Getting the urge to get a Redhawk 4.2". Recent Carolina bear attack in the news worries me a little. Usually carry a .357 2.25" SP101 when camping/hiking in the NC mtns but thinking under worse scenario, I might be undergunned. Down side is the extra 20oz weight but I'll deal with that. Liking the look of the new 45LC/45ACP convertible but already have a 7.5" Redhawk 44 that I want to start handloading for. Would simplify and be cheaper in reloading costs to stick with 44mag but liking the idea of 45LC. I know little regarding revolver ballistics. Been reading some of the data over at the Buffalo Bore website.
44 mag or 45LC as trail/Mtn camping gun?
- Thread starter J LeeCZ
- Start date
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
Either caliber will serve you well for the purpose.
I own several of each that you mention . If I had none and had to make that choice, I
would probably just flip a coin and go get it.
I own several of each that you mention . If I had none and had to make that choice, I
would probably just flip a coin and go get it.
As I have (2) Ruger Blackhawks in 45 Colt and 45Colt/45ACP - I'd tend to go with the Redhawk in 45 as well. Either of them can work equally well for your stated purpose. Unless you want to get into loading a different cartridge...
I own and reload for both a 44M Redhawk and a 45LC Redhawk. Either gun will push a 300 grain bullet to 1200 fps out of a 4 inch barrel without much trouble using H-110. Either gun will go faster than that if you want.
In your case, the decision should be easy. Get the 44M Redhawk because -
1. 44Mag ammo is easier to find if you don't reload. Even the Walmart 44M ammo would work fine in NC.
2. You already have a 44M Redhawk.
3. 44Mag reloading recipes are easier for a beginner to understand and very straightforward. There is only one 44M power level. With 45LC, you have to differentiate between SAAMI loads, 20K S&W loads, 32K CUP Ruger Only Loads, and the 50K PSI Redhawk only loads published in Handloader by Brian Pearce.
4. The 45LC Redhawk will probably need to have the cylinder throats reamed. Mine did.
5. Before someone says that 45LC has less recoil, let me state that when both guns shoot a 300 grain bullet at the same velocity the actual recoil will be the same. Perceived recoil might be slightly different but that's just your mind playing tricks.
In your case, the decision should be easy. Get the 44M Redhawk because -
1. 44Mag ammo is easier to find if you don't reload. Even the Walmart 44M ammo would work fine in NC.
2. You already have a 44M Redhawk.
3. 44Mag reloading recipes are easier for a beginner to understand and very straightforward. There is only one 44M power level. With 45LC, you have to differentiate between SAAMI loads, 20K S&W loads, 32K CUP Ruger Only Loads, and the 50K PSI Redhawk only loads published in Handloader by Brian Pearce.
4. The 45LC Redhawk will probably need to have the cylinder throats reamed. Mine did.
5. Before someone says that 45LC has less recoil, let me state that when both guns shoot a 300 grain bullet at the same velocity the actual recoil will be the same. Perceived recoil might be slightly different but that's just your mind playing tricks.
noahmercy
Blackhawk
If you're planning on reloading for an existing 44, I would say stick with that cartridge, so you don't have to get into another caliber. I am a big proponent of 45 Colt and 454 Casull, but I also like to simplify when it comes to ammunition commonality and reloading components. And the minor difference in bullet diameter, weight, and speed means 44 Mag and Ruger-only 45 Colt loads are both great choices for heavy and dangerous animals. For bear medicine, in either cartridge it's hard to beat a 300+ grain LBT-style cast bullet on top of a max charge of Win296 or Lil'Gun. It has awesome penetration and the big meplat chops a generous wound channel on its way through without relying on expansion to make it. That same load is the best hog medicine I've used...broke both front shoulders and pulped the chest cavity of a 475 pound piney woods rooter at twenty yards with a 310 grain 44 at 1320 fps muzzle velocity. I doubt 20 more grains and 14 thousandths of an inch greater diameter would have proven more lethal. -Just my opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it! :wink:
If it were me, I'd look at the Ruger SRH Toklat. It has a 5" barrel, is chambered in 454 casull but you can shoot 45LC from it. Even if you don't anticipate shooting the 454 casull round, you have if you ever want it. If you don't, you have a 45LC in a slightly longer barrel.
http://www.ruger.com/products/superRedhawkDE/models.html
http://www.ruger.com/products/superRedhawkDE/models.html
WIL TERRY
Buckeye
I always carry a SAA 45COLT when I head for the high lonesome with 260gr SWC bullets at 990+-fps that'll fully penetrate ANY living beast in North America.
