ATF for lube?

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Any good for a gun oil?

 

[Snake45]

Never used it myself, but I have read the posts of many people who have on this and other forums. To a man they've had good results with it and I can't recall reading anything negative. Some blend it with some other stuff to make a concoction called "Fred's Red" or something of the sort. I wouldn't hesitate to try it if the situation presented itself.

 

[TDF]

I alway's heard it called Ed's Red, but there may have been a Fred involved.

http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmj ... ds_red.htm

TDF

 

[Snake45]

I think you're right about it being Ed, not Fred. I did remember that it rhymed. :wink:

 

[Axehandle]

Got the "Red Oil" recipe from a NGMTU gunsmith and master class shooter a good 30 years ago... It explicitly called out type F transmission fluid... Seems like 20 Wt nondetergent motor oil, STP, and Hoppe's #9... It made a LOT! Still have a quart on the shelf...

 

[Yosemite Sam]

IMO, Ed's Red is more of a cleaner and solvent than a lube. If you follow the recipe it's got kerosene and acetone in it; Those are going to break up the lubrication properties of the ATF component. I do use the stuff, but as a cleaner, and it's a pretty good one.

I've read some articles that say ATF by itself is an excellent lube and protectant, and is thick enough not to flow off the surface. Better than straight motor oil, in any case. (Don't ask me why, I'm not a chemist, but it has to do with the strength of long chain molecules.)

Despite that, when I want to lube "on the cheap" I use Mobil-1 motor oil. 15w-50. It has no scent and is virtually inert; ATF stinks to high heaven. Since I sometimes clean my guns at the kitchen table I'd rather not my house smell like a transmission shop.

I've also found that Mobil-1 grease is quite good, and quite cheap compared to $7 for a 1-oz tube of most "gun lubes".

There are several well written papers out there on the subject. A couple written by industry people who point out that there is nothing special about "gun" lube, and that good lubricants are good lubricants. Some have properties that will aid long term storage or protection, but really there's not a lot of sense in spending huge amounts of money on boutique cleaning aids.

Then again I've got a cabinet full of cleaners and lubes that I've just "had to try"... My latest favorite is Ballistol.

-- Sam

ETA: And if you want the ultimate in silly, you can buy pre-made Ed's Red from Brownells. Yep, you too can buy a product whose whole point was to be a homebrew remedy... ($8/4oz retail. I think you can make 2 gallons of ER for $8...)

 

[revhigh]

I'll stick with Mobil 1 ... a PROVEN lubricant.

REV

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I have used ATF as an after-run oil in model airplane engines. It keeps then well lubed and they won't seize-up after years in storage. I imagine it would work the same for a gun, but I have not tried it. I will stick with Rem Oil in the spray can. I can get small amounts into small openings with the little spray tube.

...Jimbo

 

[AzRebel]

I've used all kinds of different lubes over the years.

Common type "gun lubes", ATF, motor oil, tube type grease, wheel bearing grease, tractor hydraulic fluid, and so forth.

The slickest is, IMO, tractor hydraulic fluid. It stinks worse'n ATF. My brother dropped a leatherman in accidently one day, and I'm not sure if he ever got it to stay closed right after that.

These days, for quality lube on my guns, I just use straight run ATF. Seems to do the job well enough so that my guns run smoothly, and that's all I need. I apply it with a Q-tip, and that seems to work pretty well.

Daryl

 

[don44]

A very interesting topic.

 

[Pal Val]

I keep one thing in mind when cleaning and lubricating my hunting guns - smell. Anything with a strong chemical odor will alert game of my presence way too early.

Also, some pretoleum-based products attack the fibers in wood. That's why I use oil sparingly, and store my rifles muzzle-down.

 

[AzRebel]

I keep one thing in mind when cleaning and lubricating my hunting guns - smell. Anything with a strong chemical odor will alert game of my presence way too early.

I used to worry a lot about scent. The trouble is, no matter how much I try to eliminate it, if a deer or coyote gets downwind, they still smell me and they're gone.

