Wish I knew the answer..........

Guns.com Vault
Gather App
Bob Wright

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
8,597
City & State/Province
Memphis, TN USA
Two people have died here in the last couple of days, both having been shot by law enforcement officers. In one case, a man was driving erratically on US Highway 412 near Alamo, Tennessee. Sheriff's deputies responded to a call, and upon arriving, the man tried to run down a deputy, who shot and killed the man.

Yesterday a woman threatened to "shoot up the neighborhood", according to one person. When police arrived, she pointed a handgun at one, who fired fatally injuring the woman. Turns out the pistol was a BB gun.

In both cases, family survivors claim the person involved was a "good person" but had "mental issues." Such has been the case in many shootings, "mental issues." And many otherwise innocent passers by have died, or been injured, because someone had mental issues, and often times were off their medications. That is, we, the general public, walk around facing death or injury depending on whether someone has decided to take their medication or not.

What is the answer? Wish I knew. Confine these folks to mental institutions? Assign them medical assistants to insure they take their prescribed medication?

I carry a gun. I sure don't want to be shot, or stabbed or clubbed, by some individual who just happens to find me a convenient target when the urge to strike out occurs, nor have my wife or sister be a victim.

Bob Wright
 
I have a very personal concern since I have w that is easily mistaken for aggressive behavoir due to illness.

If an ill person does not have a CARING family, then such tragadeies are going to happen.
During the progression of my experience, I did not have too much trouble with the seperation of them from weapons, but driving was a gut wrenching eposide.
 
I think mental patients that have been diagnosed as possibly dangerous to themselves or others need supervision before they hurt someone. Once a diagnosis like that has been given they should be required to get or given supervision like a parole offices or a welfare officer to keep tabs on them. A monthly check is the least we can do for these people to make sure they are on their meds and that they are living in a reasonable situation. Of course a program like that would cost the states or the government a lot of money and that does not seem to be a priority at this time. The mental hospitals were mostly closed because of lack of money and patient rights.
 
My take is that there is far more drugs out there than when I was a kid. When I went to high school I didn't know one person on drugs. Along with that society has changed for the worse. Cops have to deal with druggies where they didn't when I grew up. Along with that now days police have to almost figure it`s a given they are filmed with every move they make. Years ago many people were institutionalized where now it`s next to impossible to keep them over a couple day hold. Therefore their are many more nuts on the street along with many druggies. Along with all that there is far more police training today where years ago there was none or next to none. In SOME cases I think that can lean towards hyping up young officers more than years ago. Every night of the week we see of murders that happened that day in every part of the country where when I was a kid we seldom in comparison heard of one and if we did it was something that happened on the other coast. In short, the main biggest thing different is drugs where it used to be alcohol.
 
"My take is that there is far more drugs out there than when I was a kid. When I went to high school I didn't know one person on drugs. Along with that society has changed for the worse. Cops have to deal with druggies where they didn't when I grew up. Along with that now days police have to almost figure it`s a given they are filmed with every move they make. Years ago many people were institutionalized where now it`s next to impossible to keep them over a couple day hold. Therefore their are many more nuts on the street along with many druggies. Along with all that there is far more police training today where years ago there was none or next to none. In SOME cases I think that can lean towards hyping up young officers more than years ago. Every night of the week we see of murders that happened that day in every part of the country where when I was a kid we seldom in comparison heard of one and if we did it was something that happened on the other coast. In short, the main biggest thing different is drugs where it used to be alcohol."

^^^^^^THIS!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^

Mental hospitals used to be places where folks who had serious issues could & would be sent to get professional help. Yes,, I know many times it wasn't the true care they needed,,, but the other side is we also had folks who have committed many crimes who should be in such a place. Todays society wants to keep more people in the mainstream,,, yet,,,, fail to accept the responsibility for their family member,,, who needs help.
Medications help MANY folks,,, AS LONG AS THEY TAKE THEM AS PRESCRIBED. Therein lies the problem. Many of them go off their meds & nobody is monitoring them.

