38 Special +P Hollowpoint Semi-Wadcutters

[DPris]

Different recoil levels, different point of aim, potential court issues.
If you're going to be using a firearm in a defensive role to save a life, you don't start out with a graduated approach in power levels.
You don't shoot "just a little" starting out & if the first .38s don't do the job escalate to higher power levels with the magnum loads.

Use the same power levels, whatever you choose, .38s or .357s, learn the point of aim, and accustom yourself to the same recoil levels from shot to shot.
Denis

 

[MB49Caddy]

Different recoil levels, different point of aim, potential court issues.
If you're going to be using a firearm in a defensive role to save a life, you don't start out with a graduated approach in power levels.
You don't shoot "just a little" starting out & if the first .38s don't do the job escalate to higher power levels with the magnum loads.

Use the same power levels, whatever you choose, .38s or .357s, learn the point of aim, and accustom yourself to the same recoil levels from shot to shot.
Denis

Thanks DPris. This is great info for a new gun owner like me. I had not considered the legal aspects, and certainly I should have considering the result of shooting someone, even if they are in my home. I think it is a crock that I should have to care if someone ever enters my home, but such is the world in which we live.

If I would not have posted here I would have had 4 rounds .38 special SWC and 2 of .357, but now I will just load all .38 +p 158grain SWC and I have two quick loaders, one with six more .38 SWC and one full of .357

Feeling confident that should have me covered.

Thanks again for the input from all of you.
MB

 

[dougader]

It's a great round for 38 special. So is the Speer Gold Dot 135 gdhp +P.

IMO, you can do better with your 357 magnum... I still load the 357 with the Federal 125 jhp in 357 magnum. But what I think doesn't matter. It's what you are comfortable with, what you can shoot with control and accurately, that will get he job done if it ever comes to that.

 

[mohavesam]

It is actually Federal 38 Special +P .158 Grain Semi-Wadcutters..
What do you guys think about loading these in my gun for home defense in a Ruger GP100? ..I have heard both good and bad.

Once used the Federal Nyclad +P 158 SWCHP on a 100# Rottie-APBT mix. Front-on square in the chest and it blew him up like a cartoon balloon - then dropped him in his shadow. Very effective. And that was a 2" Taurus M85.
As I don't know what you expect to happen when you shoot whatever type of bad guy you expect in your home... tweaking crackhead or bodybuilder prison escapee... nonetheless I'd sleep easy knowing the effect at hallway-ranges.
The only thing you'll need to add is an experienced castle-doctrine lawyer. 8)
And a good sign-language instructor! :shock:

 

[FergusonTO35]

I once talked to a retired longtime cop about this, he said that the old .38 Special +P 158 grain lead hollowpoint was the best defensive handgun round he ever saw. The cop remarked that he had sat in on a few autopsies of perps whose career was cut short with them and was impressed with the results, "one per customer is all you need" he quipped.

According to my tests a lead bullet with a big flat nose will expand some but retain enough of the shank to penetrate well. I keep my S&W 10-5 loaded with a 158 grain lead flat point slug over 5.8 grains of Accurate #5. It produces a consistent 875 fps over my chronograph, slightly exceeding the published velocity of the aforementioned factory load yet according to the data is within the standard pressure range.

 

[wideglide]

I've seen the results of 38 special on everything from a 2x4s to cinder blocks and even a few hogs and I can't imagine getting hit by any version of that round. In the home a 38 in any configuration will produce a deafening sound, a bright flash and something will get broken either a wall, apiece of furniture or someones skeleton. As with most any round it could include all the above from one shot. All the advice here on knowing the lines you would take with the awareness of what is beyond is salient. I hope I'm never in the position to have to run the possibilities through my mind in the seconds allowed for the decision that will last a lifetime, but learning as much as possible from folks like all of you helps me think I'll increase my odds.

