.45 ACP/LC Redhawk no BS range report

[mr.deerstalker]

Wayno...im not picking a fight with anyone. but simply pointing the facts as history shows is correct. nothing more. nothing less. its an adopted name or nickname as you call it. as the years go by, things change. im not saying its not for the better, its just not historicaly correct. but the historical fact is the 45 long colt was never developed. you can put lipstick on a pig, its still just a pig. now with that being said: im sure there a whole of dummies out breathlessly waiting on Rugers NEW convertible 45 Colt ! it comes with an additional 45 Long Colt cylinder. you know, so you don't mix up your ammo! or better yet Rugers NEW Ultimate 45 Convertible, come with 45 Colt, 45 Long Colt and a 45 ACP. you need solutions, come to me! (sarcastic added) FNC

 

[mr.deerstalker]

Making a polite side note, historical correction etc is a whole different animal than these people like this guy who come out of the woodwork being a about it then going on some weird sidebar about cutting off Johnsons and .46 Colt

Some people are historically minded and intelligent, some are just weirdos

i like that. spot on...

 

[Stantheman1986]

Ya know, I see this silliness differently.

The members of this forum used to be much more of the collector community than it is now. There are and have been some extremely knowledgeable collectors here. As collectors, we abhor incorrect names of just about anything. People incorrectly name a firearm, for instance, the incorrect identification takes hold, and then somebody advertises a gun as a certain model, then we discover it's not that model at all. But they argue, yes their Standard Auto is a Mark I . Well, no it's not.

Researching the .45 Colt, the Long nickname was added by the troops to help avoid confusion. Enough folks heard this nickname for enough years, and it stuck. It's still incorrect, but it's been repeated enough times that folks don't know that it's still wrong. The shooting community just kind've rolled with it.

In gun stores especially, the employee staff is now too often uneducated or inexperienced about guns, cartridges, and all their history. I can very well imagine an also uneducated or inexperienced shooter stopping in to buy some .45 Long Colt, and the employee says no, all we have is regular .45 Colt, And the shooter walks away, stopping at another gun store. He may get lucky, and somebody will explain it to him.

I also cringe, maybe just a little, every time I hear .45LC, but I don't push the issue. That's an issue I will lose. Improper nicknames are also applied to many of our Ruger firearms. Old Model Vaquero and PC9 to describe the new PCC, are just two more examples. Seems innocuous enough, but recently when I needed a part for my old PC9, Ruger insisted there was no such part associated with the PC9, when actually they were looking at a parts diagram for the PCC. Even they are calling the newer PCC a PC9. And the folks at Ruger, also inexperienced, can't understand a difference.

So if a feller makes an enemy to prove he is correct, that is sad. I will still stick to the original terminology. And I will also listen to somebody explaining historical differences.


Oh...One last thing...
This discussion has been repeated for so many decades, it's become a point of humor. In jest, it seems we're expected to correct somebody using the .45LC term. Folks will even say .45LC, just to see if the listener is paying attention.












..

How many people do you honestly feel need to be "corrected" when they call a .45 Colt a .45 Long Colt?

Is it really a "point of jest?" Among who ? I'm genuinely curious, who is really that concerned? Are you really sitting around with your gun buddies all like "some rube at the range called his Vaquero a .45 Long Colt hahhawhaw" probably not

How many people have been turned away at a gun shop over the last 100 years for asking for .45 Long Colt? Probably 0

.45 "Long" Colt was used to differentiate it from Short Colt, we're going back to the 1870s here. By this point, it's pretty much an alternate name for this round. As I showed, the Colt website shows a .45 Long Colt for the 1873. If Colt themselves uses it , I think it's ok......but I get it, it's fun to Gatekeep your little aspect of the shooting world. The Gatekeeping is strong with this topic.

Original Civil War writings refer to revolvers as "pistols" yet the nomenclature police would be all over you for calling a Vaquero a Pistol today. If it was ok when these guns were originally used, how is it not "correct " now? Enlighten us.

If a cow puncher walked into a store in 1878 and asked for the .45 Long Colt , or if a Cavalryman referred to the round as the Long Colt I'm pretty sure it's still correct. You're not special, people don't have to use terminology because you feel it's correct, especially if the terminology is not wrong.

Is .38 Special, .38 Smith&Wesson Special or is calling it .38 Special ok still? Are people gritting their teeth if you don't put the Smith & Wesson in there ?

Shooters and gun enthusiasts, we really do eat our own don't we.

