Why the Dislike for Polymer Frames

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Charon

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We must also remember that the traditional materials - steel, wood, brass, bronze, aluminum (and its alloys) aren't perfect, either. Wood was used for stocks from the first, because it was available, cheap, and easy to work with common tools such as saws, chisels, and scrapers (sandpaper is relatively new). Early guns were bronze, because it was easy to cast. Bronze had a bad habit of exploding, so it was replaced by cast iron and later, steel. But steel has a habit of rusting, especially in early times before smokeless powders and non-corrosive primers. That led to stainless steel, which can also rust or corrode although not as easily. Stainless led to gripes from folks who think the traditional blued steel is better (note that bluing is also a form of rust). The Confederacy used brass for revolver frames, not because it was better but because it was "good enough" to replace scarce steel. Later aluminum and its alloys were (and still are) used both for easier machining and lighter weight. Aluminum led to complaints about "cheapening" guns, quite apart from complaints because it doesn't accept bluing. Enter plastic, by whatever name. It usually replaces aluminum or steel in handgun frames. It can be molded much more closely to final form than metal, appears to be adequately strong, and is usually lighter. In quantity it also reduces cost to makers, although it would be essentially impossible for an individual to reproduce (unlike wood). We have heard comments about the lack of "100-year-old plastic guns," but that's because plastic has not yet been in use for that long. I do not expect to be alive fifty years from now, but I bet my Nylon 66 will still be working just fine.
 
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Blackhawk47 said:
Tenbore said:
I'm not paying hundreds of dollars for a few dollars worth of injection molded plastic. The prices should have dropped by half when everything started going plastic.


I think it did.

On some of them...

On average you see metal gun go for $500 to $800 & I do mean average, there are exceptions plastic gun go for $250 to 450.

The exceptions being hi dollar guns... $1200 to 2K H&Ks, Yes those are plastic too.

Its really hard to judge what a gun is worth sometimes. Whats your life worth? Then that will protect it!
 

Snake45

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Charon said:
We must also remember that the traditional materials - steel, wood, brass, bronze, aluminum (and its alloys) aren't perfect, either. Wood was used for stocks from the first, because it was available, cheap, and easy to work with common tools such as saws, chisels, and scrapers (sandpaper is relatively new). Early guns were bronze, because it was easy to cast. Bronze had a bad habit of exploding, so it was replaced by cast iron and later, steel. But steel has a habit of rusting, especially in early times before smokeless powders and non-corrosive primers. That led to stainless steel, which can also rust or corrode although not as easily. Stainless led to gripes from folks who think the traditional blued steel is better (note that bluing is also a form of rust). The Confederacy used brass for revolver frames, not because it was better but because it was "good enough" to replace scarce steel. Later aluminum and its alloys were (and still are) used both for easier machining and lighter weight. Aluminum led to complaints about "cheapening" guns, quite apart from complaints because it doesn't accept bluing. Enter plastic, by whatever name. It usually replaces aluminum or steel in handgun frames. It can be molded much more closely to final form than metal, appears to be adequately strong, and is usually lighter. In quantity it also reduces cost to makers, although it would be essentially impossible for an individual to reproduce (unlike wood). We have heard comments about the lack of "100-year-old plastic guns," but that's because plastic has not yet been in use for that long. I do not expect to be alive fifty years from now, but I bet my Nylon 66 will still be working just fine.
Good post. As I said in my first post in this thread, I don't object to plastic per se, I just don't like the looks/feel/handling of most of the guns that have been made of plastic so far. Being a longtime Colt (LW) Commander fan, I've actually been looking forward to a plastic-framed 1911. Yeah, I know, there have been a couple, but they don't really have the classic 1911 looks, what with their toylike trigger guards and so forth.

I've also been looking forward to a plastic-framed AR, and even considered making my own plastic lower reciever for one a few years ago. (I think there have been some .22 ARs with plastic receivers.)

One more consideration: If it were possible to build a handgun almost entirely from plastic (including barrel, cylinder, slide, etc.), would you really want one? I don't think I would, I think such a thing would be just WAY too light. Many of the smaller plastic handguns of today are already too light for my liking (some metal ones, too). I want to feel at least a little heft in a gun--somewhere in the neighborhood of 24 ounces at least. But that's just me, and I obviously don't speak for everyone on that point.
 
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Why anyone would pay over $450.00 for a PLASTIC handgun is beyond me!

OKAY OKAY I admit, I got a Springfield XD 40 (4 inch) for $500.00 (essentials pkg) NEW.

That said, Its really well built and I didn't mind paying the extra $50.00 more than I would allow myself to.

