Basic understanding of firearms (pistols) right/wrong?

[cruzerlou]

If he's right in front of you say the gun's in his right hand pointed at your midsection with your left hand OPEN and as your whole body is moving to your left ,you YELL KEEHAAA!!! and with your left hand you palm the gun away from you to the right,then close your hand around the slide/cylinder with a firm grip,
and with your right hand your grabbing for his right hand at the wrist.

Remember at this point the gun will most likely go off but you've moved away from the gun and you've pushed the muzzle away from you also you twisting the gun in toward his torso,your using the bbl of the gun as a leaver to twist his wrist ,
now you have him in a reverse wrist lock . Remember to keep your feet OUTSIDE OF HIS like a boxer ,so that he can't make a strike to your tender parts.

At this point both of your hands are on his and your hands are between his right arm and his torso you step into him and shove forward with your hands ,drive your right shoulder into his right shoulder,this throws him off balance he has no choice but to let go of the gun .
Now you have the gun but the parties not over yet. All you have is the slide /bbl in your left hand grab the grip with your right hand and bring your left hand back ,now you have solid two hand hold on the gun .
AS SOON as you have control of the gun you quickly BACKUP!!!maybe even through in a knee strike with your right knee into his gonads or the out side of his thigh into the sciatic nerve with your left knee.
Keep backing up until your out of his arms reach .
When you do this right it's all one smooth move and it takes about 1/2 a second .
You can do the same move in reverse you just push the gun to the right and twist the gun to his outside and backwards ,when you do this move if his finger is in the trigger guard you just broke it .All the rest of the move stays the same ,you just go to his outside instead of inside .If your a little to his right go inside ,if your to his left go outside ,the point here is to move the weapon as little as possible to get your self out of the line of fire .the less you have to move the better .If moving to the left means you sweep your self with the weapon less move that way and vice -versa.

I'll try to take picks of this to show you ,
it's really easy to do and very hard to defend against .
No thug will ever expect this move ,unless your walking around in your Gee and then who would try to mug you anyway.


Disclaimer;I TAKE NO RESPONCEABILTY FOR ANY INJURY INCURED TO YOU OR YOUR ATTACKER IF YOU USE THIS MOVE .
I will post pics and explain each part of this disarming technique ,but it's up to you to go and get some training on your own .
Lou

 

[Snake45]

Lou, I don't think you should post pics of this.

In fact, IMHO, you shouldn't even post it verbally on the net. You never know who could be reading it. No sense giving the bad guys a weapon to use against the good guys. :? :evil:

 

[cruzerlou]

BTW if someone tries to use the one shown on the first post IT WILL GET THEM KILLED THATS WHY I POSTED THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT
Lou

 

[Mike J]

I had actually read that move described in a Mas Ayoob book. It does make more sense than what is shown in the pic at the beginning of this thread.

Why anyone would post what is shown in the OP's pic as a viable technique for the general public I don't understand.

 

[cruzerlou]

It can be done from behind or off to one side you just modify what I wrote ,like I said If anyone wants to learn it just P.M. me and I'll send you the text on how to do it right .
Lou

 

[NixieTube]

If the gun is in battery and the firing pin (it's a striker gun in this picture, but same thing applies, it's a firing pin) hits the primer the gun will go bang and the bullet will leave the barrel with everything it has. Revolver or not, striker fired or not, it doesn't matter. Whatever is in its way will get hit. The locked-breech mechanism of most of our semiautos, after all, is *designed* to lock the barrel and slide together until *after* the bullet has left the barrel and is on its way to the next zipcode. Maybe that's why the officer to the left is standing off to the shooter's right. He wouldn't want to be in front of that gun. In a real fight, he'd probably be dead. Also, in this situation the striker-fired pistol is actually more formidable because there is no hammer to block: the firing mechanism is internal, so even if he has his thumb around the back end of the gun, it will still fire. What is really being illustrated there is to prevent the *second* round from firing, maybe.

The gun may or may not cycle properly, but if there is a round in the chamber it will fire that first round, unless the slide is moved out of battery and the trigger is deactivated as a result.

If you're that close to the BG with the gun you're better off stabbing him in the eye sockets with your fingers or otherwise trying to get the gun down and off target than you are trying to get the gun itself to malfunction, IMO. If you've closed that much distance on the person holding the weapon, I agree with the martial arts guys here - you're better off disabling the shooter first, manually. Then pick up the gun he drops and shoot him with it.

 

[NixieTube]

As far as magazine disconnects are concerned (Oh Lord do I really want to wade into that swamp...yes, I suppose I'll have to) I can see them being beneficial in primarily non-combat situations. An armorer is collecting pistols and wants to guarantee that none of them can fire, and do so very easily, by just dropping the magazines. A person with a gun in their home wants an easy way to render the pistol safe without clearing it completely. For some people who want to render their guns un-fireable without having any worries about bullet setback problems, the magazine disconnect isn't a bad compromise. Finally -- perhaps, and very much a perhaps -- a police officer in a fight situation wants to deprive the BG of the use of the gun by dropping the magazine as a last resort. Drop magazine, drop gun, step back, go for backup weapon, shoot bad guy. Perhaps.

