40 Cal Recommendations Please

[soldernut]

Yosemite Sam,

Very thoughtful, well-articulated post. Thanks. I particularly liked...

"Hopefully you're never going to have to use that CCW gun for its intended purpose in the first place. "

That's for damned sure. The second-to-last thing I ever want to do is use a gun in self defense. I'm pretty sure I could do it, but I know it would F*** with my psyche afterward.

That last thing I want to do is need to use a gun in self defense - and not have one.

 

[Mike J]

I understand Rev. I am limited as to what I can do practice wise. I actually went 3 months without shooting this year. Then finances turned for the better & I started shooting more the past few months. I probably shoot 200 rounds of .40 a month with some 9mm & .357 magnum mixed in. The more I shoot that old beat up Dan Wesson I have the more attached I get to it.
Right now it looks like I will be working 6 days a week for the next month or so-it may be a while before my next rqnge trip but I should be able to afford ammo when I get time.

 

[SamV]

Yosemite Sam sums up my thoughts well.

 

[wixedmords]

YS,

That was a good post and very thoughtful. I thought it was a great post as others did. You have posted some of my favorite posts on the form.

I am not sure you meant to say that lighter bullets over-penetrate as over-penetration generally comes from heavier bullets and speed. If two of the same diameter bullets are driven at the same speed, the heavier bullet will penetrate more. What makes a 45 ACP so valuable as a man-stopper is that is a heavy bullet driven slow enough not to over-penetrate. A 44 Special falls into this category also.

If a 45 ACP was driven 400 fps faster or better it would start to get into the range of over penetration, if the medium of penetration is something in the human body thickness range. Of course what a bullet hits within that medium is a factor, a bone shot, organ shot, bullet construction and such. But, ignoring those factors for a minute, speed and weight produce more penetration.

 

[TRanger]

What makes a 45 ACP so valuable as a man-stopper is that is a heavy bullet driven slow enough not to over-penetrate. A 44 Special falls into this category also.

Bullet construction has more to do with penetration that most any other factor. A full metal jacketed .45 ACP bullet at standard velocity will shoot clean through an average sized man and many a beast with monotonous regularity. Conversely, the faster you drive an expanding bullet, the quicker it expands and comes to a stop. Drive it fast enough and it will simply explode, with minimal penetration.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

What makes a 45 ACP so valuable as a man-stopper is that is a heavy bullet driven slow enough not to over-penetrate. A 44 Special falls into this category also.

Bullet construction has more to do with penetration that most any other factor. A full metal jacketed .45 ACP bullet at standard velocity will shoot clean through an average sized man and many a beast with monotonous regularity. Conversely, the faster you drive an expanding bullet, the quicker it expands and comes to a stop. Drive it fast enough and it will simply explode, with minimal penetration.

So guys, a 30-06 shot at 10' will over penetrate and is therefore not be good at taking out someone?

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I wouldn't want to shoot someone with one in a crowded public place, where there may be bystanders behind him.

Considering my one experience getting mugged was in a large crowd of people (exiting a concert at a stadium in Boston), having something that's almost sure to shoot "through" someone is not a good choice (IMO).

And unfortunately, that's where this discussion will likely deteriorate as people bring up minor niggly little points about this bullet or that, barrel length, etc, etc, etc. All valid points. Have at it. That's why I say this is all very personal, and what constitutes the right choice for you may not be the right choice for me.

I will say that while my preference is for the big, heavy bullets (230gr JHP .45s or 200gr .44s), I often carry 158gr LSWCHP +P in a .38 snub, a 9mm (various ammo), or even 90gr ball in a .380 at times. I use ball in the .380 because it feeds better and because don't trust JHPs to expand at mouse gun velocities, nor do I feel terribly concerned about that round overpenetrating.

-- Sam

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Sam, my point is you can't really know how far something is going to go in any scenario. Are you always going to be on target and hit center of mass? Couldn't you just as likely miss a target competely? Things happen, should somebody even consider using deadly force in a crowd or if a confined space with innocents possibly in the line of fire?

 

[GhosT]

Solder nut,
See what I am saying about starting a caliber war without trying? :wink:

In his first post in this thread .."So I'm asking for recommendations for 40 cal pistols."


{Kudos to most of the posters in this thread,...honest opinions without attacking other's choices...NOTE...I said MOST...lol}

The GUY asked for SW.40 caliber gun choice advice, not asking why you you prefer another round!!!!!{freely admit, done this myself before.}


Yeah, feel free to attack me in this thread,can take it.....

I just tend to get fed up when....a member asks a question, then others
not only don't answer, but try to convince "said poster"....made a bad choice in "SAID" question!.

 

[Richbaker]

Grip shape has a LOT to do with perceived recoil..... my MK40 hurts like hell to fire, whereas my STI LS40 is quite pleasant. They are similarly sized, both are all steel, and are fairly close in weight.
The biggest difference between the two is grip shape.... The LS has a 1911 grip frame, the MK40 grip has curves.
Last time I shot the Kahr, after 5 rounds I had a flinch that took several boxes of .22LR to get rid of...

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Sam, my point is you can't really know how far something is going to go in any scenario. Are you always going to be on target and hit center of mass? Couldn't you just as likely miss a target competely? Things happen, should somebody even consider using deadly force in a crowd or if a confined space with innocents possibly in the line of fire?

Exactly. Every situation, and person, is different. In the case I mentioned above I don't think a firearm would have been usable. Besides happening too fast, and having crowds around, I was 16 at the time, and would have been in a world of hurt packin' in Boston... Even in 1976.

