.44 Special Flattop

[Montelores]

Well, I don't own a .44 anything, but my mind keeps returning to the .44 Special Blackhawk.

I don't particularly desire a new caliber, but I'm really curious about these Rugers.

If anyone would like to share their experiences, I'm all ears. Frame size, barrel length, anything.

And, yes, I've performed a search on the topic.

Thanks very much -

Monty

 

[gak]

My .44s are New Vaqueros--confusingly labeled just Vaquero on the frame--but the same gun operationally and frame size, except the stock hammer and more limited barrel lengths on the NVs. All I can say is great on everything common between the two guns, which is to say 95%. I changed the NV hammer to a SBH hammer and like it much better. (Originally planned to swap out the hammer from an old Vaquero/NM Blackhawk--virtually same as your mentioned Flattop's--but the SBH became available to me...and now as a bonus it's a good match in basic feel to my Sheriff and Montado). Now that I've got the NV .44 in its two barrel lengths, a 5.5" Flattop is beckoning me too--"just because."

EDIT: the gripframe and/or grip panels may or may not be to your liking...either as to the feel of the aggressive checkering or ultraslim--almost "Gunfighter" profile. If only the checkering bothers, it can be "tamed" by smoothing with some 000 wool. Otherwise, several great gripmakers here would be happy to make a nice set of grips easily solving texture, size or aesthetic concerns. The same basic "hard rubber" (plastic) panels are also stock now on most large frame NM Blackhawks, but that gun's gripframe itself is still wider IIRC. Overall effect = slimmer than before but still fatter than these new Flattops or New Vaqueros.

 

[Montelores]

Thanks, gak, for your experiences.

I've looked at the Vaqueros, and they are very appealing. Lots of choices.

I do like the shorter barrel length, but the 5.5" also makes sense - I'm really just a plinker and target shooter. That's where I'm leaning.

How well are the sights regulated on your Vaqueros?

Monty

 

[gak]

Thanks, gak, for your experiences.

I've looked at the Vaqueros, and they are very appealing. Lots of choices.

I do like the shorter barrel length, but the 5.5" also makes sense - I'm really just a plinker and target shooter. That's where I'm leaning.

How well are the sights regulated on your Vaqueros?

Monty

I've lucked out--according to some--to date pretty much poa 25 yds with 200 gr rnfps. This is both Sheriff and 4-5/8" amazingly enough. YMMV. I will say mine are meant mostly as plinkers, trail and camp guns--where "minute of critter" suffices--and to me excel at that. I've just always been mostly a fixed sight sort--love the smooth lines. But a man's got to know his (gun's) limitations So, if you"re doing a lot of "more formal" target work or contemplating hunting, I'd go with the adjustable Flattops.

 

[Dale53]

I have a .44 Lipsey Special (blued 5½" model) and a TALO .44 Special Flattop (SS 4 5/8" barrel).

These are two of the best revolvers that Ruger has built!

They shoot extremely well with my cast bullets (all that they will ever see) and are well made, well finished, and quite accurate (NRA Bullseye Accurate).

Dale53

 

[Montelores]

Thanks again, gak.

I'm sort of stuck on the Flattop for now, although, once I've broken the ice with a new caliber, I'm sure that more will follow. I don't own a Vaquero in any caliber.

All the best -

Monty

 

[Montelores]

I have a .44 Lipsey Special (blued 5½" model) and a TALO .44 Special Flattop (SS 4 5/8" barrel).

These are two of the best revolvers that Ruger has built!

They shoot extremely well with my cast bullets (all that they will ever see) and are well made, well finished, and quite accurate (NRA Bullseye Accurate).

Dale53

Thanks, Dale.

Is there a reason you'll only shoot cast?

I'm not a hand-loader -

Monty

 

[Dale53]

Montelores;
I shoot a LOT. I cast my own bullets (both for the economy and because I have learned to enjoy it). Jacketed bullets can reduce barrel life.

Let me give you an example. I have shot tens of thousands of .45 ACP through my 1911's. If I had been shooting hardball, the barrel life is about 5000 rounds (I have about 100,000 rounds through one of my guns and it will still shoot around 2-2.5" at fifty yards). At that rate, I would have had twenty new barrels on the 1911. If that seems extreme talk to some of the guys on the Advanced Marksmanship Team - they will verify that.

I can tailor my bullets and loads to my needs. As an example - my local club has and indoor range and there is a power limitation. Plus, only cast bullets are allowed to preserve the back stop (mild steel plate). It is a piece of cake to tailor a load just for that purpose. When I have hunted deer, I used .44 Magnum pistols and shot my own cast bullets at full power (and was quite successful, I might add).

