357 Sig

[Yawn]

Hey all,

I am thinking through what my next semi will be. I would like to get something that has a little more outdoorsy bandwidth to it, but still a semi. Let me disqualify two categories... I literally couldn't shoot within 10 - 20 feet of a target 25 feet away from me with a large caliber revolver... .44 Magnum. I mean, I literally through lead almost straight up in the air. 9mm I am shot fine. My SR45, I can consistently put two to the chest and third head shot in rapid fire. But if there is too much recoil, I truly couldn't defend myself against a raccoon! So, I am thinking the .50 cal and 10mm are probably out for me. No, I actually have not shot those calibers... But my friends who have (and those on this forum) have all discussed the big kick from them. I am the reason .40SW was invented. I know it... Move on.

I am however, very good with a .357 magnum (got nothing as to why) and have heard many feel that that is the .380 of the outdoors... The lowest that one should go to defend, but still acceptable most often. I can live with that right now... Since shot placement is King and I beyond suck with large calibers... And have for years!

Shot a GPH in .357 magnum and was tapping bullseye repeatedly from yards and yards away. I was very surprised how well I was shooting with that. Soooo... As I have been reading, I am leaning to the .357 sig as it was designed to be the .357mag of the semi world. But, I have never shot it, and don't know anyone who has it (including the range here)... So please don't tell me to go shoot it... Not yet anyway. So, any of you who have shot 9mm or .45ACP or .357 magnum, AND then also .357 sig... Will you talk with me about your perceptions of the cartridge and how it handled?

One last thing... I have never shot +P+. But I notice that +P+ 9MM will yield similar ballistics as the .357 sig (since the .357 sig is basically a super charged 9mm, and +P+ is also a supercharged 9mm). So, anyone shot +P+ 9mm (not out of your 1st gen LC9) and .357 magnum... Will you talk with me about your perceptions of the two and how they handled?

Thanks everyone!

 

[blume357]

Don't really have a clue, to be honest... but reading your last statement... I'd stay away from +P+ and go with the 357sig if that's what you really want to do....

 

[WendyZXZ]

We have a Springfield Armory XD in .357 SIG and I got my husband a .357 conversion barrel for his S&W M&P .40 and both are great shooting pistols. The caliber does have a fair amount of muzzle flip and it quite noisy but it is a fun shooting caliber.

 

[22/45 Fan]

One last thing... I have never shot +P+. But I notice that +P+ 9MM will yield similar ballistics as the .357 sig (since the .357 sig is basically a super charged 9mm, and +P+ is also a supercharged 9mm). So, anyone shot +P+ 9mm (not out of your 1st gen LC9) and .357 magnum... Will you talk with me about your perceptions of the two and how they handled?

No manufacturer, repeat NO manufacturer, will sanction the use of +P+ ammo in their pistols since neither they nor the shooter knows what it is. There is no SAAMI spec for +P+ so you can be getting anything, including dangerously overpressure ammo. If you want as close to .357 Mag performance as you can safely get in a semi-auto you need a .357 Sig or a .38 Super.

 

[Yawn]

Don't really have a clue, to be honest... but reading your last statement... I'd stay away from +P+ and go with the 357sig if that's what you really want to do....

I will say I love the open honesty in your posts. Why stay away from +P+?

Never one, just read 22's post. That makes sense.

 

[Yawn]

We have a Springfield Armory XD in .357 SIG and I got my husband a .357 conversion barrel for his S&W M&P .40 and both are great shooting pistols. The caliber does have a fair amount of muzzle flip and it quite noisy but it is a fun shooting caliber.

Good post... Quite a bit of muzzle flip compared to what?

Good tag line quote. Ministered to me by the way.

 

[19ontheslide]

So, any of you who have shot 9mm or .45ACP or .357 magnum, AND then also .357 sig... Will you talk with me about your perceptions of the cartridge and how it handled?

I had never shot a .357 Sig until I became a highway patrolman, and it was my issued duty weapon (Sig P229), being previously a .45 ACP and 9mm guy when it came to self-loaders (never had any interest in the .40 personally). I certainly have nothing bad to say about the round; it performed well and was very flat-shooting from what we could tell. It is quite blasty at the muzzle, so much so that we had to constantly be re-hanging targets after each string of contact distance drills on the range. The muzzle blast would just disintegrate the paper in 1 or 2 rounds. I don't recall it being particularly heavy recoiling, though. FWIW.

