New non-Ruger pistola first impressions

noahmercy

Blackhawk
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Jun 13, 2015
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Sheridan, WY
Many moons ago, I read an article in a Shooter's Bible or Gun Digest (I disremember which) about an "orthopedic" handgun. The author was looking for the best choice for someone with bad arthritis, weak muscles, or other physical limitations which could make it difficult to manipulate a firearm. He also felt the usual recommendation of the time (a rimfire) lacked sufficient fight stopping ability. Double action revolvers require a strong trigger finger to fire double action, and dexterity to fire single.

The firearm he concluded was a best choice was the Beretta 86, a tip-up barrel 380 ACP pistol. Loading did not require retracting the slide, capacity was better than a revolver, recoil was mild, and the cartridge was on par with the 38 Special loads most law enforcement carried at the time. It could be fired DA/SA, or carried cocked and locked.

Seemed like a well-reasoned argument for that Beretta.

I occasionally take elderly individuals- many of them women- to the range, and some of them want a personal defense gun. Since a lot of them suffer from lack of strength or advanced arthritis, the thought occurred about a year ago that adding a Beretta 86 to the stable might make sense, so they could see if it was something user-friendly for them.

Yeah, no. Prices have gone through the roof in the last few years! Just not practical for them to fall in love with a pistol that is hard-to-find and potentially beyond their means.

So along comes EAA/Girsan. They just began producing a tip-barrel 380 that doesn't require selling a kidney to own, the MC 14T. Decent barrel length (3.8"), so the Hornady XTP I favor in this round will expand well and it has a good sight radius. 13+1 round capacity. Only a little over a pound and a half loaded, so not too heavy to hold comfortably, but enough weight so recoil shouldn't be an issue. Ambidextrous safety. Not nearly the beautiful finish as the Beretta guns, but for a nightstand or purse gun, it should be fine, and the ability to hang a light/laser under the frame might be nice for some.

I'm picking mine up tomorrow, and if there's any interest, I'll post up a review/range report...although the range report has to wait for the flood watch to go away and the mud to firm up a bit!
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I agree with him of his choice. I have Beretta 21A .22lr with the tip up barrel and I also have a Beretta 84F .380. The 86 is really a blending of the two Berettas. I like both of them. Beretta prices are high and curious how the EAA stacks up.
Congrats on your new pickup and Id like to read your thoughts on your new pistol.
 
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So just got back from the gun store with the Girsan, and had a chance to handle it a little.

So here are my first impressions:
Trigger: Double action is way better than I expected. Smooth, relatively light, and no hitches or stacking. Single action is not as good as I was expecting based on the DA! Not as light as I might like, but to be fair it is very smooth and has a reasonable length reset.
Grips: Stocks are comfortable, with good purchase due to the grooves, which have soft enough edges that it shouldn't abrade even soft skin. Front and backstrap have similar gentle vertical grooves. Beavertail is generous enough to prevent hammer bite or slide tracks on even the meatiest hands.
Sights: Basic three-dot setup, driftable rear, with a pretty small gap between the front post and sides of the rear notch.
Magazine: Quality Mec-Gar that seats positively and only has a little bit of fore/aft play at the base when seated. The single issue I have is the finger rest on the bottom doesn't leave a ton of room on the front strap for those with "chubby" fingers, and may require a little Dremel work to fit.
Controls: Ambidextrous safety goes on and off with a positive feel and sound. Levers are not too big, but large enough to easily manipulate. Barrel release is easy to use, and the arc it travels should make it difficult to accidentally activate. I can use my trigger finger to release it, but even someone with limited strength could easily pop the barrel up using a thumb. Magazine release is very positive, but has heavy spring tension, requiring a firm push to drop the mag (which virtually flies out of the mag well). Slide release...how to put this nicely? I had a hard time retracting the slide due to the massive spring tension (I wonder if they offer a 44 mag conversion barrel), and overcoming that tension with the well-shaped and -sized lever required a serious effort. I am hoping this will lessen with use, but right now it is a non-starter for someone with weak hands.
Barrel: Easy to push back into battery after loading. It doesn't pop up as high as I thought it would, which is fine, because the breech fully clears the slide, and the chamber has a smooth enough radius to make loading an easy affair. One feature I don't like visually is the hinge pin for the barrel. It protrudes quite a ways from the right side.
Takedown: About that...there are no directions for taking the gun down for a deep clean. Drop mag, pop barrel up, and lock slide back is as far as they recommend, so I suggest a top tier spray cleaner/lube like the Hornady One Shot to really flush all the crud out and leave a good rust preventative and lube behind.