We went from one extreme,, (locking folks away,,,) to another by turning them loose w/o supervision.
 
Cynic that I am , I think protecting society at large, protecting innocents, should take precedence. Unfortunately somewhere along the line the idea came along that mental cases have "rights", that institutionalizing them was "cruel" and violated their "dignity". And as with so many things than answer is in a magic potion, a "medication" and they'll behave like rational, mature and considerate people.
And we have only scratched the surface of the effects drugs have on brain cells.
I like one I saw in the MAD parody "Batboy and Rubin".
"OK, here goes Secret Vial No. 2! It fires a gas which makes crooks think they're cops and they put themselves in jail!"
 
We live in a fallen world. Right is wrong, wrong is right. Up is down, down is up. Etc, etc, etc. Lines are being drawn that seperate and divide. More and more deviant behavior will come to the forefront as we go along. It will require that we all look out for ourselves and some hard, sad choices will have to be made to deal with it. It's not just "bad" guys you gotta watch out for these days. You gotta protect yourself from a lot of sick people, unfortunately.
 
Everyone is always a "good person" once they die. Read the obituaries, everyone's made to be some world renowned angelic loving person that cared for everyone and gave and gave of themselves.
These "mental issue" folks... ok, great, they were unstable so where are the ones that cry about how wonderful and loving they were after the fact? Sorry, not buying it.
 
Bob Wright said:
Two people have died here in the last couple of days, both having been shot by law enforcement officers. In one case, a man was driving erratically on US Highway 412 near Alamo, Tennessee. Sheriff's deputies responded to a call, and upon arriving, the man tried to run down a deputy, who shot and killed the man.

Yesterday a woman threatened to "shoot up the neighborhood", according to one person. When police arrived, she pointed a handgun at one, who fired fatally injuring the woman. Turns out the pistol was a BB gun.

In both cases, family survivors claim the person involved was a "good person" but had "mental issues." Such has been the case in many shootings, "mental issues." And many otherwise innocent passers by have died, or been injured, because someone had mental issues, and often times were off their medications. That is, we, the general public, walk around facing death or injury depending on whether someone has decided to take their medication or not.

What is the answer? Wish I knew. Confine these folks to mental institutions? Assign them medical assistants to insure they take their prescribed medication?

I carry a gun. I sure don't want to be shot, or stabbed or clubbed, by some individual who just happens to find me a convenient target when the urge to strike out occurs, nor have my wife or sister be a victim.

Bob Wright
Click to expand...

Bob, if we confined all the mentally disturbed people to a mental institution waaaaay more mental institutions would have to be built.
 
Quote"
Bob, if we confined all the mentally disturbed people to a mental institution waaaaay more mental institutions would have to be built."
And like crime and prisons,nobody would want one in their neighborhood.
 
Years ago people with mental issues were sent to some type of institution, at least temporarily. This can still be done but usually only results in a 72-hour hold. I used to work at a hospital and we would have "5150s" come into the emergency room all the time. In fact, there were times that out of 21 ER rooms we had 8 or 10 of them occupied by 5150s. Due to lack of facilities to send them to we would sometimes have them for their entire 72-hour hold. In fact, on occasion, for the worst ones we would have county mental health (which had to interview them and approve the hold) come in and re-certify them 5150 so we could hold them for another 72-hours if they hadn't found a mental facility to send them to. Many of these were "frequent flyers" which we would see every few weeks or even more ofter. Many of them were physically violent and had to be restrained during their stay. It really cut into the hospital's ability to care for physically sick emergency cases as they would occupy an ER room for their entire stay, making it unavailable for physically sick patients, which increased wait time for these patients substantially. If you live near a hospital with an ER you are de facto living near a local mental hospital. I never saw the sense of confining a mental patient in a 6x8 foot ER treatment room with 4 blank walls for 72-hours. They're already nuts and staring at 4 blank walls for 72-hours usually didn't help that condition and usually resulted in violent outbreaks.
 