Has anyone seen or heard of any examples of the latter actually happening successfully in the real world? What other reasons for the magazine disconnect safety could there be?

I suppose there could be more legalistic reasons: in some states there are well-meaning bureaucrats who approve guns based on safety features they think are important. Many times those safety features are just additional hurdles for manufacturers to jump over that have nothing to do with actual operational safety and in fact may make the gun less safe for its intended purpose. They may or may not be correct but it is of little consequence to someone who owns the firearm in their state: modifying the gun could lead to trouble if that person ever has to defend themself in court. The people who write those laws are lawyers, not necessarily gun owners, and in many cases not people who have ever even fired a gun, much less understood their various differences in any comprehensive way. Alas, the world is a big place and people have all kinds of weird ideas when they control the Legislature. It has ever been thus.

 

[cruzerlou]

Some folks here are talking about using their maetail arts to take the B.G.
down and then take the gun from them .This if falwled thinking .First you MUST control the weapon ,[gun,knife ,pipe baseball bat whatever ].If you use some move and take them down and then go after the weapon they can STILL USE IT ON YOU!!!!!! .

You disarm them first and then take them down .The disarming moves I teach do both at the same time ,you just go for the weapon first as your taking them down .Also once disarmed and down their no longer a threat to you and by law you can do no further harm to them .If you do now YOUR THE AGGRESSOR .If you disarm them take them down and they aptempt to contenue to fight and regain control of the weapon ,your life is still in danger and you can act accordinily.


If you do some slick move and disarm them FIRST and them take them down with a techqnicque that disables them too [not nessararly kill them]
you have won the battle .My point is the weapon is the greater of the two dangers and you ALYWAY go after the greatest danger first .


If you master a disarming tecqunicque and snach the weapon from them ,most will give up the fight [these guys just want your money and will run away, it ain't worth them getting hurt over ].If they don't it's clear their intent is to kill you anyway so you need empty hand skills that will drop them in there tracks and that they just can't jump back up from .

.If you get into a wrestling match with them over the weapon on the ground your in just as much danger as you were standing face to face with them .GET RID OF THE WEAPON FIRST and then take them down hard and do enough dammage to them that they won't want to tangle with you again and the'll still be laying there when Law Enforcement shows up.

Take my words for what you think there worth ,but I ask you ,to talk to other L.E.O.'s here and the'll tell you the same thing.
Never give the bad guy a frrst chance much less a second chance .Hurt him bad enough the first time that he won't want a second time .
Lou

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Ah, c'mon: I want to see the Jackie Chan move in real life, where he takes the top end off the Beretta that's trained on him.

-- Sam

 

[Slanteyedshootist]

Didn't Berettas used to diassemble themselves?

 

[Kraut]

By the way, I found the source again:

http://www.editinternational.com/print.php?id=47a77861ab685

 

[Spike]

Didn't Berettas used to diassemble themselves?

Lol! :lol:

By the way, I found the source again:

http://www.editinternational.com/print.php?id=47a77861ab685

Yeah, I was looking at that last night, K. Googled 'Philbrick'. Wonderful! They're teaching folks (target audience: HS students?) how to wade into advanced CQC in a school shooting... Outstanding.

Hm. Well, not to wade into any current alleged flamefest which I can neither confirm nor deny may or may not exist... (ahe-ahem)... I'm sure there are some folks here who could kill a man several different ways with their little finger (me, I'm prolly USC and in search of a paddle if someone's got a righteous drop on me), but it's the whole tone of the "instruction" that concerns me.

It's one thing to advertise advanced CQC framed in a body of escalated training. It's another matter to be tossing out little nuggets out of context. At best it amounts to a parlor trick or two that might come in handy if all the planets and stars align in the proper azimuth under the correct zodiac sign on the fifth Tuesday of a month beginning with the letter 'F'...

At worst -- it's been said -- ita getcha kilt.

-S

 

[DGW1949]

Lou, I don't think you should post pics of this.

In fact, IMHO, you shouldn't even post it verbally on the net. You never know who could be reading it. No sense giving the bad guys a weapon to use against the good guys. :? :evil:

Hard core, carrer-type criminals already know it. I've seen footage from security cameras that show them practicing such things with each other on the prison yard during excercize-time. Some are real-good at snatching guns from holsters too.

Just sayin'.

DGW

 

[cruzerlou]

YeaDWG ,
we saw those films in the academy and some of those convicts were GOOD at snatching guns .from your hand and from level3 retention holsters .But like I said thats why I posted the right way to snach a weapon away from someone ,now if you stop and thingh about what you have to do to make this move you can figuer out the counter move ,you just do the same thing to them .when someone grabs your bbl you just grab the bbl with yout weak hand point the gun back at their torso and FIRE!!!.
Lou

 

[cruzerlou]

First off,lets set the record stright

[/quote]Spike wrote Hm. Well, not to wade into any current alleged flamefest which I can neither confirm nor deny may or may not exist... (ahe-ahem)... I'm sure there are some folks here who could kill a man several different ways with their little finger (me, I'm prolly USC and in search of a paddle if someone's got a righteous drop on me), but it's the whole tone of the "instruction" that concerns me.

