genius? Not as a gun designer IMO, but as a marketer and manufacturer he was Sam Colt II. :wink:
Most of J.M. Browning's design ONLY saw the light of day because they were "tweaked" by real engineers such as Wm. Mason & Tommy Johnson. FWIW, Wm. Mason designed the Colt SAA when he was at Colt. :wink:
Browning himself said that John Pedersen was the greatest gun designer of all time. 99.99% of people today don't even know who he was.
Was Bill Ruger a genius? Not as a gun designer IMO, but as a marketer and manufacturer he was Sam Colt II. :wink:
street said:
+1...very well said, built a company from the ground up and made it profitable using only the initial 50K investment....I will go further, Bill Ruger was a design genius, an engineering genius, a marketing genius AND a business Genius....JMB cannot compare because he NEVER risked his own money......Bill Ruger...big brain and bigger gonads!! :lol:
that was well put Boge, cause thats what Bill was good at,taking others ideas and designs and modifying them to get HIS way across, not going to sit here nd go over every detail, just LOOK at and KNOW whats in the early gunsd he had done, and what they were often compared to back then, in the beginning and as for the business sense?? maybe one should go talk to some of the Sturm family and get their feelings.........too much to even try and get across to any of the 'star struck' ones...........no Sirree, that 50,000 was NOT Bills....................this ain't politics, nor religion, not even the weather, so no matter what is said, will not change anyones "opinion"............Genius? up to debate...cantankurous (sic) SOB to work for, known fact...thats the trouble with Ruger collecting back in his day, as he seldom (never???<nope, can't use that word ..) wrote anything down, he simply told people what to do.....and HIS way.......
BearStopper
Blackhawk
Is he the greatest technical mind ever at creating completely new designs from scratch??? Probably not but not far from it. He definitely was very good at creating very durable, relatively inexpensive, beautiful firearms and still being profitable. He introduced methods to the firearms industry that allowed great arms to be produced in the era when other companies were dealing with skyrocketing costs to build existing arms and were discontinuing many of them. His company has surpassed most every other to produce more arms than the rest. What more could he have done?
street
Hunter
When Colt designed his revolver this wasn't the first handgun designed nor the first revolver. If I remember correctly some one had invented a "Pepper Box" years before. All Colt did was copy this idea and make his changes and came up with a revolver that had a cylinder that revolved instead of the barrels revolving. As a matter of fact that's all any firearm that is made today is. A redefined copy of a gun that was invented years ago. All any gun is a barrel, a firing mechanism, and a trigger to fire the mechanism, and a stock or a grip to hold. Every designer has his way of making these parts. Some do a good job of it, Colt, Smith & Wesson, Ruger comes to mind. Some don't, RG comes to mind on this.
Now to say Bill Ruger was good at copying, well you are right. He took a design, something that was made before, something with a barrel, firing mechanism, trigger, and a stock or grip and designed it his way, just like everyone in the last 200 or more years has done. To call him a copier then you will have to call Sam Colt, and John Browning a copier also.
If you look at the Winchester mod 70, it's just a copy of the German Mauser, with a few changes, and this gun is called the best Rifle designed. But it's a copy of the Mauser, which is a copy of every bolt action made before it, with small changes. Just like the Ruger M77, which is a copy of the Winchester Model 70, but with Bill Rugers design. They are all rifles with a bolt and a trigger, and a stock.
The Colt Single Action was made from 1873 to 1940 without any major changes. When Ruger started to make his Single Action the internal parts were completely different then Colt. He made it look like the Colt because he was not only a design genius but a marketing genius too. With all of the Cowboy Shows coming on TV and Colt had stopped making it Single Action during the War, there was a demand for a look alike Colt. That was one of the reason that he made it it looked like a colt. "MARKETING GENIUS.