So I pay more attention to which way it's blowing, use it to my advantage, and don't worry about it too much.

I actually can't smell the ATF on my guns within a day or two after applying it. Seems to go away pretty fast.

Daryl

 

[CanonLyles]

The only 2 problems I could see coming from using ATF on guns are removing blue finish and staining polymer/synthethic frames and stocks. I'm doubting, especially since nobody mentioned it, that it takes the blue off. But, what about poly frames?

 

[WESHOOT2]

I have a hazy memory (fantasy?) of a Ruger revolver owners manual recommending Breakfree CLP.

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

Marvel Mystery Oil.............Works in gas and works in the crankcase. I have seen an engine run for hours, crankcase drained, no plug. Engine had been treated with MMO. I have used it for years.Cars and guns...........Of course, it is hard on skin. Most lubes are, regardless of what the print sez. If a lube will clean and permeate metal surfaces, it will screw with your epidermis and dermis, I guarantee it.........Buy some rubber gloves and stop letting this material soak into your body...............This is some of the best advise you will ever receive. 8)

 

[Yosemite Sam]

The only 2 problems I could see coming from using ATF on guns are removing blue finish and staining polymer/synthethic frames and stocks. I'm doubting, especially since nobody mentioned it, that it takes the blue off. But, what about poly frames?

Not a problem that I've experienced.

Now acetone and poly frames may not get along so well together, and not all gun polymers are the same. Be wary of using Ed's Red on a plastic gun.

-- Sam

 

[ra]

Seems that I read some where that Kroil had a lot of ingrediants in common with ATF, I don't know if this is true or not.

ra

 

[56-210]

Interesting read...


http://grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

 

[CraigC]

No. Why? Gun oil is cheap and plentiful and it was formulated for guns. With anything else there are far too many unknowns. I don't particularly want the red dyed ATF anywhere near any of my "white" grips, of which there are many.

Tests have shown that Mobile 1 provides very, very minimal protection against corrosion.

 

[WESHOOT2]

I've been pretty impressed with BreakFree CLP at -20F, or 92F.
I've been pretty impressed with Tetragun Grease under those conditions, too.

I can afford them :roll:

 

[cas6969]

Tests have shown that Mobile 1 provides very, very minimal protection against corrosion.

That may be true.

But tests have shown me... very little. If you search online you will find 4-5 independent gun oil corrosion tests, pretty much all of them in contradiction with one another. So who knows.


Personally I use many different products, some expensive, some "cheap". What I use is usually depends on what gun it is.

 

[J Miller]

ATF is harmless to quality plastics. If you've ever taken a transmission apart there are a bunch of plastic parts in the new ones.

I've never used ATF though, and I've got a bunch of it in the garage. Both Type F and Dextron III.

Joe

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I've been pretty impressed with BreakFree CLP at -20F, or 92F.
I've been pretty impressed with Tetragun Grease under those conditions, too.

I can afford them :roll:

I can afford them too, which would explain how I happened to be able to try a bunch of different ones. Heck, I can't figure out one particular gun I want to shoot all the time, why should I be able to pick out a favorite lube? FWIW, I like Tetra Grease, too.

No. Why? Gun oil is cheap and plentiful and it was formulated for guns. With anything else there are far too many unknowns. I don't particularly want the red dyed ATF anywhere near any of my "white" grips, of which there are many.

Tests have shown that Mobile 1 provides very, very minimal protection against corrosion.

• Lubrication and corrosion protection are two vastly different things.
• "Formulated for guns"; As the Grant Cunningham article (and other papers I've read on lubes) mentioned, there's nothing special about "gun lube" and nothing new under the sun.
• As cas pointed out, there is a lot of conflicting "test" data out there.
• $8 for 4oz of product isn't cheap. Admittedly, it ain't gonna break me, but it's the principle.

I can certainly understand not wanting to use ATF because of the potential for staining, or the smell, but from my reading it is as good a lubricant as anything out there.