... I just tend to get fed up when....a member asks a question, then others not only don't answer, but try to convince "said poster"....made a bad choice in "SAID" question!.

Me, too...

soldernut, good luck with your search. If I were looking for the gun you describe in the base post I'd be looking toward the CZ line, myself. My little Sig P239 was a great gun, but they're expensive now. Also, don't overlook the Stoeger Cougar. I've heard great things about the gun and it's relatively inexpensive. Same gun Beretta used to sell. Don't know anything about service, parts or accessories though.

Then again, there's the P94...

-- Sam

 

[soldernut]

Ghost,

Thanks for pointing out my initial intent in starting this topic. I actually dont' mind the wandering off topic because some of the most valuable information I've picked up in this topic - and a couple others I've posted has been in "off topic" areas.

Many, many thanks to all that have replied. I've come to a decision and it's that I'm not ready to decide. I've been forced to reconsider even my choice of the 40 S&W caliber.

The reasons are in three areas:

1: I've heard plenty people say, quite convincingly, that with more modern ammo, my 9mm is perfectly adequate.

2: I'm not all that excited about the choice 40 cal guns in my budget. The one I most wanted, a CZ, is available only to law enforcement in California. Crazy, but that's how it is out here in the Peoples' Republik of Californika.

3: Reloading. It's been said that the 40 is a difficult and unforgiving round to reload. I can see that, given its small case capacity. I'm a very experienced single-stage reloader, and could probably deal with it, but I prefer a round where there's room for some experimentation. The 10mm makes more sense in that department.

Visiting a gun store last eve, I even reconsidered the 1911/45 platform. They had one (forget the brand name) that's made in the Philipines, within my budget, and said to be quite good.

But that idea went out the window when I asked the salesman (a 1911 fan) what it takes to field strip & clean a 1911. His face kind of fell and then he said they're "a pain in the ass." He admited that, although he shoots the 1911, he has a friend that cleans it for him. Man, that's lame!

That was the last thing I expected to hear about a pistol that was issued to hundreds of thousands of troops. What percentage of an army will be mechanically adept enough to deal with a hard-to-strip & clean pistol? Dumb.

All the 40s I looked over were a breeze to take down. Which is pretty much the case with all the 9mm pistols.

A friend showed me his Taurus PT-101, which has to be the simplest gun in the world to field strip. You don't even have to move the slide against the recoil spring. Just flip down a lever and the slide slides fowrard all the way off.

Well, since a financial surprise forces me to wait on a new pistol, I'm going to sit back and take all the time in the world deciding.

I'll also take the time to see what I can do at the reloading bench - and perhaps elsewhere - to improve the accuracy of my P89. In the end, I may end up buying a nicer 9mm - maybe even a compact one.

 

[TRanger]

I guess compared to a modern "wonder gun" a 1911 is a pain to strip; but take your gun counterman's advice with a grain of salt. The 1911 is quite simple to field strip and it can be done in seconds.

By the way, I'm not trying to push you in a particular direction. I'm one of those who agree your 9mm is perfectly adequate. I doubt there's a nickel's worth of difference between the 9 and the .40.

 

[soldernut]

TRanger,

Thanks for your post. I'll hit YouTube and find some videos on field stripping the 1911. I'm pretty mechanically adept, so the difference between the 1911 and a modern "wonder gun" may not be at all significant.

Also, I may just stick to 9mm. Many of the posts here (and in other topics I posted) are making me more comfortable about the "little" 9. I already have one (P89), have been reloading for it for years, and maybe just need to take some measures to make it more accurate.

And, failing that, I'll have an excuse to get the gorgeous CZ 97B. :lol:

 

[GhosT]

Soldernut said...

"........ when I asked the salesman (a 1911 fan) what it takes to field strip & clean a 1911. His face kind of fell and then he said they're "a pain in the ass." He admitted that, although he shoots the 1911, he has a friend that cleans it for him. Man, that's lame! "

OHHH has ZERO To do with Soldernut's original question.....


What that SALESMAN SAID....TOO DAMN FUNNY!

Although haven't owned a 1911 design gun in over 20 years...
Bet I could field strip one in 30 seconds...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Who else would fear buying a gun from THAT GUY!!!!! :lol:

 

[soldernut]

Yeah, I did go off topic in my own thread. Sorry. Just talking about my travails trying to make a decision.

As for that salesman and the 1911...

I checked YouTube for 1911 field stripping.

Sheesh! It's about the same procedure as the S&W 39 I once had. Child's play.

Well, I suspected he was full of rot. You don't issue a difficult to maintain sidearm to a military, and it definitely does not go on to be one of the most popular platforms for civilian use it it's ultra-hard to field strip.

 

[toolman]

my 40 of choice is the kahr cw 40 great shooter carry it every day some folk swear by them some swear at them can,t please every one so ya gotta please yourself .

where have I heard that quote b4 .

 

[soldernut]

Toolman,

Last I checked, the Khar's were way above my pay grade.

Also, aren't they a DAO striker-fired pistol?

My strong preference is for a DA/SA with safety/decocker. Don't really care for the Glock/Springfield stripe of pistols.

 

[Mike J]

Soldernut I don't have any experience with them but if you like DA/SA you may want to check out the Beretta PX4 Storm pistols. I have read a lot of positive things about them.

 

[flyers76]

Soldiernut:
I've been thinking about getting a .40 myself for awhile to augment my Ruger SR9 9mm (which has worked flawlessly for me in the 16 months I've owned it)...been to 4 different gun shops in this area and several gun shows and keep hearing the HK USP is an excellent .40 choice. Might want to check that out...