It's one thing to advertise advanced CQC framed in a body of escalated training. It's another matter to be tossing out little nuggets out of context. At best it amounts to a parlor trick or two that might come in handy if all the planets and stars align in the proper azimuth under the correct zodiac sign on the fifth Tuesday of a month beginning with the letter 'F'...

At worst -- it's been said -- ita getcha kilt.

I have never clamed to be able to kill a man with my little finger ,but I have had extencive martail arts training in americian karakie,akiduo, muy -ti ,tak wan do, judo,juditso, krav megra and good old fashioned Marine corps self defence and bladecraft .So I AM NOT AN INTERNET CAMMANDO
I am a formaly trained martail artist ,And a Professenial Law Enforcement Officer

Second,
quote="Mike J"]I had actually read that move described in a Mas Ayoob book. It does make more sense than what is shown in the pic at the beginning of this thread.


first off the technique in the original post it is a viably disarming technique but is not the technique I described ,but without a throurouh explaination of how to use it is very iresponceable . It is an advanced Akidio disarming technique that takes LOTS OF PRATICE TO MASTER

And Mike the move in the original post is one of Ayoobs books but thats not the one I described or where I learned it .I was tought by a very high level SIN CI .Ayoob holds a high belt in Akidio and many of the moves he describes are Akidio moves ,but he tells you flat out [as I did]
that trying to do these techniques without propre training and pratice will backfire on you and get you hurt YOU JUST CAN'T READ ABOUT THEM AND THINK YOU CAN USE THESE ON SOMEONE .
Thats why I wrote the whole thing out and offerd to post step by step pics of the move so you and a partner could learn the right way to do this .
We use lots of Akidio techniques in Law Enforcement because this style of fighting uses your opentents own weight ,momentium and stringth aganist them and will take them down with out doing peramament damage .
The harder they fight a hold the more it hurts them .Most will give up before they really get hurt ,if they don't you just follow through with the technique your using and they dislocate or break there own bone .
I'll say it one last time

.YOU MUST GO AND GET FORMAL TRAINING BEFORE TRING TO USE ANY TYPE OF MARTAIL ART ON AN ADVERSARY + YOU MUST PRATICE THESE TECKNIQUES OFTEN AND MASTER THEM BY DOING THIS YOU LEARN THE RIGHT WAY TO USE THEM ,BUT YOU ALSO LEARN THE COUNTER MOVES , SO IF SOMEONE KNOWS A COUNTER TO WHAT YOUR DIONG TO THEM YOU INSTINCTIVELY GO TO ANOTHER TECHNIQUE .DO THIS NOT AND YOU WILL GET HURT OR KILLED .

Just for the record ,I don't just throw tidbits out there here on the forum or in person .
If I disclose a technique I give a full comprehincive discription of how it's done and offer to post step by step pictures of how to use it correctly .Also I stress that these techniques should only be used in self defence,even if you should have to be the first to strike. Anything else would go aganist the whole pholosiply of martail arts to begin with .If I can't teach you the right way ,I won't teach you at all .
Let it not be said of me to throw someone here or anywhere a tidbit and encourage them to use it with out proper training ang get them hurt .
Lou
P.S. As to the gun going off as long as the slide is fully in battery the gun WILL FIRE no matter how tight of a hold you have on the slide .It may very well stovepipe of otherwise ftf not letting them get off a second shot but NEVER COUNT ON IT .As far as revolvers go if you have a thght enough grip on the gun the cylender may not rotate causing the gun not to fire ,but if your grip slips or if you never really had a good grip to start with the gun WILL FIRE..
But if the gun is cocked ,you could lock the cylender in a bench vise and it won't matter THE GUN WILL FIRE .
NEVER COUNT ON YOUR GRIPING AN ATTACKERS GUN THAT IT WON'T FIRE . Thats why gaining control of the gun quickly and completely is of the upmont imporantance . GET IT AWAY FROM THEM A.S.A.P.

 

[Sonnytoo]

It's a matter of retracting the slide enough, maybe no more than 1/8" to make the gun incapable of firing.
S2

 

[cruzerlou]

Thats kinda hard to do when your wrlestling someone for a gun so they won't kill you with it :shock: :lol:
Lou

 

[cruzerlou]

DWG,wrote "
Disclaimer:
I have encountered one man who was so strong that it was impossable to bend his wrist or elbow, even when using my body weight and the gun barrel for leverage. He also knew the counter-moves to maintain control of the situation no matter what I tried. Luckily, he weren't a bad guy. He was brought in by one of my instructors just to show me that nothing is 100% sure to work every time.
But them clowns in the OP's example?....that kinda crap is sure to get ya kilt."

Thats why having the other skills are so inportaint ,whnn you can't bend his wrist ,now it's time for a solid heel strike to the side of his knee ,causing it to bend in a way God never intended it to SIDEWAYS !!!!!! ,HE WILL GO DOWN IF TOU BREAK HIS KNEE now you can bend that wrist cause all he's thinking about is his knee .
Lou