Would you buy land with a "conservation easement?"

[A.J.]

Wife and I found a beautiful piece of land but.... It has a "conservation easement". All else being equal.... What would you do?

Advantages:
+ Old growth forest, stream, pond, hills
+ Fishing, hunting, shooting OK
+ Land Conservancy of Michigan protects you from encroachments, etc
+ Boundaries are clearly marked
+ Small tax advantages

Disadvantages:
- No motors, logging, building, sub-dividing property
- Resale would be difficult
- You can only build on one small (3 acre) parcel.
- Land Conservancy oversight

 

[hittman]

It'd have to be cheap.

Ever know anybody who just loved loved loved a HOA?
This sounds like a government sponsored HOA that's possibly run by tree huggers.

Wow, I've turned into my cranky old Uncle Mike. Get off my lawn!

 

[A.J.]

It'd have to be cheap.

Ever know anybody who just loved loved loved a HOA?
This sounds like a government sponsored HOA that's possibly run by tree huggers.

Wow, I've turned into my cranky old Uncle Mike. Get off my lawn!

LOL! :lol:

 

[contender]

Due to explosive growth in my area spurred by developers & tourists wanting to change our area,, I have considered turning my land into a "conservation easement" type.
According to NC laws,, I can set many parameters in how it's done. I can set it to where it can't be developed, yet still managed, by me or my heirs etc. Such as cutting timber, hunting etc. There are tax breaks as it does lower the "tax value" and the "economic value." As such,, it does have some benefits.

And yes,, it does have an "oversight" so to speak,,, to where if a landowner violates the provisions,, they can be fined etc.

So,, what I'd suggest,, to get REAL information on it,, is to contact an attorney, who specializes in real estate laws, in the state where this is,, and get a copy of the conservation easement for them to study. They can tell you what you can & can't do,, and then use that information to make your decision.

 

[Kevin]

How much land are you talking about? You say you can build on 3 acres of the entire parcel?

It doesn’t sound like a traditional HOA with building codes. But the advantages you list does make it sound nice.

I asked about buying land a while back. One thing some people said that stuck with me was “what do you want from the land long term.” i.e. building a retirement house, or passing the land down to our daughter someday.

Land like what you describe sounds really, nice to me at least. But I would want to see the fine print....

 

[A.J.]

How much land are you talking about? You say you can build on 3 acres of the entire parcel?

It doesn’t sound like a traditional HOA with building codes. But the advantages you list does make it sound nice.

I asked about buying land a while back. One thing some people said that stuck with me was “what do you want from the land long term.” i.e. building a retirement house, or passing the land down to our daughter someday.

Land like what you describe sounds really, nice to me at least. But I would want to see the fine print....

About 70 acres. Short term goal: Vacation and recreation land. Long term goal: Build retirement home there on the 3 acres. Maintain a smaller home in town.

 

[blume357]

Sounds good to me... put the house right in the middle of the 70 acres and at least you have a half way decent 'easement' from anything gong on around you.

 

[Mobuck]

NOT A CHANCE IN he!!.
From a strictly agricultural stand point "conservation easement" has some gnarly connotations. Lots of this sort of thing springing up in north MO and it ends up often being a thorn in the side of anything that isn't prairie flowers and tree hugging.
You may find that "conservation" isn't as appealing when someone shows up to cut over a perfectly good stand of timber leaving the stumps 4' tall and the rest laying helter skelter. The result looks similar to the path of an F4 tornado, is impenetrable for years, and leaves a perfect set up for a terrible wildfire.

 

[Selena]

That's not just a no, it's a heck no! Conservation easements are usually federal and anything you do will require an expensive and long drawn out permitting process.

 

[phonejack]

No, probably multiple environmental impact assessments would be necessary. And they are expensive.

 

[RolandDeschain]

If this is what you are talking about....

https://www.michigan.gov/mdard/0,4610,7-125-1599_2558-146458--,00.html

And its meets your stated goals...

About 70 acres. Short term goal: Vacation and recreation land. Long term goal: Build retirement home there on the 3 acres. Maintain a smaller home in town.

And the price was right, yes - I would consider it. 3 acres is a pretty good building site. You could do quite a few improvements there and still realize a good increase in the overall value of the property over time. There will always be a market for a nice "cabin the woods", especially if its surrounded by 70 acres of old growth forest.