All in all, I like the size, weight, and feel of this piece. Time (and round count) will tell if some of the parts will wear in some to allow it to be a true "orthopedic pistol".
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You should never have to release or manipulate the slide.

Pop the barrel put a round in the chamber and close it. First shot is double action.
After the shooter fires the last round in the magazine, the slide locks back. Dropping it requires a lot of force on the slide release lever. The only way I could determine this without firing the gun was by pulling the slide back manually, and I simply mentioned it required excessive effort. And the manual does say the chamber can be loaded by the traditional method of racking the slide, but there aren't a lot of white collar folks who could manage. 😉
 
After the shooter fires the last round in the magazine, the slide locks back. Dropping it requires a lot of force on the slide release lever. The only way I could determine this without firing the gun was by pulling the slide back manually, and I simply mentioned it required excessive effort. And the manual does say the chamber can be loaded by the traditional method of racking the slide, but there aren't a lot of white collar folks who could manage. 😉
Ok. I understand now. One solution is to count your shots and replace the magazine with one in the chamber. A good habit anyway. IMHO. Or disable the hold open feature, but that would require a loose round to put in the barrel

The spring is stiff because its a blow back design, nothing locks it into battery. If the spring weekens enough to be easy to rack, the gun probably isn’t safe to shoot. I believe 380 is usually considered the most powerful round for a blowback design.

I don’t think you could have the flip up barrel if it wasn’t a blow back mechanism.
I wish you had a Beretta to compare it to.

The 21a doesn’t have a hold open feature. I’m not sure about the .380 version.
 
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Ok. I understand now. One solution is to count your shots and replace the magazine with one in the chamber. A good habit anyway. IMHO. Or disable the hold open feature, but that would require a loose round to put in the barrel...

I'm guessing a decent gunsmith could probably adjust/polish the notch in the slide that the bolt catch engages, so that it still works reliably but releases with less effort - might be worth a talk, at least!

As always, IMHO, YMMV, FWIW, etc., etc.
:)
 
After the shooter fires the last round in the magazine, the slide locks back. Dropping it requires a lot of force on the slide release lever. The only way I could determine this without firing the gun was by pulling the slide back manually, and I simply mentioned it required excessive effort. And the manual does say the chamber can be loaded by the traditional method of racking the slide, but there aren't a lot of white collar folks who could manage. 😉
That’s the same with my 84F. Being blowback it is much harder to charge retracting the slide and maybe impossible for some to do with bad arthritis or elderly and to release the slide is a little more difficult then it should be but livable. in that sense they duplicated Beretta pretty darn well. Good review and enjoy your new piece.
 
Ok. I understand now. One solution is to count your shots and replace the magazine with one in the chamber. A good habit anyway. IMHO. Or disable the hold open feature, but that would require a loose round to put in the barrel

The spring is stiff because its a blow back design, nothing locks it into battery. If the spring weekens enough to be easy to rack, the gun probably isn’t safe to shoot. I believe 380 is usually considered the most powerful round for a blowback design.

I don’t think you could have the flip up barrel if it wasn’t a blow back mechanism.
I wish you had a Beretta to compare it to.

The 21a doesn’t have a hold open feature. I’m not sure about the .380 version.
Good points, partner.

You're absolutely right about the blowback action being necessary in a tip-up design. A firearm with an extractor would necessitate a groove in the breech of the barrel for clearance, and that would act like a lock, preventing the barrel from pivoting. I'm hoping the spring relaxes just a little, which would make racking the slide (especially with the hammer in the cocked position) at least possible for someone with moderate hand strength.

Apparently there is some gizzy that clips to the bottom of the magazine and holds a round so that it can be stripped off into the chamber. That, or something like it, might make eliminating the last shot hold open a solid choice for someone with seriously limited physical ability.
 
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The lack of an extractor is a serious flaw for a defense pistol, in my opinion. I have a Beretta 21a and if I have a dud cartridge it requires a bit of fiddling to get it out and reload the chamber. It’s basically been replaced by a Ruger LCP22 for snake duty pocket carry on the ranchito.

I’d suggest that a S&W .380EZ or 9EZ might be a better “orthopedic” pistol. Locked breech, so a much easier to operate slide, and possible to “tap-rack” in the event of a malfunction.
 
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I've been looking for one of these for several months as I have a hard time racking the slide on my Ruger Security 9. If you know where to get one let me know.
 
I've been looking for one of these for several months as I have a hard time racking the slide on my Ruger Security 9. If you know where to get one let me know.
If you have a Sportsman's Warehouse nearby, check their website. If they have them in stock, they will send one to a store in your state.
 
