Bear Defense gun

[RalphS]

I'm not too worried about the wood grips of the Redhawk because if I use this gun for self-defense on bear, I won't be concerned with a sore hand.

This is true for all of us. But, what about practice and becoming proficient with the gun? How many full power rounds can you shoot at the range with those grips?

 

[MaxP]

Over the years I've been dealing with John Linebaugh quite a bit and now fully buy into his philosophy that super heavy bullets at high velocity with massive recoil is just not useful, practical or necessary. Over the years he has backed off the velocity to the point that he now shoots, almost exclusively, mid-range loads. For example, in his personal 500 Linebaugh with a 4.75" barrel, he shoots a 425 grain LBT LFN GC over 16 grains of HS-6, or 23 grains of 2400, both with a nominal velocity of 1050fps. Not his only loads to be sure, but very representative. Based on real world experimentation both on media and game, he finds that penetration does not suffer from the lower velocity. These load are able to shoot through a full grown buffalo end to end. I've just received my 4.75" Ruger Bisley in 500 Linebaugh and have been using the 16 grain HS-6 load with a 450 grain LBT LFN GC (by Montana Bullets). I find the recoil entirely manageable, decidedly more so than either a factory 454 Casull or heavy 44 Mag. Both of those have far more muzzle whip (everything else being the same) than the mid-range 500L, which in my opinion has more of a heavy push. The other advantage to the 500L is obvious when you use the Taylor Knock Out Factor (TKOF) which factors in bullet diameter on top of muzzle energy: TKOF = (MV in fps X Bullet Weight in pounds X Bullet Diameter in inches) divided by 7000.




I also am a fan of the new 480 Ruger and am having John customize my Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley with a 4.65" barrel in that caliber. Nothing more than a short 475 Linebaugh, it should fill the bill perfectly as a mid-range 475L. The mid-range 475L (and I hope the 480R) has a superb reputation for not only accuracy and ease of control, but also penetration in game and its ability to put game down quickly and humanely.

Keith

Nice revolver, Keith. I have found in my own testing, that the .500 Linebaugh comes into its own with 500 - 525 grain bullets, as far as penetration is concerned. For some reason, initial load development stopped at 450 grain bullets or thereabouts, a tad heavier than the .475's "optimum" bullet weight. Cast Performance has a 525 grain WLN that puts the .500 Linebaugh in its own class of terminal effectiveness. I've thumped some big animals with that bullets. Again, just something to ponder if uncompromisingly deep penetration is the goal.

 

[tinman]

Well, you guys have given me some excellent thoughts to ponder for sure. I'm not too worried about the wood grips of the Redhawk because if I use this gun for self-defense on bear, I won't be concerned with a sore hand.......

We all shoot more at the practice range than out in the brush.

I have found this to be a universal truth:
If it hurts to practice.................you won't.

A critter that is trying to kill you, will quickly let you know if you have become proficient (enough). :idea:

 

[CraigC]

Well, I can use a rifle and a pistol, and like most people, I'm better with a rifle. But I'm not going to carry a rifle everywhere I go in Alaska (fishing & hiking). My buddy who lives in Anchorage says a 12-ga. with slugs and 00 buck shot is the way to go. I'm bringing a pistol.

12ga slugs are vastly overrated and surrounded by more myth & legend than anything. A good big bore rifle in anything from .44Mag up would be a better choice. Long guns are the better tool for most folks but it's tough to carry a rifle and do much with your hands at the same time. A good sixgun on your hip is a million times better than the rifle leaning against a tree 10ft away.

As the others have suggested, a good .480 is a great option too without getting into too horrendous recoil. IMHO, if Ruger would forget the 2" barrel crap and produce a 4" Super Redhawk .480, it would be one of the best packin' powerhouses ever devised.

 

[5of7]

As the others have suggested, a good .480 is a great option too without getting into too horrendous recoil. IMHO, if Ruger would forget the 2" barrel crap and produce a 4" Super Redhawk .480, it would be one of the best packin' powerhouses ever devised.

I agree to the 4" 480 and I have been considering "circumcising" the 7-1/2 incher to about that length, or perhaps 5-1/2"

 

[GunnyGene]

Well, I can use a rifle and a pistol, and like most people, I'm better with a rifle. But I'm not going to carry a rifle everywhere I go in Alaska (fishing & hiking). My buddy who lives in Anchorage says a 12-ga. with slugs and 00 buck shot is the way to go. I'm bringing a pistol.

12ga slugs are vastly overrated and surrounded by more myth & legend than anything. A good big bore rifle in anything from .44Mag up would be a better choice. Long guns are the better tool for most folks but it's tough to carry a rifle and do much with your hands at the same time. A good sixgun on your hip is a million times better than the rifle leaning against a tree 10ft away.

As the others have suggested, a good .480 is a great option too without getting into too horrendous recoil. IMHO, if Ruger would forget the 2" barrel crap and produce a 4" Super Redhawk .480, it would be one of the best packin' powerhouses ever devised.

Some slugs are better than others. Brenneke for example. But yeah, still the carrying problem.

 

[CraigC]

Some slugs are better than others. Brenneke for example. But yeah, still the carrying problem.

I tested them, they penetrate about like a standard weight revolver bullet (~250-260gr .44/.45). They're overrated and a big step down from a good rifle bullet.

They're oft-recommended because pump shotguns are cheap and plentiful. Not because they're the best tool for the job.