 

[Selena]

One other small question on three acres you are allowed. How much area does the state require for the leach bed of the septic system? It would seem to me that if the perk test showed more than 3 acres needed you would pretty well be out of luck with the idea of building a house there unless you could find a sewage removal service

 

[Dan in MI]

Looking at Roland's link for the DNR this popped.

"How long does the conservation easement last?"
"Conservation easements are perpetual, and apply to all present and future owners of the land."

 

[Kevin]

You may find that "conservation" isn't as appealing when someone shows up to cut over a perfectly good stand of timber leaving the stumps 4' tall and the rest laying helter skelter.

But how could this happen if he owns the land? No one will just show up and start cutting down the trees on his private property.

There will always be a market for a nice "cabin the woods", especially if its surrounded by 70 acres of old growth forest.

And there will never be a Wal Mart in your backyard!

 

[RolandDeschain]

Selena raises a good point, in fact if you have a realtor acting as your "buyers agent", they will recommend that your offer will be based on a successful perk test if they know you plan to build.

Which leads to another point, whenever buying land I always use a buyers agent. The seller has to pay their fee (actually the two realtors end up splitting the sellers commission), and it generally saves a lot of time and worry. In fact, last year I was looking at a patch I really liked, and was ready to make an offer, but my realtor told me it was overpriced based on his comps. He backed my offer way down, which the guy refused. I ended up buying a patch way better than that one, and right on his comps. Saved me over a $100k, we killed 3 deer on the new place last fall, and that original patch is still on the market.

 

[314Chevy]

We bought in NC property with easement run by the Army Corps of Engineers on almost 3 sides. Its there for a plant that grows only near us. I called to see if I could by a few acers and was told the short answer was no (also the long answer was hell no). We live in a subdivision and have what may be the most private lot. No one can build, hike, or own next to us. I can hunt on our property bow only. So far I love it.

 

[hittman]

"Conservation easements are perpetual, and apply to all present and future owners of the land."

Government intervention and oversight is forever. The gift that keeps on giving.

 

[A.J.]

Update: Spent much of the night studying. Made an offer this morning. Wife is so excited I coildn't even bring her with me. (Terrible poker face.)

I gave the seller 72 hours to decide. Now it's the waiting game.

Clarification:
Nobody can log the protected parts, not me, not the conservancy
The easement is forever, even if I sell
There's a small cabin on the property, electicty, water, septic
The Conservancy is a non-profit

Thank you for your feedback. It was all very helpful.

 

[BearBio]

Having been involved in numerous transaction both as a tile researcher/insurer (25+ years) and a Federal biologist (19+ years), be sure to get legal advice! Each one is different! My first as a biologist was to maintain cattle grazing to protect waterfowl habitat. The kids had gone to college and moved away with no interest in ranching; Grandpa loved to duck hunt. He maintained hunting rights for the family only! Another sustained rice growing to protect the Giant garter snake=its life cycle match farming practices exactly and keeping farming practices gained thousands of acres of habitat.


They CAN be a VERY powerful tool if it is drawn correctly!

 

[Selena]

Having been involved in numerous transaction both as a tile researcher/insurer (25+ years) and a Federal biologist (19+ years), be sure to get legal advice! Each one is different! My first as a biologist was to maintain cattle grazing to protect waterfowl habitat. The kids had gone to college and moved away with no interest in ranching; Grandpa loved to duck hunt. He maintained hunting rights for the family only! Another sustained rice growing to protect the Giant garter snake=its life cycle match farming practices exactly and keeping farming practices gained thousands of acres of habitat.


They CAN be a VERY powerful tool if it is drawn correctly!

My biggest fear of such an instrument would be that the government might decided at some point the terms of the easement will violate the rule against perpetuities and turn the use over to just the opposite of the original intent even while the rightful heirs are still alive.

 

[kmoore]

I am not a expert, but know some about land in this state. I would consider the purchase if it's really where you want to be etc. I would have gone over the details several times and paid someone to help that is involved in that type of land. Contracts are really important and all are held to them, until you mention government. The government seems to be able to change the contract details or your ability to do what you thought you could when there is a simple change of the POTUS.
Here we have people owning homes on federal land. That land is leased from the government. Miners having rights to land and water, that has brought up all kinds of problems with changes done in DC. Land next to or just near water is getting more and more government restrictions.
I become friends of a large land owner that explained some things he does to get tax breaks by doing or not doing things to parts of his land. It that case none really effects him to much because of the large amount of land he has and small areas of special use.