 

[mohavesam]

Had a sigma converted and it still runs perfectly after years. Plenty of punch on plates and milk jugs comparatively . one load I bought gave quite a flameshow.

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

In most platforms, 10mm. Is a pussycat compared to .44 mag and .50AE, I've shot them all.

10mm. Is a lot like a .41 mag. It's really not that bad.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Hey Yawn, I don't own a 357 Sig pistol but I have fired a fair amount of them. I would recommend trying out one with a barrel closer to 5", anything under 4" is a bit of a load to fire quickly and shoot a good deal of ammo over a period of time. The grip should be a good aggressive profile to allow you to hang on to the pistol well. The recoil is similar to a .40SW but as has been said it is a bit blasty. I really do want to get a pistol in 357 Sig but I haven't found a pistol that I find acceptable as far as repeat ability of shots or one I like the features on all that much. I said quite awhile back that it would make a great round for a submachine gun. If CZ made an SP-01 in 357 Sig I would probably be all over it. I did get to shoot a custom conversion of a P-06 and liked it but the 3.9" barrel kind of took some of the fun out of it after the fourth mag or so.

 

[Dave P.]

Not a lot of help, but here's what I got.....
I had a Glock 26 9mm and a friend with a Glock 33, same gun in .357sig.
The .357 had more blast/noise, but never felt much if any more
recoil vs. 124 +P in the 9mm.
I'm not sure what heavier weight bullets are avail. vs. .357mag in
a revolver.
I've shot a Glock 20 in 10mm with 180 grain loads that seemed pretty
"soft" to shoot. I would suggest finding one somehow just to
try before ruling it out.
Dave

 

[kwh]

Bought a used S&W M&P 40 S&W. Bought a .357 SIG conversion barrel. Drop in; and functions fine. As stated above, .357 louder blast with recoil about the same. The M&P pistol has 3 different sized grips,allowing to custom fit hand size which helps control muzzle flip. For me, with small hands, I had more flip with middle sized grip insert compared to the smallest grip.
I purchased the above during the last "ammo shortage" just so I would have access to two additional calibers. For outdoor use I prefer the .45ACP +P to either the 40 S&W or .357 SIG, unless I was shooting at "long range" targets ,in which case I like the 357 SIG.
All of this is just my personal opinion.

 

[WendyZXZ]

We have a Springfield Armory XD in .357 SIG and I got my husband a .357 conversion barrel for his S&W M&P .40 and both are great shooting pistols. The caliber does have a fair amount of muzzle flip and it quite noisy but it is a fun shooting caliber.

Good post... Quite a bit of muzzle flip compared to what?

Good tag line quote. Ministered to me by the way.

More muzzle flip than the other semis we have but that is to be expected when comparing the ballistics of the .357 SIG to the 9mm, .40 caliber and .45 ACP.

 

[Yawn]

So, any of you who have shot 9mm or .45ACP or .357 magnum, AND then also .357 sig... Will you talk with me about your perceptions of the cartridge and how it handled?

I had never shot a .357 Sig until I became a highway patrolman, and it was my issued duty weapon (Sig P229), being previously a .45 ACP and 9mm guy when it came to self-loaders (never had any interest in the .40 personally). I certainly have nothing bad to say about the round; it performed well and was very flat-shooting from what we could tell. It is quite blasty at the muzzle, so much so that we had to constantly be re-hanging targets after each string of contact distance drills on the range. The muzzle blast would just disintegrate the paper in 1 or 2 rounds. I don't recall it being particularly heavy recoiling, though. FWIW.

That is GOOD info... I have a similar handgun experience to yours. I don't mind loud or blasty, but I am concerned with recoil. Your post helped.

 

[Yawn]

Hey Yawn, I don't own a 357 Sig pistol but I have fired a fair amount of them. I would recommend trying out one with a barrel closer to 5", anything under 4" is a bit of a load to fire quickly and shoot a good deal of ammo over a period of time. The grip should be a good aggressive profile to allow you to hang on to the pistol well. The recoil is similar to a .40SW but as has been said it is a bit blasty. I really do want to get a pistol in 357 Sig but I haven't found a pistol that I find acceptable as far as repeat ability of shots or one I like the features on all that much. I said quite awhile back that it would make a great round for a submachine gun. If CZ made an SP-01 in 357 Sig I would probably be all over it. I did get to shoot a custom conversion of a P-06 and liked it but the 3.9" barrel kind of took some of the fun out of it after the fourth mag or so.

That is a great call... 5" barrel. That would probably help a ton with recoil and muzzle flip. I am concerned like you about follow up shots as well. I like the sig 1911 for this. I would think a crisp 1911 trigger would help with the follow up shots.

 

[Yawn]

In most platforms, 10mm. Is a pussycat compared to .44 mag and .50AE, I've shot them all.

10mm. Is a lot like a .41 mag. It's really not that bad.

My point was myself and heavy load big bore firearms are not friends. I wont fully rule it out, but I truly doubt it.

Not a lot of help, but here's what I got.....
I had a Glock 26 9mm and a friend with a Glock 33, same gun in .357sig.
The .357 had more blast/noise, but never felt much if any more
recoil vs. 124 +P in the 9mm.
I'm not sure what heavier weight bullets are avail. vs. .357mag in
a revolver.
I've shot a Glock 20 in 10mm with 180 grain loads that seemed pretty
"soft" to shoot. I would suggest finding one somehow just to
try before ruling it out.
Dave

That is helpful. wouldn't that 10mm load be considered a soft load though?

Bought a used S&W M&P 40 S&W. Bought a .357 SIG conversion barrel. Drop in; and functions fine. As stated above, .357 louder blast with recoil about the same. The M&P pistol has 3 different sized grips,allowing to custom fit hand size which helps control muzzle flip. For me, with small hands, I had more flip with middle sized grip insert compared to the smallest grip.
I purchased the above during the last "ammo shortage" just so I would have access to two additional calibers. For outdoor use I prefer the .45ACP +P to either the 40 S&W or .357 SIG, unless I was shooting at "long range" targets ,in which case I like the 357 SIG.
All of this is just my personal opinion.

Define outdoor use? Such as "on the trail"? Why?

We have a Springfield Armory XD in .357 SIG and I got my husband a .357 conversion barrel for his S&W M&P .40 and both are great shooting pistols. The caliber does have a fair amount of muzzle flip and it quite noisy but it is a fun shooting caliber.

Good post... Quite a bit of muzzle flip compared to what?

Good tag line quote. Ministered to me by the way.

More muzzle flip than the other semis we have but that is to be expected when comparing the ballistics of the .357 SIG to the 9mm, .40 caliber and .45 ACP.

Which is to be expected, but is also my concern. But, I am assuming all of those are 4" barrels. If a 5" would negate the extra muzzle flip... I think that would be my firearm!

 

[Dave P.]

Yawn,
In the Glock 20 I've fired a bunch of 180 grain Remington and Federal.
The Federals were a little weak. Also shot a box of Buffalo Bore "HEAVY"
180 grain, these had more noise and recoil compared to the others.
In the Glock it was less harsh than some smaller framed revolvers
with full power .357 mag loads. Way short of full power .44mag.
My point with the 10mm is you can choose from a wide variety of
loads, not sure the .357sig will allow that.
For me the .357sig is very limited on bullet weights, seems like
a "one trick pony" , that being fast 125 grain offerings.
Dave

 

[Yawn]

Yawn,
In the Glock 20 I've fired a bunch of 180 grain Remington and Federal.
The Federals were a little weak. Also shot a box of Buffalo Bore "HEAVY"
180 grain, these had more noise and recoil compared to the others.
In the Glock it was less harsh than some smaller framed revolvers
with full power .357 mag loads. Way short of full power .44mag.
My point with the 10mm is you can choose from a wide variety of
loads, not sure the .357sig will allow that.
For me the .357sig is very limited on bullet weights, seems like
a "one trick pony" , that being fast 125 grain offerings.
Dave

Agreed...but that is my concern. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that there are 10mm rounds that ballisticly aren't much different then a loaded.40. And they have .40 rounds running like a 9. I don't want a 10mm that isn't a 10mm... At that point I should get the gun that fires e round that I am really firing.

I can't fire a 44mag with any salt. I am golden with a .357 magnum. So, I am trying to gauge which round is closest to that and en start from there.

 

[Yawn]

Wendy.... The conversion thing has my attention. No real love for the .40sw... Though no real hate for it either. I would leave the conversion as a 357, but could revert it back if needed to sell. Still liking the 1911 platform though for a .357 or 10mm. Torn!!!

 

[martyj]

Hard to experience what a good round the 10mm is until you get the old Norma ammo.
I like the 357 sig but the ammo cost as much as 10mm. Get the 10mm and buy a 9x25 dillon barrel if you want more velocity.

 

[22/45 Fan]

Hard to experience what a good round the 10mm is until you get the old Norma ammo.

Yeah, I remember that stuff. It's the ammo that beat those early Colt Delta Elites to death way prematurely. The velocities and pressures were up there with full power .41 Magnums and the guns wouldn't take it.

 

[revhigh]

Yawn,
In the Glock 20 I've fired a bunch of 180 grain Remington and Federal.
The Federals were a little weak. Also shot a box of Buffalo Bore "HEAVY"
180 grain, these had more noise and recoil compared to the others.
In the Glock it was less harsh than some smaller framed revolvers
with full power .357 mag loads. Way short of full power .44mag.
My point with the 10mm is you can choose from a wide variety of
loads, not sure the .357sig will allow that.
For me the .357sig is very limited on bullet weights, seems like
a "one trick pony" , that being fast 125 grain offerings.
Dave

Agreed...but that is my concern. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that there are 10mm rounds that ballisticly aren't much different then a loaded.40. And they have .40 rounds running like a 9. I don't want a 10mm that isn't a 10mm... At that point I should get the gun that fires e round that I am really firing.

I can't fire a 44mag with any salt. I am golden with a .357 magnum. So, I am trying to gauge which round is closest to that and en start from there.

10 mm is just a hot .40. Or .40 is just a weak 10mm. My impressions were that the 10mm G20 was like a 357 magnum 9mm auto .... No big deal ... No reason to have it ... Which is why I sold it shortly after acquiring it. Great gun ... Just not interesting or accurate enough for my tastes.

IMO ... .40, 10 mm, 357sig, 327 Ruger, federal blah blah blah .... etc etc. don't do a damn thing better than 9mm, 357 mag, and 45 acp. If you just want a new caliber ... Fine, but there's nothing special about them.

Why not just stick with 357 mag or 9mm ?

REV

 

[Yawn]

I don't have a 357 mag... I have shot it and shot it well. I would like a semi equivalent to the 357mag, for the trail, with the same power but also same soft shot. Outside of that, I couldn't agree more with you for normal everyday use.

Ps... Was looking at other rounds the other day and now that I carry .45, I can't believe how small these other rounds look. Just an anecdotal side note.

 

[sargents1]

Hey all,

I am thinking through what my next semi will be. I would like to get something that has a little more outdoorsy bandwidth to it, but still a semi. Let me disqualify two categories... I literally couldn't shoot within 10 - 20 feet of a target 25 feet away from me with a large caliber revolver... .44 Magnum. I mean, I literally through lead almost straight up in the air. 9mm I am shot fine. My SR45, I can consistently put two to the chest and third head shot in rapid fire. But if there is too much recoil, I truly couldn't defend myself against a raccoon! So, I am thinking the .50 cal and 10mm are probably out for me. No, I actually have not shot those calibers... But my friends who have (and those on this forum) have all discussed the big kick from them. I am the reason .40SW was invented. I know it... Move on.

I am however, very good with a .357 magnum (got nothing as to why) and have heard many feel that that is the .380 of the outdoors... The lowest that one should go to defend, but still acceptable most often. I can live with that right now... Since shot placement is King and I beyond suck with large calibers... And have for years!

Shot a GPH in .357 magnum and was tapping bullseye repeatedly from yards and yards away. I was very surprised how well I was shooting with that. Soooo... As I have been reading, I am leaning to the .357 sig as it was designed to be the .357mag of the semi world. But, I have never shot it, and don't know anyone who has it (including the range here)... So please don't tell me to go shoot it... Not yet anyway. So, any of you who have shot 9mm or .45ACP or .357 magnum, AND then also .357 sig... Will you talk with me about your perceptions of the cartridge and how it handled?