Now it was stated that "Bill was good at, taking others ideas and designs and modifying them to get HIS way across". Yes he was, and it was stated that they didn't want to get in every detail. Will I don't blame you. "Remember build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to you". Or something to that effect. The more you would get into it the more of his genius would come out. The genius is not to keep inventing the wheel but to improve the wheel that you have. This was the Genius of Bill Ruger. Look at how he came up with the frame on his Automatic. The old way was to forge a frame out of a solid piece of steel and to go through all of the machine operations to get the frame at a finish piece. A lot of work and a lot of labor and a lot of time. What he did was to take two pieces of heavy sheet steel and to stamp out both sides and then to weld the two pieces together. What a design genius, and he nevered had a frame fail. Look at the time labor and machining that this saved. Now let's look at his Single-Six. Yes it looks like a Colt but I gave a reason for that, it was not to copy but to market it at that time. Once again Ruger figured out how to make a revolver frame without forging a frame out of a solid block of steel that needed to be milled, drilled and all of the machine work that called for. And how did this "Copier", others words not mine., do this. INVESTMENT CASTING. Another genius way to make a frame that requires little machining. Labor, time, and money saved. And guess what, now everyone is copying Ruger and doing investment casting. Looks as if Ruger is the innovator here and not the copier :lol:
Now I have give a lot of fact that show that Ruger was a design genius. Lets have some of you folks that say he is just a copier to list one gun that he flat out copied, with no changes. I mean changes that made the gun a better design, cheaper to make, and faster to build. I bet you can't do it.
Now I might be one of the "star" struck ones that you can't get across to, but I have given good information and facts on my thoughts on this and I have given a good challenge to the ones that are not "star" struck to come up with just one pure Ruger copy. Yea I know. Someone will say look at the Single-Six. It's just a copy of a Colt. And to that I say Just look at the Ford. It a copy of a Rolls Royce. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now for him being a SOB and hard to work for has nothing to do with whether he is a genius or not. I guess that was just put into the discussion to get off on another tangent with out ever giving any fact on him being a copier. Nice try but it's not going to work. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now to say Bill Ruger was good at copying, well you are right. He took a design, something that was made before, something with a barrel, firing mechanism, trigger, and a stock or grip and designed it his way, just like everyone in the last 200 or more years has done. To call him a copier then you will have to call Sam Colt, and John Browning a copier also.
If you look at the Winchester mod 70, it's just a copy of the German Mauser, with a few changes, and this gun is called the best Rifle designed. But it's a copy of the Mauser, which is a copy of every bolt action made before it, with small changes. Just like the Ruger M77, which is a copy of the Winchester Model 70, but with Bill Rugers design. They are all rifles with a bolt and a trigger, and a stock.
The Colt Single Action was made from 1873 to 1940 without any major changes. When Ruger started to make his Single Action the internal parts were completely different then Colt. He made it look like the Colt because he was not only a design genius but a marketing genius too. With all of the Cowboy Shows coming on TV and Colt had stopped making it Single Action during the War, there was a demand for a look alike Colt. That was one of the reason that he made it it looked like a colt. "MARKETING GENIUS.
Now it was stated that "Bill was good at, taking others ideas and designs and modifying them to get HIS way across". Yes he was, and it was stated that they didn't want to get in every detail. Will I don't blame you. "Remember build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to you". Or something to that effect. The more you would get into it the more of his genius would come out. The genius is not to keep inventing the wheel but to improve the wheel that you have. This was the Genius of Bill Ruger. Look at how he came up with the frame on his Automatic. The old way was to forge a frame out of a solid piece of steel and to go through all of the machine operations to get the frame at a finish piece. A lot of work and a lot of labor and a lot of time. What he did was to take two pieces of heavy sheet steel and to stamp out both sides and then to weld the two pieces together. What a design genius, and he nevered had a frame fail. Look at the time labor and machining that this saved. Now let's look at his Single-Six. Yes it looks like a Colt but I gave a reason for that, it was not to copy but to market it at that time. Once again Ruger figured out how to make a revolver frame without forging a frame out of a solid block of steel that needed to be milled, drilled and all of the machine work that called for. And how did this "Copier", others words not mine., do this. INVESTMENT CASTING. Another genius way to make a frame that requires little machining. Labor, time, and money saved. And guess what, now everyone is copying Ruger and doing investment casting. Looks as if Ruger is the innovator here and not the copier :lol:
Now I have give a lot of fact that show that Ruger was a design genius. Lets have some of you folks that say he is just a copier to list one gun that he flat out copied, with no changes. I mean changes that made the gun a better design, cheaper to make, and faster to build. I bet you can't do it.
Now I might be one of the "star" struck ones that you can't get across to, but I have given good information and facts on my thoughts on this and I have given a good challenge to the ones that are not "star" struck to come up with just one pure Ruger copy. Yea I know. Someone will say look at the Single-Six. It's just a copy of a Colt. And to that I say Just look at the Ford. It a copy of a Rolls Royce. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now for him being a SOB and hard to work for has nothing to do with whether he is a genius or not. I guess that was just put into the discussion to get off on another tangent with out ever giving any fact on him being a copier. Nice try but it's not going to work. :lol: :lol: :lol:
