Ratster
Bearcat
Does anyone know what powder they use in those loads? I found a defective round today and I took it apart. It's a 9mm 115 gr FMJ and I was just curious. Looks like Winchester 231 powder. 5.7 grain load. Thanks.
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Winchester White Box Question...
- Thread starter Ratster
- Start date
buck460XVR
Bearcat
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 56
Most major ammo manufacturers use proprietary powders/blends which are unavailable to handloaders.
OP
Ratster
Bearcat
Thanks for the response. Figured that might be the case.
44shootist
Single-Sixer
Very well could be Win. 231 or maybe Win. 296 they both look the same to me, if the case was about 1/2 full or less it would be Win 231, if it is almost full it would be Win. 296.
My guess would be Win. 231 cause it uses less powder, which makes them more profit, Winchester does use Winchester powder in their rounds.
Win. 296 would make a more accurate load but would use twice as much powder and less profit.
Email Winchester and ask them, I once Emailed them and asked about 5.56 rounds and what they used, they responed Win. 231 and told me how many grains they used as well don't remember off hand how many they said, but they will tell you.
My guess would be Win. 231 cause it uses less powder, which makes them more profit, Winchester does use Winchester powder in their rounds.
Win. 296 would make a more accurate load but would use twice as much powder and less profit.
Email Winchester and ask them, I once Emailed them and asked about 5.56 rounds and what they used, they responed Win. 231 and told me how many grains they used as well don't remember off hand how many they said, but they will tell you.
Cheesewhiz
Hunter
It may be that Winchester uses 231 or not, if it's 231, it wouldnt be 5.7gr of it in a 9mm, way too much.
WWB over the years seems to be dirty shooting sometimes, not fully obturating at times.
My guess is they may vary powders do to price and availability. Winchester powders are made by Hogdon, so they sure would have a ton to choose from.
WWB over the years seems to be dirty shooting sometimes, not fully obturating at times.
My guess is they may vary powders do to price and availability. Winchester powders are made by Hogdon, so they sure would have a ton to choose from.
No way Winchester uses 231 in 5.56 rounds. Its a fast burning pistol powder.
231 is also probably not what is used in their WWB ammo (especially at 5.7 grains).
Don't try guessing and just work up your own loads. They will be more accurate than the WWB economy loading anyway.
231 is also probably not what is used in their WWB ammo (especially at 5.7 grains).
Don't try guessing and just work up your own loads. They will be more accurate than the WWB economy loading anyway.
mattsbox99
Hunter
Hodgdon doesn't make Winchester powders, they just package them. Hodgdon only makes black powder substitutes. St. Marks/General Dynamics in Florida makes Winchester powders along with many of the Hodgdon copies.
Save for Alliant's 'Dot' powders, you can't tell what particular formula a gunpowder is by looking at it.
Winchester probably does load some variant of their powder in that ammunition, but as mentioned, its not canister grade powder, its mixed in very large batches (how we would buy a lot number) and each batch is tested for consistency.
Save for Alliant's 'Dot' powders, you can't tell what particular formula a gunpowder is by looking at it.
Winchester probably does load some variant of their powder in that ammunition, but as mentioned, its not canister grade powder, its mixed in very large batches (how we would buy a lot number) and each batch is tested for consistency.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
mattsbox99 said:
Hi,
Not sure how Winchester does it now that Hodgdon's has taken over their distribution, but their books USED to say "Duplicates the ballistics of" such and such a factory load.
Which was about as close to telling anyone what was in their ammo as I've seen...
I believe it's safe to say that ALL factory ammo is loaded w/ "So many grains of Unobtanium powder" as they all "blend" huge quantities to obtain the desired results. And even the "Dot" powders can be deceiving: a favorite clay target shell for decades among trapshooters has been the Federal paper shell. If you cut one open, at least some years back, it had what appeared to be "Red Dot" but at about 2-2.5 gr heavier than the book load. When we talked to our Federal rep about this, he said "Yeah, it STARTS as Red Dot. But don't dare load what WE do w/ the Red Dot you can buy off the shelf--you'll hurt something, or someone!"
Rick C
paleocaver
Bearcat
I picked up a box to break in a LC9 a few weeks ago and noticed that there were a couple of different headstamps in the box of 100. One was the standard - WIN 9mm Luger, the other is WCC 11 and a stamped cross within a circle. Doesn't ID it as a 9mm. Never seen mixed headstamps in a box of new ammo before. Heck, even cheap gunshow reloads I used to buy had matching headstamps.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
paleocaver said:
Hi,
Someone will correct me if I got this wrong, but my understanding is that headstamp is used on their military 9mm brass.
A lot of "promo" ammo such as WWB is pretty much put together w/ the floor sweepings, so mixed headstamps aren't TOO surprising. As things finish winding down in Iraq, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the WCC headstamps for a while, too. That "11" is the year of mfr, so they probably have a little excess inventory?
Rick C