One last thing... I have never shot +P+. But I notice that +P+ 9MM will yield similar ballistics as the .357 sig (since the .357 sig is basically a super charged 9mm, and +P+ is also a supercharged 9mm). So, anyone shot +P+ 9mm (not out of your 1st gen LC9) and .357 magnum... Will you talk with me about your perceptions of the two and how they handled?

Thanks everyone!

Yawn,

As others here have mentioned, you shouldn't rule out a 10mm.
If you are able to handle a .357mag you can probably handle a 10mm.

10mm loads available range from 40S&W power on up to almost 41mag. To put it in terms of energy you are looking at 400ft-lbs up to 750ft-lbs and everything in between with factory loads.

I find that the ones that range 500 to 600ft-bs are very manageable.

Or if you want to really get silly you can get an extended 6in+ Lone Wolf barrel and run 155gr bullets at 1600ft/s +. I had some running at a Chrono-verified 1650ft/s which works out to 936ft-lbs energy. And that load was 2-tenths of a grain under a Max book load.

Now, if you are recoil sensitive you will probably not like that load. It does have some wallop to it. But I bet you could handle that same bullet at 1300 - 1400ft/s which is nothing to sneeze at.

The Glock 20 (and the new 40) both are relatively big, heavy autoloaders and because of that they handle recoil very well. A G20 pushing 500ft-lbs of 180gr 10mm goodness kicks less (to me) than a S&W M&P40 throwing the same bullet at lower velocity for ~400ft-lbs. And it's all down to weight (the G20 weighs more), the recoil spring (the G20 has a heavier) and grip shape (the G20 is wider, more surface area).

So you want a woodsy autoloader that won't beat you up but can take care of business - Get a Glock 20

Plus you can get a 40S&W barrel for it and use that for cheap target practice. Barrels from Lone Wolf run about 100$ (I have three for mine)

Full disclosure: Just in case you didnt catch on - I am a Glock 10mm fanboy.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Yawn.... as you ask for opinions on the .357 SIG as a cartridge to walk around with, I'll try to avoid mention of other rounds. Which isn't easy, as demonstrated by earlier responders. All cartridges have parents and ancestors; and for performing tasks most have competition .

Soon after SIG/Sauer of America released the necked-down .40 S&W, a couple of LEOs asked for my take. Having no experience with the round, I shrugged it off. Immediately upon having a SIG P229 in my hands and shooting it, I commented an appreciation for its accuracy and low recoil. Trying at the time a spectrum of factory loads, only one came up short. Hornady 147 JHP produced rather miserable accuracy. I suspect the long 147 grain bullet doesn't like the very short neck of .357 SIG case.

Federal 125 JHP produced superb accuracy, to the tune of 5x5 into 6-inches @ 100 yards from the stock 3.8" barrel of the P229 with Trijicon sights. Other rounds groups close to the Federal, including Hornady 125 JHP. No surprise to me, FMJ bullets were not quite as tight. Cor-Bon 115 and 125 grain JHP produced higher velocity, with diminished accuracy. Nevertheless, it was possible to keep all shots on a man silhouette @ 100 yards.

Took the P229 and Federal .357 SIG 125 JHP to an IHMSA silhouette championship in New Hampshire, having never shot a chicken, pig, turkey, or ram with the little pistol. Shooting Creedmoor, the stinking 3.8-inch barrel and fixed sights toppled 7x10 turkeys at 165 yards! Prior to that, I hadn't fired a round at over 100 yards. 5x10 or 6x10 rams bit the dust @ 220 yards.

The .357 SIG seems perfectly scaled to a .40 S&W-length frame, slide, and magazine. A SIG .40 S&W barrel drops right in. Same gun, same recoil spring, same magazine, same perfect reliability. (.40 JHP groups of five shots average around 9" @ 100 yards, with more drop.) I consider the P229 .357/.40 and 2-in-one gun.

The .357 SIG is less interesting from a sub-compact Glock 33 or 27 where, in comparison with the .40 S&W, recoil of the .357 is rather nasty. The P229 tames the .357 SIG, and does so with a far less blast than a .357 Mag.
David Bradshaw