 

[Poco Oso]

38 SPCL +P 158gr SWCHP has been the standard load in my 4" 357 (night stand gun) for many years. If you have to touch one off in the house, you'll appreciate the reduced recoil,noise and flash, as compared to the .357Mag. :shock:
mohavesam's recommendation for a sign language instructor apply here. :mrgreen:

 

[stevemb]

The load talked about is a worthy load. If I had loved ones in the next room, in the direction I'm most likely to have to shoot, I'd do something. Say pull off the sheetrock and put up a layer of Lexan and over it a skin of sheet metal, then put the sheetrock back up. stevemb

 

[w5lx]

HAVE SEEN 'EM IN ACTION. They worked fine.

Wil,
Could you elaborate a bit on your post? I would be interested in your real-world experiences with this round.

 

[Snake45]

The load talked about is a worthy load. If I had loved ones in the next room, in the direction I'm most likely to have to shoot, I'd do something. Say pull off the sheetrock and put up a layer of Lexan and over it a skin of sheet metal, then put the sheetrock back up. stevemb

How about a big whistle or one of those air horns that sportsball fans like stored next to your house gun? Sounding it means "Everybody hit the floor! I'm about to bust loose up in here! Fire in the hole!" Have a "floor drill" once or twice a year. :? :? :? :?

It might scare the literal crap out of any intruders, too, obviating the need to shoot at all. Win-win! :wink:

 

[stevemb]

More realistically, how about a dog. stevemb

 

[MB49Caddy]

More realistically, how about a dog. stevemb

We have one of those too. Dog is first notification, followed by me announcing I am armed and taking up a solid choke point location to eliminate any access to my family.

There is no way I need to shoot .357 in the house. I have plenty of that ammo for any "other" situation that may arise here in the DC 'burbs, but the .158 grain SWC HP .38 +P packs enough punch to provide the intruder with the thought of exiting our abode very quickly. Plus the added benefit of less recoil and less flash and noise for me to deal with while shooting said arse hole.

In the two speed loaders I have another six of the rounds discussed, and the second speedloader (different type of loader so I will know in the dark which is which) with .357 HP rounds lest I should ever need them.

Appreciate everyone's views though. Learning a lot just reading what you guys have to say. Thanks.
MB

 

[AJGUNNER]

Have a look at this video from a dash cam. This happened back in August in Oregon.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Police-release-video-of-I-84-shootout--226380111.html

Somewhere in there, this guy took a .40 round to the torso (no exact details release). He was found a mile down the road dead in the seat.

The .40 is one power packed round. I am amazed that we didn't even see the damage as he was dancing around and getting back to his car.

 

[toysoldier]

I've read lots of stories about someone taking a hit to the chest, yet remaining functional.

As a surgical technologist, I have never seen anyone with a hole in their gut (from whatever cause) that could do more than curl up in a ball and moan.

If I have to stop someone, I'll be aiming for the pelvis or thoracic triangle. Much better chance of hitting a major vessel. Just find an illustration of the circulatory system, and you'll see what I'm saying.

 

[P95man]

Toysoldier

Pelvis shots with a pistol do not always stop. I am a retired career LE (28 years), a senior Firearms Instructor, a long time student of terminal ballistic against living things. I have personally seen 3 male adults shot in the Pelvis area; no arteries hit, bones broken or rolling up in a ball moaning. All 3 walked into the ER or ambulance. Rifle/shotgun wounds different story.

Center Mass of the Chest is still the best way to stop a determined attacker short of a Central Nervous System or Brain hit. Much easier to hit also.

Saying that, these are just personal observations, an examples and not hard rules. JMHO.

Mark

 

[Meeko]

Toysoldier

Pelvis shots with a pistol do not always stop. I am a retired career LE (28 years), a senior Firearms Instructor, a long time student of terminal ballistic against living things. I have personally seen 3 male adults shot in the Pelvis area; no arteries hit, bones broken or rolling up in a ball moaning. All 3 walked into the ER or ambulance. Rifle/shotgun wounds different story.

Center Mass of the Chest is still the best way to stop a determined attacker short of a Central Nervous System or Brain hit. Much easier to hit also.

Saying that, these are just personal observations, an examples and not hard rules. JMHO.

Mark

P95man, I also have 28 years of LE experience with the last 14 Federal and am a Lead Firearms instructor. I have to say I respectfully disagree with part of what your saying. Pelvis shots are very effective if they are true pelvis. A true pelvis shot will be placed at a point where it will break bone/ball joint etc. Even if not fatal the skeleton ceases to perform as manufactured. Head shots are only effective if in the T zone. With most handgun cartridges anything outside the T zone usually glances off. Sure you will ring their bell but might not stop. True pelvis shots you have more area to hit a bone/ball joint area than a head and usually their pelvis area is not as "mobile" as their head is during a fight. But yes center mass/CNS shots are the best for plan A but a lot of things go south with stress or Mr. Murphy!.

I have seen dozens of Federal inmates walking around (several limping) that have been shot with everything from 9mm, 40, 10mm, 357 and 44 Mag and even 5.56 and 12 ga 00 buck. Several of them had facial injuries. They are the exception and in a home defense situation you can't beat a 38 Special 158 gr SMCHP. Unlike the examples above a home owner (in a home shooting situation) isn't trying to take anyone into custody just stop the threat and even if not hit most burglary participants do the flight response if they can when that first shot happens.

 

[Boge]

There is a reason PD's nor Federal agencies don't issue revolvers as front line service weapons today. I carry a J Frame as a backup and it's a great gun, however I am under no illusion that it is a death ray. I have far more faith in my SIG p229 in .357 SIG. :wink:

 

[Meeko]

There is a reason PD's nor Federal agencies don't issue revolvers as front line service weapons today. I carry a J Frame as a backup and it's a great gun, however I am under no illusion that it is a death ray. I have far more faith in my SIG p229 in .357 SIG. :wink:

Like many here I lived/worked through this whole revolver to auto transition. My observation if you will is The only reason(s) most agencies/individuals transitioned to autos was pop culture. Let me explain. Back in the days of revolvers both 38 and 357's most training doctrine was not "keep shooting until the threat goes away" yada yada yada. You usually didn't need to. When the wonder nines took over the ammunition companies didn't have the balance down on getting the 9mm to expand reliable so thus some failures to stop happened so the training doctrine was adjusted or the call for a 10mm and later 40. Ever since then the "shoot 2 reassess or shoot til the threat goes away etc is ingrained.

Now the 9mm performs better than ever and there are several caliber options as well as platforms.
A choice is just that...a choice be it an Agency issue type or an individual allowed to still carry that wheel gun they are comfortable and proficient at. After all the US Marshals Service (use to work for them) issued 3" Ruger GP 100 with 357 mag 145gr JHP up until the 2002 time frame.

Also in my experience it doesn't matter if it is a 6 shot revolver, 15 shot auto most folks empty their firearm before they realize it in a LOT of real world shooting situations.

Revolvers are a great firearms system if someone wants to learn the DA trigger. Their is an art to it. Back in my USAF and municipal PD days there was some great revolver shooters with those DA triggers when you know how to stage it (and yes they could shoot them fast and accurate). For folks not wanting to learn or refusing to learn that trigger they are probably better off served with a Glock and not a revolver or DA/SA SIG etc.

As far as "firepower" doesn't matter what you have on your hip if you get ambushed. But in a fight where you start with your gun in your hand the only reason someone is outgunned with a revolver is due to their mind!

Again a choice is a choice and while there are several variances between them if they work for the other guy/gal then they aren't wrong!

 

[FergusonTO35]

Well spoken!! I have a goal for myself to become a very good revolver shooter. Shooting a nice cluster double action is a great feeling.

 

[wild_weasel]

I use the Remington 38 Special +P 158gr LSWC HP in both my S&W M-10 and M-49. Using this ammo they both shoot to point of aim.