Proposed New Caliber.

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Ranger said:
How long? I don't know. I probably wouldn't. Had to have surgery on my dominant wrist / hand. They took out bone and installed plate with bunch of screws. I'm just now back to point where can shoot .44 mags without too much pain.
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It might not be for the Geriatric set here. I would probably be pushing it at this point but then as far as I know I was the only one who ever fired the 20mm portable prototype 30 years ago. It seemed like a good idea at the time. It rolled me about 10-15' or so. Felt like being hit by a car. I've fired the equivalent of a 45/100 out of muzzleloading pistols. A range master who thought I was performing had his middle finger wrapped backwards around the trigger guard. I went with the Dan Wesson back in the 80's due to its Mad Science Potential. 330gr at 1,400 fps out of a custom barrel that had them near MOA out to 200 was Mad Science at its best.
 
Ruger rarely introduces new cartridges, @Hvymax - you have a lot more capabilities than the average gun owner, so maybe you should build something yourself (rather than wait on Ruger, who will probably never get around to it ;^). I'm definitely on the average part of the gun owner curve, and even I came up with a practical wildcat cartridge when I was younger. Plus, you have the ideal name for your new cartridge(s) and gun(s), just call them the (fill-in-the-blank) HvyMax!
:)
 
the_leper_colony said:
Ruger rarely introduces new cartridges, @Hvymax - you have a lot more capabilities than the average gun owner, so maybe you should build something yourself (rather than wait on Ruger, who will probably never get around to it ;^). I'm definitely on the average part of the gun owner curve, and even I came up with a practical wildcat cartridge when I was younger. Plus, you have the ideal name for your new cartridge(s) and gun(s), just call them the (fill-in-the-blank) HvyMax!
:)
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I could probably mill out a decent revolver frame and even a barrel sleeve and cylinder in a few years. Not to mention the heat treatment etc to contain such pressures. I'm sure I could take an old NEF super hunter in 45/70 and work up the load in a few days. Of course I would eventually need a custom barrel with a twist rate and cut that made the most of the rounds potential.
My point is that Ruger with a few Engineers and Machinists could produce the Ultra Redhawk by the end of the week. Just a few X/Y changes to the Super Redhawk program would be all it would take to produce the frame and cylinder. Ream out the longest available barrel in the shop for a sleeve and tension setup. Then start with the available barrel stock to the 454 Cassul and they could have a working prototype in a few days. The faster bullets might need a different twist and cut to maximize accuracy but again barrel tubes can be swapped in minutes with the sleeved barrel setup. The Engineers could probably spec out a few custom barrel blanks in an hour or two playing with ballistic programs and have the barrels ready about the same time as the frames. A few days dialing in loads and choosing a muzzle brake like the Taurus and S&W customs and these could be ready for the SHOT Show.
 
Hvymax said:
There's always a market for the Most Powerful anything!!! A few companies make 50bmg pistols!!!
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But the cost of Ruger's toolup is what matters... building the prototypes, the exhaustive testing, and on and on... so that the company doesn't end up being responsibile for a lawsuit in the millions of dollars or tens of millions because of negligence of product design.
And then actual toolup for production. You would have to sell a lot of .50 BMG revolvers to make any profit at all... or have an outlandish MSRP on such a novelty to make it pay for itself. I don't know about anybody else... but don't count me in for being on a list of people who want a handgun in .50 BMG. Probably great for taking pics while somebody else fires it, but practical??? I think not.
I am reminded of the video you can find on utube of the big bearded fellow with cowboy hat who tried out a Thompson Contender chambered for .600NE. Look the video up. He started off with a two hand hold, but then decided to go one hand. I'm thinking a .50 BMG would be much worse.
Chet15
 
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Perhaps I am naive but I fail to see the need for another BIG cartridge from Ruger. They already make revolvers in calibers that will take down most everything that walks or crawls in North America. They have 480, 454, and 44 mag as well as "Ruger only" loads in 45LC. I guess that there are 'recoil junkies' that need to say that "I can handle a 700-5000" but they are few and far between.
 
I've only met one person who owned a .500 S&W revolver. He owned his own business, liked shooting, and was doing well enough that he could collect Smith handguns. He wasn't shy about recoil - he carried a lightweight Smith .44 Mag and a .460 Roland. But he told me his .460 S&W revolver was about as much handgun as he was willing to shoot, and he wasn't ever planning to take the .500 X-frame to the range.

In some ways, the market for handguns (& the ammunition they consume) is inversely proportional to the recoil they generate. There are tens of thousands of .22s sold every year, and billions of rounds of .22 LR, but you might be able to get all of the new .500 S&W owners together in a big room somewhere. If you actually produced a monster handgun (like the .50 BMG mentioned), you might be able to get all of the new owners together in a tour bus, for a trip to SHOT show...
:)
 
Fox Mike said:
Perhaps I am naive but I fail to see the need for another BIG cartridge from Ruger. They already make revolvers in calibers that will take down most everything that walks or crawls in North America. They have 480, 454, and 44 mag as well as "Ruger only" loads in 45LC. I guess that there are 'recoil junkies' that need to say that "I can handle a 700-5000" but they are few and far between.
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You've obviously never shot IHMSA. Much like racing there's no such thing as Too Much Power!!! Just how the crap am I going to hook it all up!!!
 
I guess some folks may be interested but we have a 460 S&W and I can't think of anything that I would need more power in a revolver. Smith must have done some serious testing or were incredibly lucky because of how accurate they are. One of the big selling points of the 460 is its accuracy and any competition would be held against that standard. I mean how many production line revolvers will group under 2 inches at 100 yards? The 460 will.

It would be nice to see Ruger chamber a revolver in 460 and that may get some interest. The other issue with new calibers is how support (ammo, brass, etc) often falls away after a few years. Look at rounds like the 375 Win, 7mm WSM, etc where ammo soon dried up. YMMV
 
That's because they found a twist rate and rifling cut that works with the available commercial ammo. If you tried some 450gr subsonics it might change slightly. My intended design would chamber 460 as well. At this point just matching what everyone else is doing isn't accomplishing anything. If they showed up at SHOT with this it would probably be Gun of the Year!!! The ease of producing it even on a small scale would make it silly not to. Ruger could be on top of the Power Wars after a few decades. The 480 was too little too late. Who knows you could still stuff a 410 shell in it as well 😂🤣😂🤣
 
Our revolver has never had a commercial round shot from it. I do think it was designed to work best in the 200-250 grain range.

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Springer2 said:
Our revolver has never had a commercial round shot from it. I do think it was designed to work best in the 200-250 grain range.

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Well like most hand loaders you dialed the load in to the gun. It's easy to get accuracy like that when everything is dialed in. I frequently found myself doing the opposite I would decide what my desired load would be and started ordering custom barrels till I found one that worked with my loads😂🤣😂🤣
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Hvymax said:
... Much like racing there's no such thing as Too Much Power!!! Just how the crap am I going to hook it all up!!!
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Hooking it up can be a problem. Was acquainted with a gentleman years ago, who had worked in the aerospace industry. When he retired from that, one of the things he spent time on was building tractors for 'tractor pull' events. He showed me one of his vehicles when I was out at his ranch: twin V-8 engines, each with twin turbo chargers (providing maximum boost in different RPM ranges). He had everything connected to the drive wheels through an automatic transmission; he said he consistently won events, IF his transmission held together.