And so it goes...
And so it goes...
DGW1949
Hawkeye
J LeeCZ said:
If I was trully worried about being attacked by a bear, I'd skip buying the shorter handguns you mentioned, opt for the existing 7-1/2" .44 Mag and buy (or make) an appropriate holster to carry it in.
FWIW (even though you didn't ask)...I'd also keep a rifle handy while at my camp site.
But that's just me.
DGW
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2012
- Messages
- 10,877
You already have a 44mag, so I'd stick with that cartridge. Unless I was moving up to a .454 casull. I don't own any .44's, because I already owned a contender, with the .45lc barrel, so I stuck with the .45 on my revolvers. Nothing wrong with either cartridge, I just can't see having both.
LuckenbachTexas
Buckeye
Niether, a Sig Sauer 220 10mm is what you want.
I do agree you have what you need already. Those NC Bear deserve only the best Bonded or Copper Hollow point, not really a need on those bear for the Hardcast. That long barrel you have will do the job.
You sure came to the right place if you wanna know about bears :D
I do agree you have what you need already. Those NC Bear deserve only the best Bonded or Copper Hollow point, not really a need on those bear for the Hardcast. That long barrel you have will do the job.
You sure came to the right place if you wanna know about bears :D
Lee, either one will serve you well, it's the load that does the work, so a good load on which ever you decide on is key. I typically use Buffalo Bore ammo and I like the heavier hard casts they offer. 305 LBT/LFNGC is available for the 44 Mag, you could use a 340 but it's a pretty stout load and not necessary for even larger black bears. For the 45 Colt I use a - 325 gr. L.BT/LFN Either would serve you well. Another option would be the Ruger Alaskans I have 45 Colt and 480 Ruger in those. Lots of good choices for sure. Someone has already mentioned the Toklat and they are nice guns as well. I haven't shot mine and haven't had it long but kind of take to it.
Silent Sam
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Messages
- 728
First, I wouldn't worry about the latest news. Attacks are rare and often include some human stupidity. If you want to increase your "insurance level" get some honest bear spray.
The only way I would ever carry a 7.5" Redhawk is if I was out dedicated handgun hunting. Camping/hiking no way. Reloading is the way to go if you want to shoot enough to get really proficient with either the 44 or 45. While it may simplify a bit sticking with one caliber the cost difference is negligible once you've got the dies. I'll tell you up front I'm a 45 guy, but there is nothing wrong with the 44Mag. If you get the Redhawk in 45 and decide you don't want it, it will be easy to turn back into cash. You don't have to worry about differentiating different 45Colt power levels as the Redhawk will handle them all. A 300gr load @ 1000-1200 fps in either caliber will do all that needs doing. Load it or purchase ammo at whatever power level you want. If the Redhawk platform fits you, fine. If you haven't tried the Supers, you should. The Alaskans are nice and are as packable as the short Redhawk and may be easier for you to shoot well.
The only way I would ever carry a 7.5" Redhawk is if I was out dedicated handgun hunting. Camping/hiking no way. Reloading is the way to go if you want to shoot enough to get really proficient with either the 44 or 45. While it may simplify a bit sticking with one caliber the cost difference is negligible once you've got the dies. I'll tell you up front I'm a 45 guy, but there is nothing wrong with the 44Mag. If you get the Redhawk in 45 and decide you don't want it, it will be easy to turn back into cash. You don't have to worry about differentiating different 45Colt power levels as the Redhawk will handle them all. A 300gr load @ 1000-1200 fps in either caliber will do all that needs doing. Load it or purchase ammo at whatever power level you want. If the Redhawk platform fits you, fine. If you haven't tried the Supers, you should. The Alaskans are nice and are as packable as the short Redhawk and may be easier for you to shoot well.
wizofwas
Buckeye
Here is a simple non answer.