The real difference from the recent past is that we did not have any medications or other treatments that really worked on the mentally ill, so even a moderately ill person was forcibly institutionalized. Now that we have meds which can help in some cases, there is more of a societal view toward treatment rather than institutionalization. This, combined with an increased sensitivity to individual as opposed to public values, has led to the current situation. I know that in some cities like New York there have been clearly mentally ill people that are known to be dangerous, but who are allowed to roam the streets with their potential for harming others unimpeded and backed by the courts. This is because they are hospitalized when they act out violently, are put on psycho active drugs and calm down. Then the hospitals are obligated to release the now non violent person back to society, where he or she promptly stops taking the very medications that allowed them to be released, they act out, and the cycle repeats. It was much easier 60 or 80 years ago when no one even tried to treat these people but for the sake of everyone they were just locked away in huge state mental facilities.

And as to public versus private rights, we used to have a whole host of public health laws that would, among other things, forcibly hospitalize those with TB or certain other communicable diseases. Homes could be forcibly quarantined to contain an outbreak of an illness, with police enforcing the rule that no one enter or leave the building. Can you imagine trying to do that today? The ACLU would have a motion before a judge before the police could set up a quarantine.

When I was a child there was an incident where two merchant marine sailors entered NYC and when they became ill it was found that they had smallpox. This prompted a city wide immunization plan where EVERY person in the city had to receive smallpox vaccination. Locations were set up to accomplish this at virtually every school, police station and fire station and everyone seemed to accept that as an individual we had no choice but to get the vaccination for the public good. I was about 4 years old and remember standing in line in the hot sun that day waiting for our turn to be given the injections. Today's citizens would no more accept that responsibility than they accept the need to keep potential terrorists out of our country.
 
Mega Twin said:
Quote"
Bob, if we confined all the mentally disturbed people to a mental institution waaaaay more mental institutions would have to be built."
And like crime and prisons,nobody would want one in their neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Yup. It's called "NIMBY". (Not In My Back Yard.)

You can thank good ol' Ronnie for letting the nuts out. He was part of the crowd that de-funded the mental institutions.

If we put everybody in the nut house that needed it, 80% of the population would be in straight jackets. According to Idaho Government stats, 42% of the women in this state are on some sort of "Mental Stability" drug for anxiety, bi-polar disorder and some other kind of mental issue. Perhaps that's why there are so many women that are single in this state.. Remember guy's, you don't date crazy..

On the other hand, only 5% of the male population is on some sort of mental stability drug.. That's in line with the national average by the way for males.. But the highest in the nation for females. I've been telling people for years that woman in Idaho are frigging nuts, and they are. The state has the numbers to prove it.

Hence why many men here will not date Idaho women. Hence, we men stay single.
 
The reason for the closing of many state hospitals (as mental facilities were called) was more than a simple attempt to save money, and wasn't due to any one politician. It involved doctors as much as politicians as well as public opinion which was solidified by the movie, "One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest". Much like the overreaction over Rachel Carlson's film about DDT which helped kill millions in the tropics.
Here's a good explanation of why we have so many people living under bridges. This article is from the New York Times but does seem pretty unbiased.
http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html
 
redhawker said:
GP100 said:
Mega Twin said:
Quote"
According to Idaho Government stats, 42% of the women in this state are on some sort of "Mental Stability" drug...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The scary thing is the 58% that aren't on mental stability drugs....(sorry ladies, couldn't resist that one... :lol: )
Click to expand...

The Males are probably a HIGH percentage of drunks (there, now we are even !!)
 
Bob Wright said:
Two people have died here in the last couple of days, both having been shot by law enforcement officers. In one case, a man was driving erratically on US Highway 412 near Alamo, Tennessee. Sheriff's deputies responded to a call, and upon arriving, the man tried to run down a deputy, who shot and killed the man.

Yesterday a woman threatened to "shoot up the neighborhood", according to one person. When police arrived, she pointed a handgun at one, who fired fatally injuring the woman. Turns out the pistol was a BB gun.

In both cases, family survivors claim the person involved was a "good person" but had "mental issues." Such has been the case in many shootings, "mental issues." And many otherwise innocent passers by have died, or been injured, because someone had mental issues, and often times were off their medications. That is, we, the general public, walk around facing death or injury depending on whether someone has decided to take their medication or not.

What is the answer? Wish I knew. Confine these folks to mental institutions? Assign them medical assistants to insure they take their prescribed medication?

I carry a gun. I sure don't want to be shot, or stabbed or clubbed, by some individual who just happens to find me a convenient target when the urge to strike out occurs, nor have my wife or sister be a victim.

Bob Wright
Click to expand...

I have a close friend I haven't seen in 5 years. Great kid. His mother was a schizophrenic and died young from schizophrenia related issues. One night I got a call from his dad asking me to come over and pray with them. I get there and my friend is pacing the house, looking out the windows. There are people after him, He's being followed, etc. We talked for a while and I was able to convice him to go to a hospital for treatment. While there his parents and I found out the extent of his illness. He had dealt with it quietly for years. In fact as long as he could remember. He had attempted suicide once. He was a troubled soul and that night the dam let loose. He got on meds, was up and down for a while. Eventually he turned to marijuana as he felt that treated his issues better. He tried to drive to California from Pennsylvania so he could get a medical marijuana card. He made it as far as Denver before he ran out of luck. I had some friends there that helped out for a while and he eventually made his way back. He showed up unannounced Thanksgiving day at his grandparents house and acted like everything was fine after being gone for 9 months. That was the last time any of us saw him. I know he was living somewhere about 20 minutes away from me. His dad used to drive around there hoping to see him. It's been about 5 years now since we've had contact with him. Unfortunately that's mental illness. Treatment is underfunded and they end up homeless, destitute and dangerous at times.
I don't think there is a right or wrong, good or bad answer to it. I wish there was though. I still think of my friend occasionally. He was about 20 when that happened, which is a normal age for mental issues to come to light.

The issue with medications is they do work, but a person needs the mental capacity to understand they need to take them.
 
ChiefMuzz said:
Bob Wright said:
Two people have died here in the last couple of days, both having been shot by law enforcement officers. In one case, a man was driving erratically on US Highway 412 near Alamo, Tennessee. Sheriff's deputies responded to a call, and upon arriving, the man tried to run down a deputy, who shot and killed the man.

Yesterday a woman threatened to "shoot up the neighborhood", according to one person. When police arrived, she pointed a handgun at one, who fired fatally injuring the woman. Turns out the pistol was a BB gun.

In both cases, family survivors claim the person involved was a "good person" but had "mental issues." Such has been the case in many shootings, "mental issues." And many otherwise innocent passers by have died, or been injured, because someone had mental issues, and often times were off their medications. That is, we, the general public, walk around facing death or injury depending on whether someone has decided to take their medication or not.

What is the answer? Wish I knew. Confine these folks to mental institutions? Assign them medical assistants to insure they take their prescribed medication?

I carry a gun. I sure don't want to be shot, or stabbed or clubbed, by some individual who just happens to find me a convenient target when the urge to strike out occurs, nor have my wife or sister be a victim.

Bob Wright
Click to expand...

I have a close friend I haven't seen in 5 years. Great kid. His mother was a schizophrenic and died young from schizophrenia related issues. One night I got a call from his dad asking me to come over and pray with them. I get there and my friend is pacing the house, looking out the windows. There are people after him, He's being followed, etc. We talked for a while and I was able to convice him to go to a hospital for treatment. While there his parents and I found out the extent of his illness. He had dealt with it quietly for years. In fact as long as he could remember. He had attempted suicide once. He was a troubled soul and that night the dam let loose. He got on meds, was up and down for a while. Eventually he turned to marijuana as he felt that treated his issues better. He tried to drive to California from Pennsylvania so he could get a medical marijuana card. He made it as far as Denver before he ran out of luck. I had some friends there that helped out for a while and he eventually made his way back. He showed up unannounced Thanksgiving day at his grandparents house and acted like everything was fine after being gone for 9 months. That was the last time any of us saw him. I know he was living somewhere about 20 minutes away from me. His dad used to drive around there hoping to see him. It's been about 5 years now since we've had contact with him. Unfortunately that's mental illness. Treatment is underfunded and they end up homeless, destitute and dangerous at times.
I don't think there is a right or wrong, good or bad answer to it. I wish there was though. I still think of my friend occasionally. He was about 20 when that happened, which is a normal age for mental issues to come to light.