That gent I mentioned with the .500 X-frame also had a single shot .30-06 handgun; the company that made it apparently also advertized the same model as being available in .257 Weatherby Magnum (hows that for a "flagship" handgun? ;^). I doubt the company sold very many in either chambering, since they're no longer in business - apparently there weren't enough gun owners interested in that kind of power in a handgun, even when they could afford the firearm and ammunition. Definitely a niche market, like 'tractor pull' tractors, and I would be very surprised if Ruger started producing either one...
:)
 
Why did Honda make the Rune??? They lost tens of thousands on each one sold but to date it's one of the most fabulous examples of moto art. So Ruger could march into SHOT Show and whip it out, look around and say definitively that Mines Bigger!!! It would be on every magazine cover and every YouTube channel. Bill never would have stood for S&W making a more powerful revolver than he could. He's probably rolling in his grave every time a 460 or 500 is fired.
 
FLUndertaker said:
45/70 is an old black powder cartridge. I don't have the specs handy, is it even as powerful as the S&W .460 magnum currently? Bigger case doesn't always mean more power.
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In it's default loading, no. It's way down on power.

However, there are many Lever Action and "Ruger only" loadings for it that may eclipse the .460 XVR.
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And for the 45/70 in a "Modern Rifle":



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Yeah, there is a huge difference in barrel length, but the 45/70 has so many more bullet choices going for it.
 

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SootyGrouse said:
I would love something in 475 linebaugh, 500 Linebaugh or even 500 JRH. They all use a shorter cylinder.
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From what I found, not too many 475 revolvers are built lately. Majority are custom guns with one of those .500 that fit Ruger NM SA frame.

As for 500 JRH, I would be more than happy to see some sort of 500 Ruger Magnum with case length same as standard revolver magnum cartridges. As for pressure, standard magnum ones will be more than enough. And, of course, cylinder same length as on Redhawk. Even "moderate load" with 400-450 grains bullet is still very formidable, with recoil that goes with it, and I would like to have long cylinder in case bullet moves forward.
 
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Onty said:
From what I found, not too many 475 revolvers are built lately. Majority are custom guns with one of those .500 that fit Ruger NM SA frame.

As for 500 JRH, I would be more than happy to see some sort of 500 Ruger Magnum with case length same as standard revolver magnum cartridges. As for pressure, standard magnum ones will be more than enough. And, of course, cylinder same length as on Redhawk. Even with "moderate loads" with 400-450 grains bullet is still very formidable, with recoil that goes with it, and I would like to have long cylinder in case bullet moves forward.
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Again nothing but eclipsed also rans. Lead, Follow or Die under everyone else's wheels. Rugers latest only accomplishment was making a Glock Copy that normal people can use. If Ruger put that effort into a solid DA/SA set of modules and stuck with and developed them like Glock did with their designs Ruger could be a more dominant force. The Super Redhawk after all these years like most Ruger Revolvers is a Tank. That's it's significance. Unfortunately it's been left in the dust because it's considered a Minor Caliber by today's standards.
 
Well they could build a stretch frame Redhawk and chamber it for 500 Bushwhacker. It'll be a safe queen supreme like the BFR version I have, but they would definitely be able to beat S&W. As part of the marketing they could even include a Ruger logo helmet and band-aids.
 
Bigbore5 said:
Well they could build a stretch frame Redhawk and chamber it for 500 Bushwhacker. It'll be a safe queen supreme like the BFR version I have, but they would definitely be able to beat S&W. As part of the marketing they could even include a Ruger logo helmet and band-aids.
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If you could chamber the 500S&W as the wimp option it would be perfect. I chose 45/70ish because I want it to have plenty of wimp options like the 460, 454 and 45 colt. You wouldn't always have to go full power and you would be able to stuff 410 shotgun shells in it as well!!!
I think that making the S&W rounds one of the wimp options would really make a STATEMENT!!! Like well aren't those cute??? Hold my beer. If Bill was still alive if he hadn't already done this he would have All Hands working to get this to SHOT Show!!! Does anyone even remember why the Super Redhawk Exists??? Because IHMSA shooters were getting flame cut frames on the regular Redhawks. Bill said F that and beefed the crap out of the Redhawk. It did turn out to be a simple metallurgical problem but screw it. Back in the 80's The Super Redhawk and Dan Wesson's were the only guns that could handle hurling 330gr "44 magnums" because they made the cylinders longer and heavied up the cylinder locking mechanism just to put S&W over his knee and spank them. Until the X frame S&W couldn't touch a Ruger!!! So making the S&W one of the Lightweight options would absolutely make a STATEMENT. Being able to chamber Lever actions and bolt actions for this would be awesome as well. The actual power factor would have to exceed even modern only 45/70 somewhat but freaking hey. If you want to hang with the Big Boys you have to be able to up their game.
 