A. There is nothing wrong with just using the .357. It'll do the job for you with no problems at all, if you can hit the target.
B. If it were me, I'd get the 45. Why? I'm a 45 guy and nothing's going to change that.
C. If you're going to be reloading for the 44M anyway, why not get the 44M? Keep it simple by only reloading for one caliber.
The choice is yours. I told you it was a simple non answer. :-)
A. There is nothing wrong with just using the .357. It'll do the job for you with no problems at all, if you can hit the target.
B. If it were me, I'd get the 45. Why? I'm a 45 guy and nothing's going to change that.
C. If you're going to be reloading for the 44M anyway, why not get the 44M? Keep it simple by only reloading for one caliber.
The choice is yours. I told you it was a simple non answer. :-)
OldePhart
Blackhawk
I was wondering if somebody was going to mention this... :)wizofwas said:
A proper .357 load should be quite adequate for black bear. I wouldn't purposefully go hunting black bear with one but I wouldn't be uncomfortable hiking/camping with one...in fact a 3" SP101 is exactly what I have for those activities and I don't feel under-gunned anywhere outside of grizzly country.
I wouldn't worry about black bears much at all. They are much more shy than their big cousins. I've been around black bear many times and they really are more afraid of you than you are of them...unless you get between a mama and her cubs or are stupid enough to smell like really tasty food:
1) Hang your food well away from your tent.
2) Keep your spare clothes, tent, etc. up wind of your stove or cooking fire (just common sense for several reasons).
3) Wash up before turning in and don't sleep in the clothes that you wore when cooking and eating...remember that a bear has a nose about 50 times more sensitive than yours and it is the smell of food that attracts them.
4) NEVER have food in your tent or around your sleeping bag even temporarily because the food odor will linger. Yeah, if it's raining that means you either go hungry or put on your rain suit and get your backside out of the tent to cook and eat.
5) Don't pack your sleeping bag or tent inside a pack with food unless the food is in very tightly sealed containers.
6) If you encounter black bear don't approach them and try to pet them. This shouldn't have to be mentioned but there have actually been a couple of recent cases where people tried to get closer so they could take a picture with a crappy cell phone or something; if you want pictures of bears bring a proper camera and a long lens!
I can just about guarantee that anybody who gets mauled by a black violated one or more of the above simple rules. When I used to backpack a lot I had black bear snuffling around the edges of my camp site a few times at night...usually all I had to do was stir a little and make some noise or turn on a flashlight and they lumbered off to investigate other things. I had one that was a little more persistent once but it left after I tossed a couple of pebbles in it's general direction (not directly at it and NOT something you want to do with griz). I had a 4" .357 with me on that particular occasion and that was the only time I thought I might end up having to use it but the pebbles did the trick...though I have to confess I slept kind of lightly the rest of that night! LOL
John
OldePhart
Blackhawk
Oh...and before I forget...bear spray is just as, if not more, effective on black bears as on the big guys. In fact, several "experts" claim that even the relatively weak "dog sprays" are pretty effective on black bear.
JJ_Miller_480
Bearcat
I have been reading " bear vs handgun " threads for as long as there has been an internet. Elephants have been killed with the .22LR, does that make it perfect ? I'd guess not.
I'm not known for being PC so hitch up your britches..............the one thing I have NEVER seen in a post about bear attacks is the unusually high number of female hunters/campers that are victims. Its not reported on public media much or at all. Boars are boars, with their boar parts ( or boy parts ). There is enough data available to make me believe that when a women is having her period it attracts boars, thus bringing the attacks. Just stating facts, make of them what you will........................................JJ
I'm not known for being PC so hitch up your britches..............the one thing I have NEVER seen in a post about bear attacks is the unusually high number of female hunters/campers that are victims. Its not reported on public media much or at all. Boars are boars, with their boar parts ( or boy parts ). There is enough data available to make me believe that when a women is having her period it attracts boars, thus bringing the attacks. Just stating facts, make of them what you will........................................JJ
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
What J.J. Suggests has been studied by game and fish people and found to be spot on. Living on the farm as a young man, my dad told me the bull will get excited when a human woman in that condition is near. Just another thing to keep in mind when in bear country.
dakota1911
Buckeye
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2009
- Messages
- 1,021
Still carry a Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC when I booney bang. The first two chamber have shot shells for snakes and the rest have Ruger/TC Contender only handloads for 2 and four legged stuff.