 

[powder smoke]

Something I would never ever consider, Good luck that!
I do not understand why you would buy 70 acres and only get 3 to do what you want with! You pay taxes on the 67 acres in easement?
Makes no sense! I bought a place in Maine got 68 acres lock stock and barrel. Works for me. ps

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I don't know any individuals in this part of the world who've bought such land. Some have been successful in turning parts of existing lands owned into "agricultural reserves" which saves a bit of property tax money each year, but it isn't so appealing when they find they can't just put in 10 acres of sod for a backyard putting green, but actually have to grow some kind of marketable agricultural commodity.

There are conservancies (non-profit organizations) which have been active locally, buying up larger chunks of land and applying whatever our area's rules require for a conservation easement. That's a great idea, but requires some serious money. You're not gonna find SoCal land for $1000 an acre! Or anywhere close to that if there's any possible "higher and better" use as the real estate world calls it one can foresee. In English, that term essentially means "What can we build on it?" which is antithetical to the way many of us define "conservation" when land is involved. And one doesn't even need to be a tree-hugger to understand another strip mall might not be the best use of a particular piece of dirt! For example, this story is about six years old, but BBC posted it again yesterday, which leads me to think the battle may still continue: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22301842 Even if it's a done deal now, after reading the story, and looking at the landowner's name, I wonder how he'd feel if the tables were turned, he'd lost family in Auschwitz, and someone wanted to sell a big piece of land adjacent to the camp for "development" purposes? A lot of this stuff depends on whose foot wears the shoe!

To get back on point, I see two problems straight off: first being, can the buyer wield enough financial power to keep those with deep pockets and greedy plans at bay? For example, a number of our "former" local conservancies or reserves were lost to developers who "grew" houses where cows or alfalfa used to grow. Money talks--always has, always will. And, second, borrowing from an acquaintance in the financial services industry years ago, when asked "How long will this program last?"--in reference to a tax deferred retirement plan--"Congress will be going to work tomorrow, which means they can change their mind and wipe the whole thing out almost as fast as you can ask, 'What just happened?'"

In support of that comment, I think we all know how well our government keeps its word when they see a financial advantage in changing things! I'd definitely want to talk with an attorney or two before buying such a parcel.

Rick C

 

[57springer]

Something I would never ever consider, Good luck that!
I do not understand why you would buy 70 acres and only get 3 to do what you want with! You pay taxes on the 67 acres in easement?
Makes no sense! I bought a place in Maine got 68 acres lock stock and barrel. Works for me. ps

Yea really :?

 

[sourdough44]

Hey, we own just over 800 acres as property with a camp and a few outbuildings. Near 300 acres are in a ‘conservation easement’, enrolled as we were buying the property. As long as one knows the restrictions, and it’s priced accordingly AND the taxes reflect that, not a big hairy deal.

Most of our easement is lowland swampland, so no real loss. We do have roads through it, and able to maintain them, culverts too. If a tree falls and I want to cut it for firewood, no biggie. There is a cedar swamp in one area, critters like it, no easy commercial logging.

Yes, the few higher areas are off limits for permanent buildings, semi-portable hunting blinds, no problem. The taxes should be ag land, or lower.

No one is watching over our shoulder, we are able to work around the restrictions just fine. Yes, one has to consider the negatives going in.

 

[powder smoke]

Thing is land is expensive and lets face it, time on this earth is short!
What is good for one is not good for another. When I bought my place
no easements or any restrictions. What's the point of owning is you do not have the say? I've done some selective cutting get my firewood cut trails ya I
enjoy everything about being a land owner, especially doing what I want! JMO. ps

 

[A.J.]

Update: Realtor called saying someone outbid us. Not sure if it's true or just realtor BS trying to get me to raise my offer (which was about 6% below list price). In any event, I'm outta ths game.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

 

[hittman]

....wasn't meant to be....

Something else will come along for you I'm sure.

 

[A.J.]

....wasn't meant to be....

Something else will come along for you I'm sure.

Yes Sir. Whenever one opportunity evaporates, an even better one is right around the corner. No biggie.

 

[Ethang]

Update: Realtor called saying someone outbid us. Not sure if it's true or just realtor BS trying to get me to raise my offer (which was about 6% below list price). In any event, I'm outta ths game.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

If you are out, would you mind telling me where this land was located?