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steveodtw said:
Ammo mfg. seems to be either one-upsmanship (mine's bigger) or just filling in the gaps. Seldom do they create a new round because it's better, or needed.
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I agree. I shot silhouette back in the 80s-90s and that sport really is an acid test for handgun performance. You are shooting out to 200 meters (accuracy) and needed to knock over a 50+ lb steel ram (power). I started out with my Ruger SB 44 mag which had enough power but not real flat shooting. When the 357 Max came out, it quickly went to the top of the heap in revolver class. A lot of Ruger 357 max revolvers at first but they were overtaken by Dan Wessons when Ruger stopped production.

Later an odd caliber started to make its presence felt and that was the 375 Super Mag. While my 357 max was doing fine, I had to get a 375 SM. That revolver was the perfect balance of flat shooting, power, light recoil, and accuracy. I still have it and would never consider selling it but, on point of this thread, it was never popular no matter how good it was. Because you can make brass from 30-30 Win cases you will always have ammo but I would be shocked if any company started producing 375 SMs no matter how good it is. The drive behind new calibers is hard to pin down and not necessarily based on logic.
 
I have fired the S&W 500 owned by a guy who has to have the biggest, bad assed and bragging fodder of everything. If S&W came up with a revolver firing a 5" cannon round he would buy the first one in town. If a new huge gun and ammo come out there will be a sector of people who will buy it.
 
Springer2 said:
I agree. I shot silhouette back in the 80s-90s and that sport really is an acid test for handgun performance. You are shooting out to 200 meters (accuracy) and needed to knock over a 50+ lb steel ram (power). I started out with my Ruger SB 44 mag which had enough power but not real flat shooting. When the 357 Max came out, it quickly went to the top of the heap in revolver class. A lot of Ruger 357 max revolvers at first but they were overtaken by Dan Wessons when Ruger stopped production.

Later an odd caliber started to make its presence felt and that was the 375 Super Mag. While my 357 max was doing fine, I had to get a 375 SM. That revolver was the perfect balance of flat shooting, power, light recoil, and accuracy. I still have it and would never consider selling it but, on point of this thread, it was never popular no matter how good it was. Because you can make brass from 30-30 Win cases you will always have ammo but I would be shocked if any company started producing 375 SMs no matter how good it is. The drive behind new calibers is hard to pin down and not necessarily based on logic.
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Remember the power wars in the early 80's? Dan Wesson and Super Redhawkers were pushing "44 magnums" to the point that Dick Cassul had to raise the anty. Then that started a whole nother level of power wars. Now S&W who was always the lightweight of the heavies has taken charge. Bill Rugers Super Redhawk held it's crown for Decades until the X frame. Now I believe S&W needs to be put back in their place.
Once 40 some years ago I was heading back to the shop after a job on my CB 750 Superbike punched out to 836 and I noticed a Porsche was pulling away from me. I thought there was something wrong with the bike and I kept giving it gas trying to keep up with what I thought was traffic. When I noticed that we were doing 130 I decided to punch it and leave him behind. Evidently my boss saw the encounter and asked me what that was all about. I told him that I was putting him in his place. My boss asked where that was. I said behind me. That's why I ride a KLR 650 instead of a ZG1400 Concourse now. It wasn't don't lead me into temptation it was pry me off it's back!!!
 
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