From what I understand you don't need those type loads for black bear. For example, Brian Pearce's son hunted an' shot a black bear with his midframe .45 Colt Single Action (documented in a Hand Loader article). Bullet was (from memory) a hardcast 285 grain bullet and pressure was under 23K .... Oh, and two legged soft skinned animals certainly don't require 30K psi loads or even 23K, or even 14K loads :) . From all I've read (no experience here), hard cast is the way to go as you want penetration for bear ... the bullet is already big enough to make a nice big hole. No hollow points for me.
Well now .... I just had some training with Bear Spray ... The trainer(s) had a mock bear run down a track from behind a curtain (like coming out of the woods) at 25mph (this is actually slow). You had to turn around, unlock the safety, aim and press the trigger before the bear got to you.... Yowsa, I wouldn't want two shots of shot shells in front of my 'bear' loads (and I was not surprised, like you would be in the woods)! This happens very quickly! Took me two tries... I was enlightened so to speak, as you'd think you'd have plenty of time .... Not....
contender
Ruger Guru
I'm not too far from that bear "attack." In fact, my son works for the Henderson Co sheriff dept, and two fellow deputies were camped in the exact same campground as this attack a few weeks before this.
First, it is rare to encounter an aggressive black bear.
Second, as noted elsewhere, bear pepper spray, (Counter Assault is the best,) will be cheaper & better.
But, if you must get another gun, then either caliber will do what you are thinking. I prefer the 45 Colt, and I'm never undergunned with a good SA in 45. Mild to wild, and even if you are set up for 44 mag to reload, a second set of dies, a shell holder, and the necessary components are not too expensive. Especially if you are willing to spend $700-$800 on a new gun.
And if you wish to save $$$ a SA vs any of the DA revolvers will be less expensive & can make buying the reloading stuff cheaper.
If you happen to be near Lake Lure & want to try out a few different guns,,, I'm only 20 minutes off I-26 with my range & a few guns to try out.
First, it is rare to encounter an aggressive black bear.
Second, as noted elsewhere, bear pepper spray, (Counter Assault is the best,) will be cheaper & better.
But, if you must get another gun, then either caliber will do what you are thinking. I prefer the 45 Colt, and I'm never undergunned with a good SA in 45. Mild to wild, and even if you are set up for 44 mag to reload, a second set of dies, a shell holder, and the necessary components are not too expensive. Especially if you are willing to spend $700-$800 on a new gun.
And if you wish to save $$$ a SA vs any of the DA revolvers will be less expensive & can make buying the reloading stuff cheaper.
If you happen to be near Lake Lure & want to try out a few different guns,,, I'm only 20 minutes off I-26 with my range & a few guns to try out.
mike7mm08
Buckeye
I would also go the 44 mag route. Don't run me off but I would suggest a non Ruger. Recently picked up a Smith and Wesson Model 69 Combat Magnum. In my opinion about as perfect a woods gun as you can get. Built on the L frame instead of an N. Same size as a 357, 4 1/4" barrel best trigger in both single and double action I have ever pulled. I have handled highend custom revolvers that honestly were no better than this. Only minor complaints are the rear sight and the internal lock. Internal lock was gone in about five minutes. Rear sight just seems cheap and a bowen will replace it at some point.
Would of liked to have gone Ruger and thought long and hard about a short barreled blackhawk. But just did not hit all the points for me. Now if they would make a five shot 44 mag on a GP100 the smith might have had some competition.
Would of liked to have gone Ruger and thought long and hard about a short barreled blackhawk. But just did not hit all the points for me. Now if they would make a five shot 44 mag on a GP100 the smith might have had some competition.
Arky
Single-Sixer
If you have a 44 mag the obvious thing to do is get a 45. :)
Didn't realize the short supply of revolvers until I started lokking. My LGS checked distributors and found only a few in the 4" range. Found some on web but really want to hold before I buy. Taking a road trip towards the Gatlinburg area this weekend so may make a few extra stops.
What got me started on this, other than all the bear encounters recently, was when I watched a Jeff Quinn YouTube video and saw the Ruger 5032. Finding one is a different issue.