Anything from mild to wild is available for those that cast their own bullets and reload. And-d-d, I might add, at GREATLY reduced cost. Think less than $3.00 a box of fifty compared to what you have to pay for factory loads.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[gak]

Thanks again, gak.

I'm sort of stuck on the Flattop for now, although, once I've broken the ice with a new caliber, I'm sure that more will follow. I don't own a Vaquero in any caliber.

All the best -

Monty

It won't be held against you and a Flattop's not a bad thing to be stuck on! The 4-5/8" NV was a done deal to me. But I had my sights also set on the Sheriff. I was a reluctant to get a shortie, always having been a 5.5" fan (and now with a few 4+'s of different makes). But, like the Montado, in stainless (and then shod with Carl's American hollys) it struck me what a great "little" Doc Holliday it made--whether that's an accurate characterization or not...and is now one of my very favorite guns. I actually like the two of them equally for their own charms, except the 4-5/8 blue is begging to be Turnbull'd (CCH'd). The fixed sight seems a little naked to me without the treatment.

 

[Rclark]

Some reading material other than us .

Gun Blast .44 Special Flattop
Ross Seyfried on .44 Special Bisley

Enjoy mine. Very accurate with all kinds of loads and velocities. Can't complain! 5 1/2" barrel length is my favorite. Do have one Sheriff version New Vaquero. Won't be giving the three of mine up. Cast bullets is what goes out of mine too. I buy mine though instead of home cast.... Yet ....

 

[Montelores]

Thanks, all, for sharing your perspectives about the .44 Special.

I appreciate the brief primer on why reloading and cast bullets are a good idea.

It sounds like I need to start reloading, but that's not in the cards for me now. I barely have time to get to the range as it is, but a fellow can dream.

I'm going to do some research on what loads are factory available, including cast. I've been able to find American Eagle .38 Special with cast bullets, and they are a bit less expensive.

Thanks again for all the information - best to all!

Monty

 

[BearStopper]

Ive got a 4 5/8" and it is accurate, sized right, and looks great with a nice set of custom grips. Can't go wrong with any of the configurations. Get the one you like best and start plinking away! The average joe doesn't need to worry about barrel life too much. I shoot alot but have yet to go through a barrel on any of my arms. Of course I mix it up alot and don't shoot the same gun everyday.

 

[gak]

Thanks, all, for sharing your perspectives about the .44 Special.

I appreciate the brief primer on why reloading and cast bullets are a good idea.

It sounds like I need to start reloading, but that's not in the cards for me now. I barely have time to get to the range as it is, but a fellow can dream.

I'm going to do some research on what loads are factory available, including cast. I've been able to find American Eagle .38 Special with cast bullets, and they are a bit less expensive.

Thanks again for all the information - best to all!

Monty

Try Georgia Arms. www.georgia-arms.com. Very decent warm round (new mfgr/brass), great outfit, service.

 

[mindustrial]

The Ruger FT 44spl is the first factory new gun I have bought in over 15 years. Finally, a gun company made something that I had to go out & buy brand new!

The 44 special is a nice comfy round..that can still be laoded into stout round when needed.

 

[Montelores]

Thanks again for the info, bearstopper and mindustrial.

gak - thanks for the GA arms source.

Just curious, mindustrial, what is your barrel length?

Thanks -

Monty

 

[Larry from Bend]

This is my FlatTop. Had it almost a year and I enjoy it a lot. If I didn't handload, however, I doubt I'd shoot it much. A 240 grain bullet @ 770 fps costing 50 cents apiece wouldn't do much for me.

As it is, I handload cast and JHPs in 4 different weights --- mainly because I enjoy doing so. I shoot it at steel targets at up to 100 yards. It didn't take long to get used to. I carry it around the place, even though it's on the heavy side.

I'd get one if I were you, but you'd get a lot more out of it if you'd take the handloading leap.

 

[Major T]

The Vaquero if nostalgia is your thing. I recommend the F T for the shooting you describe. So much easier to adjust the point of aim to the different ammo. Good luck, jack

 

[Montelores]

Thanks, Larry and Jack.

Jack - I believe that you're correct. Thanks.

Larry - Nice looking flattop, but Ruger doesn't show them in stainless currently. Was stainless a short-run production?

Edit: Lipsey's shows the stainless .44 Special as n/a, but Davidson's has 2 @ $712.00.