 

[Stantheman1986]

Wayno...im not picking a fight with anyone. but simply pointing the facts as history shows is correct. nothing more. nothing less. its an adopted name or nickname as you call it. as the years go by, things change. im not saying its not for the better, its just not historicaly correct. but the historical fact is the 45 long colt was never developed. you can put lipstick on a pig, its still just a pig. now with that being said: im sure there a whole of dummies out breathlessly waiting on Rugers NEW convertible 45 Colt ! it comes with an additional 45 Long Colt cylinder. you know, so you don't mix up your ammo! or better yet Rugers NEW Ultimate 45 Convertible, come with 45 Colt, 45 Long Colt and a 45 ACP. you need solutions, come to me! (sarcastic added) FNC

Ok man you're absolutely right. I didn't read 90% of this word salad but if we agree that you're correct can we all move on with our day

I have learned at this stage of life, when you find yourself in a debate in which no end is in sight, let the other guy be right

Or like the other old saying....

 

[Cyrus]

So, let's not take the range report seriously because he (gulp) called it a Long Colt. But let's take your posts seriously with your terrible grammar and punctuation. Know your grammar and punctuation sir!

 

[hittman]

Yeah, there's plenty of miscommunication and mis-labeling in the Ruger world.
Like the "flattop" OM Single Sixes.
Or the "baby Vaquero" Single Six as some call them.
OM Vaquero's.
Most 2.75 inch Speed Six's are labeled as 3 inch.
Oh, and if I "Bing" 45 Long Colt, all I get is 45 Colt.
No mention of "long" on Wiki but Lord knows Wiki been wrong before. LOL.
Maybe Colt don't care WHAT you call it as long as you BUY it!

Anywho ….. we're all in this together and yes, proper ID is somewhat vital to keep things accurate and some are always gonna feel like they were nit-picked.

 

[eveled]

Some nits shouldn't be picked.

In this case the extra descriptive word "Long" is being used to make certain you realize he is not talking about the ACP round.

It is adding clarity, not confusion, hence it is improving understanding and safety

When an inaccurate statement leads to confusion and an unsafe situation. Then it should be called out.

 

[Stantheman1986]

So, let's not take the range report seriously because he (gulp) called it a Long Colt. But let's take your posts seriously with your terrible grammar and punctuation. Know your grammar and punctuation sir!

Thank You for saying it so I didn't have to

 

[James also]

View attachment 28183

The prerequisite "Welllll Aycktuallly " Fudd is here

View attachment 28184

Take it up with the ammo companies pal , maybe you can find a 9mm Parabellum guy who feels 9mm Luger "is incorrect" to join forces with

I've seen similar boxes, Agree!

 

[Stantheman1986]

The history of different cartridges can be real interesting! For some reason, the original name for the .375 H&H got stuck in my memory, years ago - .375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express (IIRC ;^). The name is about as long as the cartridge case, and (for me at least) kind of 'rolls off the tongue'! But if I actually want to communicate with anyone, I just call it the .375 H&H, and people understand what I'm saying.

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, IIRC, not-picking-a-fight, etc., etc.

Lots of cartridges have alternative names, depending on where you're at or who you're talking to. .380 has at least 3 other names, off the top of my head, 9mm Kurz, 9x17, etc.

45-70, apparently if the box says "Gov't" it's safe for Trapdoors.

People who say their Garand is 30-06 often get corrected , it's ".30 caliber" so on and so forth

99% of people involved with shooting know the difference

 

[Stantheman1986]

Some nits shouldn't be picked.

In this case the extra descriptive word "Long" is being used to make certain you realize he is not talking about the ACP round.

It is adding clarity, not confusion, hence it is improving understanding and safety

When an inaccurate statement leads to confusion and an unsafe situation. Then it should be called out.

I agree 100%, the only time people should be "called out" is when they're telling people something weird like , they found an old .38 Long Colt revolver at a gun shop and the gun shop guy said to go ahead and use .38 Special.

Otherwise, if people are just talking about guns, using some alternative terminology, it's ok, just let it go

 

[Stantheman1986]

The Long & the Short of the .45 Colt By: Jim Taylor:

The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Elmer Keith, Sixguns, page 285)...

If it's good enough for Elmer , it's good enough for me

 

[Hvymax]

just an adopted name change from the 19th century 45 Colt. more then likely from the shorter 45ACP developed in the early 20th century. (thus calling the longer 45 Colt, long colt) still boils down all development of the "now" 45LC all leads back to the 45 Colt. they are one and the same. just a name change. for what ever reason, ill presume th

He must have missed the memo 115 years ago.

 

[Hvymax]

I'd really like to see how it shoots with Ruger level loads in it!

 

[Stantheman1986]

I'd really like to see how it shoots with Ruger level loads in it!

It probably shoots like a laser with the Ruger/Freedom Arms only .45 LC loads

Ironically, I put a box of Fiocchi .45 Short Colt through it and it was super accurate.