I'm middle aged, fairly recently divorced(2011), and now have the freedom and extra money to pick up a new handgun when I get the urge. A lot has to do with the fear of what I will or won't be able to do tomorrow, especially if Hillary makes it to the White House. Have loved guns since I was a kid growing up in SE WVa. Everyone had guns and as a kid I loved shooting. Sometimes, even with this newfound freedom, I still find reason to buy a new gun. I've bought 8, I think, in the last 12 months. My sons are loving seeing what I get that will get passed to them one day. I've given them 3 or 4 guns each from my gun safe in the last few years. Got to stop that but they have small children and have higher priorities for their income. Oldest son is coming by tonight to get my CZ PCR that I don't shoot. Told him, that was it, and he and his little brother will have to wait a while to get the rest. I love their excitement though when I give them another. Reminds me of Christmas when they were babies. We hit the range weekly and they seem to get excited when I unzip my range bag, wondering what new gun I may pull out.
Life is good.
What got me started on this, other than all the bear encounters recently, was when I watched a Jeff Quinn YouTube video and saw the Ruger 5032. Finding one is a different issue.
I'm middle aged, fairly recently divorced(2011), and now have the freedom and extra money to pick up a new handgun when I get the urge. A lot has to do with the fear of what I will or won't be able to do tomorrow, especially if Hillary makes it to the White House. Have loved guns since I was a kid growing up in SE WVa. Everyone had guns and as a kid I loved shooting. Sometimes, even with this newfound freedom, I still find reason to buy a new gun. I've bought 8, I think, in the last 12 months. My sons are loving seeing what I get that will get passed to them one day. I've given them 3 or 4 guns each from my gun safe in the last few years. Got to stop that but they have small children and have higher priorities for their income. Oldest son is coming by tonight to get my CZ PCR that I don't shoot. Told him, that was it, and he and his little brother will have to wait a while to get the rest. I love their excitement though when I give them another. Reminds me of Christmas when they were babies. We hit the range weekly and they seem to get excited when I unzip my range bag, wondering what new gun I may pull out.
Life is good.
BearBio
Buckeye
A couple of comments:
1. Black bear sows are not particularly aggressive, even with cubs. I've been between sows and cubs on several occasions. There is an evolutionary reason for this that I won't take the time to explain. PM me if interested. Grizzly sows are much more aggressive. Most fatal attacks are male black bears.
2. I agree...Counter Assault is the best. Get two cans (if you use one up, you still have to walk back to the car through bear country). Also, after you use it, trash it. The spray will dry and clog the nozzle. BTW: Spray is 92% effective in stopping charges versus guns (72% effective). NO FATALITIES with spray.
3. I'd ditch the 357, even for black bears. I've seen it fail on medium (~250 lb) wild pigs. A good hard-cast 45 or 44 is your best bet. Out west, we have grizzlies (rare) and moose (very mean!). I used to carry hot-loaded 45 Colt in an OM Blackhawk; now it's a 454 custom Super Blackhawk.
4. "Situational Awareness" is still your best defense!
1. Black bear sows are not particularly aggressive, even with cubs. I've been between sows and cubs on several occasions. There is an evolutionary reason for this that I won't take the time to explain. PM me if interested. Grizzly sows are much more aggressive. Most fatal attacks are male black bears.
2. I agree...Counter Assault is the best. Get two cans (if you use one up, you still have to walk back to the car through bear country). Also, after you use it, trash it. The spray will dry and clog the nozzle. BTW: Spray is 92% effective in stopping charges versus guns (72% effective). NO FATALITIES with spray.
3. I'd ditch the 357, even for black bears. I've seen it fail on medium (~250 lb) wild pigs. A good hard-cast 45 or 44 is your best bet. Out west, we have grizzlies (rare) and moose (very mean!). I used to carry hot-loaded 45 Colt in an OM Blackhawk; now it's a 454 custom Super Blackhawk.
4. "Situational Awareness" is still your best defense!
Lee those Redhawks are really nice. Good luck finding one.
Huhwhat?
Blackhawk
I have a Redhawk in .44 mag. If I found a Redhawk in .45 Colt, I'd trade my .44 in on it.