Is the slide release easier to operate if you tug back slightly on the slide as you thumb the release, taking the pressure off the spring?
It is, but I think it takes well over twenty pounds of force to retract the slide any, and there is very little area to grab on to. The flat sides of the slide are only .35" high. And if one retracts it much at all, there's no need to use the slide catch lever...the slide will slingshot forward on its own.I have been manipulating it and running the slide a bunch and it seems to be getting slightly better, so I still have hope it will be tolerable after a little use.
 
Many moons ago, I read an article in a Shooter's Bible or Gun Digest (I disremember which) about an "orthopedic" handgun. The author was looking for the best choice for someone with bad arthritis, weak muscles, or other physical limitations which could make it difficult to manipulate a firearm. He also felt the usual recommendation of the time (a rimfire) lacked sufficient fight stopping ability. Double action revolvers require a strong trigger finger to fire double action, and dexterity to fire single.

The firearm he concluded was a best choice was the Beretta 86, a tip-up barrel 380 ACP pistol. Loading did not require retracting the slide, capacity was better than a revolver, recoil was mild, and the cartridge was on par with the 38 Special loads most law enforcement carried at the time. It could be fired DA/SA, or carried cocked and locked.

Seemed like a well-reasoned argument for that Beretta.

I occasionally take elderly individuals- many of them women- to the range, and some of them want a personal defense gun. Since a lot of them suffer from lack of strength or advanced arthritis, the thought occurred about a year ago that adding a Beretta 86 to the stable might make sense, so they could see if it was something user-friendly for them.

Yeah, no. Prices have gone through the roof in the last few years! Just not practical for them to fall in love with a pistol that is hard-to-find and potentially beyond their means.

So along comes EAA/Girsan. They just began producing a tip-barrel 380 that doesn't require selling a kidney to own, the MC 14T. Decent barrel length (3.8"), so the Hornady XTP I favor in this round will expand well and it has a good sight radius. 13+1 round capacity. Only a little over a pound and a half loaded, so not too heavy to hold comfortably, but enough weight so recoil shouldn't be an issue. Ambidextrous safety. Not nearly the beautiful finish as the Beretta guns, but for a nightstand or purse gun, it should be fine, and the ability to hang a light/laser under the frame might be nice for some.

I'm picking mine up tomorrow, and if there's any interest, I'll post up a review/range report...although the range report has to wait for the flood watch to go away and the mud to firm up a bit!
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O Light has an awesome light/laser combo that's really compact. I have 3 of them. Zoom in on the bears forehead. Momentary switch so you don't have to broadcast your location till ready.
 

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Might check out the Ruger Security 380. Very easy to rack the slide. Plus, I think it's the only double-stack .380 on the market.
This Girsan is 13+1. If it turns out not to fulfil the "mission" I have envisioned for it, it will get sold down the road and I'll look for alternatives. Sadly, some of the folks I take to the range won't be able to rack a slide no matter how little effort it requires. Lack of hand strength or advanced arthritis means no way to pinch or grasp with enough strength to pull it back, hence my interest in the tip-up barrel loading/unloading feature.
 
It is, but I think it takes well over twenty pounds of force to retract the slide any, and there is very little area to grab on to. The flat sides of the slide are only .35" high. And if one retracts it much at all, there's no need to use the slide catch lever...the slide will slingshot forward on its own.I have been manipulating it and running the slide a bunch and it seems to be getting slightly better, so I still have hope it will be tolerable after a little use.
I find it easier if I simultaneously pull back the slide and push forward with my grip hand. Like the same way to start a chainsaw
 
I'm beginning to wonder if this gun is a good idea. Maybe I'll stick with my Security 380 and the slightly weaker spring in my Security 9.
 
This Girsan is 13+1. If it turns out not to fulfil the "mission" I have envisioned for it, it will get sold down the road and I'll look for alternatives. Sadly, some of the folks I take to the range won't be able to rack a slide no matter how little effort it requires. Lack of hand strength or advanced arthritis means no way to pinch or grasp with enough strength to pull it back, hence my interest in the tip-up barrel loading/unloading feature.
I would almost have to question their ability to present and fire it effectively.
 
I don't understand that... I have a good friend that is unable to rack any slide I've offered her..... I've always thought a tip up barrel made a lot of since, I had one of those bobcats years ago and actually passed a 25 cal one to a friend a while back too... this sounds like a good choice for the elderly to me.

Noahmercy, Your review of it was very good, thanks.
 
Sig 365 380 is also double stack.

I also have tried to help some of the older folks, mainly ladies, start shooting. I have to say most of them find a revolver to be better then autos.
 

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