Thanks -

Monty

 

[Rodfac]

Good lookin' grips Larry...I'd like a pair of antlered ones at some point..those look great on your stainless. I'd 2nd your comments on reloading for the .44 Spl...at today's prices you'd have to be independently wealthy or a politician (read thief) to keep 'em shootin' with factory loads...Heck, it's tough even with cast your own and cheap primers. I like cast LSWC's for the most part, in mine but have found that Hornady's 200 gr HP XTP bullet is devastating on deer, beer cans, and ice formations down along the creek.

At this point, I've got three of the .44 Spl Rugers; both barrel lengths in blue (4-5/8" and 5-1/2") and one of the Lipsey's SS 4-5/8" models. From a practical viewpoint, the SS version makes more sense for day to day packing...as I do here on our farm in KY, but either of the blued models is marginally more accurate, with either lead alloy or jacketed. But I'm only talking a 1/4" at 25 yds in overall group size. Any of the three will easily beat 2" gps at 25 yds and some handloads approach the mythical 1" gp for 5 shots on average at that same distance.

Dale 53 may disagree, but I find the shorter barrel length easier to carry...it fits equally well in a rear hip jeans pocket or a belt holster. The holster carry method with that short barrel won''t dig you in the ribs when you sit a tractor, lawn mower, pick-up truck or on horseback...very convenient and at least out to 25 yds, every bit as accurate as the 5-1/2" model. It's my preferential length for all carry, and comes very close to the longer 6-1/2" barreled models for accuracy at these shorter distances.

I re-stocked the guns below to suit my grip preferences.

Rod

 

[Larry from Bend]

Thanks, Larry and Jack.

Jack - I believe that you're correct. Thanks.

Larry - Nice looking flattop, but Ruger doesn't show them in stainless currently. Was stainless a short-run production?

Edit: Lipsey's shows the stainless .44 Special as n/a, but Davidson's has 2 @ $712.00.

Thanks -

Monty

These were a TALO (group of Ruger distributors) offering--- similiar to what Lipsey's did. I'm not sure of their present availabilty. I would think $500 would be a fair price -- that's what I paid for mine.

 

[Montelores]

Thanks, Larry.

The $712.00 is the list price, but the LGS will have a different price.

Rodfac - Beautiful guns. To what do you attribute the "improved" accuracy of the blued models (vs. s/s)? I have never heard of that relationship before now.

Thanks -

Monty

 

[Dale53]

Rodfac;
I have generally been able to shoot the longer barrels slightly better (mostly they just seem "easier" to hit with).

However, as I am sitting here, I have a Talo 4 5/8" SS .44 Special next to me. Unfortunately, mine has the original grips on it. I sure do like your grips, my friend!

Dale53

 

[EDK]

Thanks, ................................................................

It sounds like I need to start reloading, but that's not in the cards for me now. I barely have time to get to the range as it is, but a fellow can dream.
...........................................................................................................

Monty

Not to offend, but you have a lot more time to reload than you do to shoot! 63 year old (and retired 1 month) curmudgeon here. You need a DILLON progressive press set up in the caliber of choice. When you have a few minutes to wait on "Mrs. Monty" getting ready, etc, you run in and load some ammo. A progressive press lets you load one or one hundred rounds at a time...AND it isn't effected by daylight or time of day. Refer to other threads about machine choices...I LOOOVE my 550Bs set up in 357 and 44 so I can load either NOW! It won't take long to switch the yankee dollars from buying ammo to paying for the equipment and your reloading components.

Loading on a single stage press for rifle and/or boolit casting requires a window of time to do them. BUT casting can save even more money on pistol rounds IF you can access a cheap lead supply. Mrs. Ed hates Bill O'Reilly, etc on FOX, so I go out to the reloading shack to watch them; cast some boolits; process rifle brass, etc. I kinda have mixed feelings about actually loading while watching the tube, so I turn on the "elevator music channels" most of the time.

I think it is time to go out and fire up the lead melter and TV and smoke a cigar...SWMBO doesn"t like smoking in the house either.

 

[M'BOGO]

To what do you attribute the "improved" accuracy of the blued models (vs. s/s)? I have never heard of that relationship before now.

Thanks -

Monty

Luck of the draw.

Two cent's if I may. Since you don't relod, have you thought about one of the Flattop convertable .45's? You could shoot the easy to find .45 ACP, and when/if you start reloading, the .45 Colt.

Not at all knocking the .44 Spc, they are great sidearms.