One of the problems I see is that CLPs, like many "combination" products, are good at what they do, but using individual, purpose-specific products produces better results. For instance, Eezox is a great protectant, but is not the best lube, from what I've read.

Honestly, I'm plenty happy with Gunzilla, and now Ballistol. However, I like the idea of alternative products, especially simple/basic ones. One thing I've learned during 50 years as a consumer: You never know when they'll decide to stop making your favorite boutique product.

-- Sam

 

[CraigC]

Lubrication and corrosion protection are two vastly different things.

Yes, they are. I expect my gun oil to do both. If all I need is lube, grease is probably a better solution.

[*]As cas pointed out, there is a lot of conflicting "test" data out there.

True, you can interpret how you wish. The salt spray tests that I've seen show that Mobile 1 is a poor protectant against corrosion compared to CLP. Motor oil is also way too thick for most firearms-related purposes.

[*]$8 for 4oz of product isn't cheap. Admittedly, it ain't gonna break me, but it's the principle.

It is cheap. Dirt cheap. Cheaper than dirt. When a 4oz bottle of Breakfree and a couple small cans of RemOil last me for several years, protecting a collection of five or six dozen guns, it IS dirt cheap. I can't even express how completely insigificant $8 is in maintaining $50,000 worth of guns. Squalling about the cost of gun oil and using something intended for another purpose because it saves you a few dollars over the course of several years is about like buying a brand new, fully engraved $4000 single action and toting it in an Uncle Mike's nylon holster.

I can certainly understand not wanting to use ATF because of the potential for staining, or the smell, but from my reading it is as good a lubricant as anything out there.

Why use it if it's "just as good" but NOT better???

...using individual, purpose-specific products produces better results.

Is it better or is it just as good? Who says it's "better"? What tests have been conducted? No matter how many times this discussion comes up, there has never been any factual data put up that supports anything being "better". While there has been plenty to suggest that motor oil is NOT better. If you really engage your brain, you'd realize that motor oil and gun oil are two completely different purposes. One is designed to operate at hundreds of degrees in an enclosed environment, under pressure and has lots of added detergents that WE HAVE NO IDEA how will effect a firearm's materials, finishes and the shooter.


In other words, who can prove unequivocably that motor oil or ATF is better for guns? Why should I be willing to stake my $50,000 collection based on the ramblings of internet lore that has absolutely no factual data to support it? Whose door can I knock on when my guns rust or my grips get stained because I used something 'they' recommended???

 

[COR]

I use an oily rag on my guns...I use FP-10 and REM Oil on it....I use LBT blue soft for my cast bullets and Liquid Alox. I use ATF fluid in my transmission.

You guys are oiling and cleaning your guns way too much if you really care.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Craig, perhaps you need to take a little breather. When you start using phrases such as "engage your brain" you lose all respect.

It's been fun.

-- Sam

 

[WESHOOT2]

I have a bench-top full of cleaning, lubricating, and corrosion-fighting products.
Some are 30 yrs old.

But I use BreakFree CLP and cheap brake cleaner and WD40 and (the banned) Prolix and RB17 and Tetragun Grease and Oil and Corrosion X and S&W Friction Block.
Mostly.
But dammit I refuse to engage my brain; it's resting.......


ps It's still fun

 

[WESHOOT2]

Oh., I may test TW-25.

 

[CraigC]

Why was my last post deleted???

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Getting past the Ford-Chevy stuff and going back to the OP's question:

I've never used straight ATF as a gun lube.

However, the most common recipe I've seen for Ed's Red shows equal parts ATF, kerosene, mineral spirits, and acetone. In an early article about the stuff, Ed Harris, for whom the mixture's named, suggested mixing the ATF and kerosene first, then siphoning a little off to use as a general purpose lube, before adding the other ingredients.

I've got a tiny container of that 50-50 ATF-kero blend on the bench right now. Still haven't tried it for a lube, but it makes good honing oil when sharpening knives! It's obviously a bit lighter than straight ATF, but also has a lot less of the strong smell.

Rick C