 

[GunnyGene]

Some slugs are better than others. Brenneke for example. But yeah, still the carrying problem.

I tested them, they penetrate about like a standard weight revolver bullet (~250-260gr .44/.45). They're overrated and a big step down from a good rifle bullet.

They're oft-recommended because pump shotguns are cheap and plentiful. Not because they're the best tool for the job.

The penetration depth of .44 vs 12 gauge is largely due to the difference in frontal area. .44 vs .73 (approx). But, the energy difference on target is huge, approx 900ft.lbs. That said, I agree that neither can compare to a large caliber rifle.

Just comparing your .44 (let's say 340gr +P+) to a common Brenneke Green Lightning for example at the muzzle(Manufacturers Data):

Brenneke

Green Lightning - 546gr
MV: 1476fps
ME: 2538ft.lbs

BuffaloBore

Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ Ammo, 340 gr. Hard Cast, L.F.N. - G.C.
(1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.)

 

[gunzo]

When slugs enter the penetration conversation, save all the older ones for small deer & such.

The fairly new Brenneke steps things up a few notches,
"The Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum"..... whew, what a name.

602gr hardened alloy
MV: 1650fps
ME: 3545 ft.lbs.

I haven't tested any. Not sure I have anything big enough. Have a friend with an old bulldozer sitting in the weeds, maybe that would stop one. :mrgreen:

 

[GunnyGene]

When slugs enter the penetration conversation, save all the older ones for small deer & such.

The fairly new Brenneke steps things up a few notches,
"The Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum"..... whew, what a name.

602gr hardened alloy
MV: 1650fps
ME: 3545 ft.lbs.

I haven't tested any. Not sure I have anything big enough. Have a friend with an old bulldozer sitting in the weeds, maybe that would stop one. :mrgreen:

And that's not even the big boy. :mrgreen:

3" Magnum Crush 656 grn

Velocity (fps) 1604
Energy (ft lbs) 3804

 

[MaxP]

If only energy was meaningful...... :mrgreen:

Big holes, penetration and placement.

 

[SteelBlue]

Well, after reading all the suggestions I've decided on the Redhawk 2.75" barrel. Reasons include smaller size that I am more likely to pack, availability of bear-worthy loads like Buffalo Bore and Cor-bond, reviews on the internet stating that the rounded handle is fairly comfortable on the hand, priced less than the Alaskan, looks nicer than the Alaskan. LGS has this gun available as well as the Alaskan in .44 and .454.

 

[whichwatch]

I se all kinds of caliber recommendations here, did no one see the original post in bold letters that he has decided on a .44 magnum.

 

[MaxP]

I se all kinds of caliber recommendations here, did no one see the original post in bold letters that he has decided on a .44 magnum.

I did, but still felt the .480 Ruger was a good recommendation as a backup. They just work without beating the crap out of the shooter.

 

[CraigC]

Bearing in mind that the thread was about handguns and the OP has already made his choice.

The penetration depth of .44 vs 12 gauge is largely due to the difference in frontal area. .44 vs .73 (approx).

Indeed, that and the nose shape. Sectional density is critically important and any 12ga slug is going to be decidedly lacking. Same goes for nose shape.

That said, I agree that neither can compare to a large caliber rifle.

The heavy sixgun slug compares favorably to a large caliber rifle. The 12ga slug does not.

But, the energy difference on target is huge, approx 900ft.lbs.

Energy is a meaningless number. It was never a proper gauge of a cartridge's effectiveness on game. It places too much importance on velocity (velocity is squared in the equation used to calculate it), too little on weight, none on diameter or bullet construction. It is particularly useless in comparing big bores. We'd all be better off if they quit printing that crap on the box.

And that's not even the big boy......3" Magnum Crush 656 grn

And with that you're finally up to the sectional density of a 250gr .45Colt. By the time you get to any meaningful weight in a 12ga slug, the recoil is so horrendous nobody wants to shoot it. I bought a Marlin .45/70 a few months ago for $500. It's a better tool for the job if you want a long gun.

 

[Don Lovel]

Friend of mine has his dad's LAR Grizzly in .50AE he carried when brown bear hunting Alaska this year in bandoleer holster. He has practiced with it a bunch. He told me that he would like to have a Ruger 4 5/8" custom single action in .50AE like Bowen has built as it would be easier for him to carry weight wise but recoil on the 4 5/8 single action in that caliber would be pretty big. He carries the Grizzly any time he is kayaking, fishing or back country hiking

 

[SteelBlue]

Well, I bought the Redhawk 2.75" as well as a Pelican case and some Buffalo Bore ammo. Now, TSA compliant and ready for Alaska.

 

[Sugar River]

I think you'll find TSA requires the ammo in a seperate container.

 

[Rumrunner]

Very nice package. HOWEVER, you need to practice with it as mush as possible between now and August. Start with a box of lighter loads. Winchester white box or Federal American Eagle either soft point or hollow point. Some of the cowboy loads are lighter as well. Shoot some of the Buffalo Bore after you get used to shooting the practice ammo. Good luck.

Simply Rugged makes an excellent pancake holster to carry on your hip. Ruger has a chest model on their site called the Alaskan. I have this one and have carried my 4.75" Super Redhawk and my Gp100 in it. Plus keeps a knife and few other things as well.

 

[SteelBlue]

Yes, I'll be at the range several times and will work up to the Buffalo Bore.