The issue with medications is they do work, but a person needs the mental capacity to understand they need to take them.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your friend Chief; I pray that God is watching over him and that someday he comes home.
 
blume357 said:
Sounds like the OP's two folks were committing suicide by cop...
Click to expand...

the symptoms of mental disorder can have a person not capable to understand that they will be killed. the authoritive address of the police can cause a pariold "fight" response.

Now, the Police response may be justifiable, the fact that family (or some Big Brother) allowed the mentally ill into a situation would be partially to blame for thier death. sort of like how a parent could be charged with negligence for a child's accidental death,
 
I guess I'm just a hard (bleep), but the majority of these people have
families that don't care, so why should I? It's almost a daily whine about
deaths from prescription opioids, or some "really perfect" person that is
not getting the care they need (with the exception of military returning
from the great sand box), I don't care. Many, and some say most, of
these people are there from something that THEY did/are-doing. Why
then is it my fault or your fault, if they end up dead?

Our society has become one of full-time, and some would say professional
victims. Really? IMO, there have always been somewhere near this
number of people in these circumstances. The primary difference is the
number of hand-wringing whiners that want someone else to take care
of these people. The only ones that I feel sorry for are the Law Enforcement
people that are stuck with dealing with the whiners AND the people that
have become expectant on society for their care.

Those who are regularly brought to the hospital for opioid over-dose, after
the second or third time, let them stay on the street and die. They want to,
so let them.

Those who have so little where-with-all to understand that when they hold
or threaten LE with . . . any . . . type of gun, should be allowed to complete
their Darwin wishes. YES, I feel very sorry for the LE officer that ends up
being the true victim there, but it is that, or letting the mope do-in an
innocent passer-by.

Let the professional victims receive the short end of the stick, not society.
 
I couldn't disagree with one word, my point I wanted to make, is without family to care for (protect) such events are going to happen and I agree, I feel for the LEO that has to be put into the dreaded psotion.

I still fear while I am trying to protect, I could encounter an overly aggresive LEO that won't allow me to protect my family member.

I believe my concerns proably are not as well grasp here as they are when posting to a caregivers site
 
here in the upstate of S.C. some time last year the police killed a retarded man... the big issue the family is trying to make is that the police should have known he was retarded and how to deal with it.... but when you are in danger from a large man coming at you that seems crazy and possibly on drugs... you often have a split second to decide......
 
Pat-inCO said:
I guess I'm just a hard (bleep), but the majority of these people have
families that don't care, so why should I? It's almost a daily whine about
deaths from prescription opioids, or some "really perfect" person that is
not getting the care they need (with the exception of military returning
from the great sand box), I don't care. Many, and some say most, of
these people are there from something that THEY did/are-doing. Why
then is it my fault or your fault, if they end up dead?
Click to expand...

Ever heard the one called, "He ain't heavy, he's my brother.."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

gunman42782
I knew better (buying a gun at Wal-Mart)
2 3 4
Replies
110
Views
3K
DimiPana
D
gnappi
I wish I could get to DC for my passport renewal
Replies
0
Views
96
gnappi
gnappi
4
Butt fillers toxic? Who knew.
2
Replies
53
Views
1K
xTopGun
xTopGun
Fox Mike
Never knew this
Replies
8
Views
360
Joe Chartreuse
Joe Chartreuse
reuben_j_cogburn
I got the wrong gun.... (pics)
Replies
27
Views
1K
reuben_j_cogburn
reuben_j_cogburn

Latest posts

Back
Top