 

[outlaw_dogboy]

What @Far North Collector is saying makes sense to me. What we now call 45LC was developed as just 45 Colt. There were initially no other options. Then came the 45 S&W Schofield (or something like that). Then apparently there was a 45 Gov't developed just before/during/around WWI, and it was shorter than the 45 Colt, but wasn't a 45 S&W. And the 45 ACP came along around then (is that Automatic Colt Pistol, or Automatic Centerfire Pistol?). So now you've got four completely different 45 cartridges, with one of them being nothing more (or less?) than a 45 Short. Colt. Uh... yeah. It seems natural to me, then, for the 45 Colt name to have morphed into the 45 LC to help avoid confusion. But it was still developed as the 45 Colt. And 45 Long Colt rolls off the tongue much easier than "45 Not-Short Colt."

There is a specific word or two-word term for when an object's originally simpler name morphs into a different, longer name because of the development of a new similar object. But I'm to old and stupid to ever be able to remember what that's called. But the best example I've ever known is the need to stress to people that a Vaquero is actually an Old Vaquero, because of the development of smaller New Vaquero, which will (probably? certainly?) blow up if fed Ruger only loads, whereas the Vaquero ("Old Vaquero") won't. Blow up, that is. At least not immediately. If ever.

And forgive me if the order, or some of the exact terminology, of the various 45's I mention above were incorrect. But feel free to correct me. Just don't yell at me.

 

[Hvymax]

What @Far North Collector is saying makes sense to me. What we now call 45LC was developed as just 45 Colt. There were initially no other options. Then came the 45 S&W Schofield (or something like that). Then apparently there was a 45 Gov't developed just before/during/around WWI, and it was shorter than the 45 Colt, but wasn't a 45 S&W. And the 45 ACP came along around then (is that Automatic Colt Pistol, or Automatic Centerfire Pistol?). So now you've got four completely different 45 cartridges, with one of them being nothing more (or less?) than a 45 Short. Colt. Uh... yeah. It seems natural to me, then, for the 45 Colt name to have morphed into the 45 LC to help avoid confusion.

It's the Colt longer than short, acp and S&W

 

[Stantheman1986]

What @Far North Collector is saying makes sense to me. What we now call 45LC was developed as just 45 Colt. There were initially no other options. Then came the 45 S&W Schofield (or something like that). Then apparently there was a 45 Gov't developed just before/during/around WWI, and it was shorter than the 45 Colt, but wasn't a 45 S&W. And the 45 ACP came along around then (is that Automatic Colt Pistol, or Automatic Centerfire Pistol?). So now you've got four completely different 45 cartridges, with one of them being nothing more (or less?) than a 45 Short. Colt. Uh... yeah. It seems natural to me, then, for the 45 Colt name to have morphed into the 45 LC to help avoid confusion. But it was still developed as the 45 Colt. And 45 Long Colt rolls off the tongue much easier than "45 Not-Short Colt."

The Long and the Short of it is, there existed a .45 Short Colt that was available back in the original period. There was also something called a .450 Colt-.450 Adams- .450 Corto that could be used in guns chambered in .45 Colt . I've fired .450 in my Redhawk

Things got confusing back then so soldiers and civilians began to just call the .45 Colt the "Long Colt" and the name stuck

So, to further delve into this rabbit hole, I used the period correct term to say that my Redhawk is chambered in .45 Long Colt / .45 ACP because, it can accept the Long Colt.

To be honest I've had heard this Far North Collector and been interested if he came in looking add historical flavor and info instead of just being a complete d--k about it, and human nature being what it is , if someone drops into a convo being a d--k ,they are not going to be "heard" it will just lead to arguing. I can't imagine this man speaks this way to people in the real world but the internet is a way for some people to release their anger I guess.

Colt called it .45 Colt when the round was developed for the 1873 Model P, if I call it a Peacemaker I'm sure some d-ck will jump all over me but yes, it was .45 Colt then it became known as the Long Colt, which was followed by rounds like .38 Long Colt , .41 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt etc etc

Terminology and verbiage varies and flexes through the years, the Colt Navy was supposed to be the "Ranger" when Colt designed it but few people use that and ,the Naval scene caused people to call it the Colt Navy. So you'd have to call it the .36 Ranger belt revolver to be correct. But people called them "pistols" back then, but don't let a Fudd purist hear you call a revolver a "pistol ".

My point is, these debates are probably 100+ years old and people just enjoy fighting about this stuff. A cowboy walked into a trading post in 1880 and asked for the Long .45 Colts to make it easier on the clerk and he received a box of .45 Colt , the long ones, not the shorts, but guys here will claim you'll get laughed out of a gunshop for asking for .45 Long Colt, apparently.

After we're all dead there will probably be some other people arguing over this same crap

 

[hittman]

Good timing to end the arguing ……