 

[EDK]

Good call on the 45 Convertible. The local shop had a stainless 5.5 inch 45 convertible sitting on the shelf FOR $575 plus 8% tax when I wandered through Thursday. I think this one was a full size BLACKHAWK rather than a FLAT TOP and it had faux ivory on it....RUGER must have got a DEAL on smooth faux ivory, but it's got to be better than the checkered black plastic!

I've got all the stuff for 45 ACP...even a FULL WADCUTTER boolit mould!since I shot S&W 625s for a period of time...and a ton of brass. Hmmmm

 

[M'BOGO]

Don't think that I'm not giving the .44 Spc it's due. Please, everyone keep buying them so they stay in production!

Since early 2009, every time I've gone to bust some caps a Ruger .44 Spc has been on the itinerary for the day.

Unfortunatly, the .44 Spc's have been neglected for so long by the factorys that they have become oddities. It is really a shame, beacuase it is such a great, well balanced cartridge in the Ruger Mid frame. The case isn't too big, or small, and can produce 95% of what you want in a revolver. Velocities from 700 fps to 1100 fps, comfortably, with a good selection of slugs in different weights. If only factory ammo availability was in the range of the .45 ACP, price wise too.

Then maybe we'd get a nice DA revolver, with the FT Blackhawk cylinder in it, with a 4" barrel.....

 

[Montelores]

Thanks, all, for the responses.

Yes, I should be reloading. That would solve SOME of my problems (but then I'd need to find MORE time to shoot that ammo. Hmm.) Doing my initial homework on the intricacies of reloading should be my first step.

I'm rather stuck on the .44, although the .45 suggestion makes sense.

I've had Long Hunter in Amarillo perform action work on some S/A revolvers for me, and I'm really pleased with their work.

Thanks for all the suggestions -

Best to all -

Monty

 

[Rodfac]

M' Bogo, you are 100% in my opinion as to why the blued ones shoot better for me than my SS...it's the luck of the draw...and too, I share your observation that the .44 Special is a bit of red-headed step child in factory loadings...it needs a careful handloader's ministrations to bring out all of its capability. As to the .45 convertible suggeston...good cartridge, but I wonder if Ruger has fixed the undersize cylinder throat problem with its .45 offerings? My NV, came undersized but now shoots exceptionally well after Cylindersmith.com opened them up to .4525".

From target powder puff loads with bullets that resemble collar buttons, to the big 240+ gr LSWC's at just about 1200 fps, the .44 Spl. will do it all. Balanced with just the right size case for Ruger's frame, it's my favorite cartridge and one that is by far the easiest to load. Most any reasonable load with a quality bullet is a keeper.

When Ruger came out with the Flat Tops, I got in line ASAP...after all, I'd waited since the early '70's when Skeeter and Elmer used to write-up their exploits with this old, tried and true, round.

Here's a cpl of targets, with some cast bullet loads, shot right after I'd bought the first Flat Top...Rod

 

[Rodfac]

Dale53....I am sitting here, I have a Talo 4 5/8" SS .44 Special next to me. Unfortunately, mine has the original grips on it. I sure do like your grips, my friend!

We keep talking about it...gotta do some shootin' together....thanks too, for the grips compliment...I've been getting blocks of wood in my Christmas stocking for several years now, since my family found out I was making them! Maybe we can fit you up with a pair that'll turn you away from those Pachmeyers....just a thought...good to hear from you....Dave aka Rod

Here's a close-up of that shortie 44, [pretty sure] tho it may be of #2 son's Flat Top .357, as he glomed on to the grips as soon as he saw them. D

[/u]

 

[Rclark]

but I wonder if Ruger has fixed the undersize cylinder throat problem with its .45 offerings

Well, three of my four cylinders (two .45 flattop Convertibles) needed to be opened up. And both my Vaquero and BH needed the treatment... They all (only have four .45s) shoot very well now. The reamer has more than paid for it self. I think it is still hit or miss, but for for me it has been a pretty consistent.... 'miss' .

From target powder puff loads with bullets that resemble collar buttons, to the big 240+ gr LSWC's at just about 1200 fps, the .44 Spl. will do it all.

Yep ... but then so will my favorite .45 Colt revolvers . While the .44Spec throats seems to be consistently good, the (Ruger) .45 Colt still sometimes needs a bit of work to get the 'best' out of them. Won't part with either caliber though! Shot both this weekend, plus dug out the o' 50th .44Mag flattop as well for some medium/light load testing over the chrono. I think I will be switching from Unique (gasp, can it be?) to Red Dot for the ~1000fps loads in .44Mag.... Excellent chrono and target results....