I did get 3 extra magazines and a 2x magazine holder FREE from Springfield.

I still have a Glock 19 4th Gen in the back of my safe that is one of the most unreliable guns I've owned. LOL almost forgot it was back there.

The 3 glocks I've had BEFORE this were PERFECT reliable, HOWEVER, they would NOT fit my hand. (If you unfamiliar with the 4th gen problems, google is your friend)

Well. Needless to say, Not a big fan of the glock/plastic guns. The XD40 is my main carry and my metal guns have their purposes...

(Wanted to add: The Glock 19 4th gen. was acquired in a trade and i had no pre-existing knowege of any problem)
 

DDDWho

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While watching "The Outlaw Josey Wales" last night on the History Channel I was curious about the huge guns he was packing. It turns out they are Colt Walkers.

Researching the Colt Walker I found that an original one sold at auction recently for $920,000.00 (including 17% commission).

There will never be a plastic gun selling for nearly $1 million. At least one that was not involved in a infamous assassination which the Walker was not.
 

exavid

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Yeah I'll bet the Colt's contemporaries said the same thing about the Walker. Who knows what the first Glock will go for in seventy or eighty years?
 

NixieTube

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Great thread everyone. I have nothing to add except that I don't dislike them, obviously, but I also have a real affection for some nice stainless and I want another metal framed pistol (a revolver!)

Ah heck, I'll add a couple things anyway:

Durability issues are present with every kind of material. Ed Brown recommends not using his Kobra Carry Lightweight aluminum-framed 1911s as guns that are going to have lots of rounds put through them. Yes, even at what they cost, he reco's you buy the steel versions if you're going to run them hard, and I don't doubt that he's looking out for his customers in saying that. Some people (heh) don't like Ed Brown's personality from time to time but I'm sure he knows what he's talking about when it comes to the durability of different kinds of metal composing the frames of 1911 pistols. He's made enough of them to know.

My S&W 4040PD Airlight Scandium is holding up very well, and that's the scandium/aluminum frame single-stack .40. But I've only put about 400 rounds through it in 2 years and keep it loaded with the expensive stuff because it's the carry gun, not the range/house gun. If 8 rounds through that gun doesn't stop the BG in a close-in defensive encounter, I missed and I'm deader than Latin anyway, I figure.

4040PD_PIC1_TINY.jpg


Glock proved you can make a plastic frame last, and I dearly love the way my SR9's grip was molded because of the way it fits my hand. The kind of contouring that grip has (look at it closely sometime) if it was made of metal, would be a really complex machining job. So if it helped Ruger get that gun into my hand at a great price and weight, that's just freakin' super. One DISLIKE I have with plastic frames is that the grip panels aren't replaceable. I haven't seen any polymer (plastic) guns that have removable grip panels and boy, that would be a nice thing to have.

On an SR9, for instance, it would be great to be able to remove the grip panel and have Crimson Trace make a replacement panel with a laser but it cannot happen. Once it's molded, it's molded for the ages and all time forthcoming and it wasn't designed to be altered. All you can do is put something over it. Crimson's Glock lasers are additions to the gripframe.

So.....this is why you buy more guns! :) To have something of what you want of each, for pete's sake. There just isn't a single, all-encompassing silver bullet answer to this question.
 

Cholo

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DDDWho said:
Prolly about 1% of what a Walker Colt will bring at that time.

With the way our country's going, ANY hand gun will be worth more than it's weight in gold 70-80 years from now, that is if the USA isn't speaking Chinese by then :wink:
 

DDDWho

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Cholo said:
DDDWho said:
Prolly about 1% of what a Walker Colt will bring at that time.

With the way our country's going, ANY hand gun will be worth more than it's weight in gold 70-80 years from now, that is if the USA isn't speaking Chinese by then :wink:

There are forces at work that will make it impossible to find a gun in this country in 70-80 years or just a few years for that matter.
 

ProfessorWes

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The only polymer framed gun I have is a Ruger .22-45 target pistol. Nice gun...but I wonder if it will last as long as my all-steel flattopped Ruger Blackhawks, or even the aluminum-alloy framed Smith Airweight or Beretta 9mm I also have.

This might sound strange, but when it comes to guns to me polymer feels somewhat unsubstantial as compared to metal. Especially if it's something I might have to trust my life to.

Polymer is definitely easy-carrying - I'm really tempted by Ruger's new LC9 pistol and the LCR revolver in .38; the latter as a complement to my Airweight - but there's nothing like metal to provide just a little extra comfort when you really need it.

Like most else when it comes to guns, it's purely subjective.
 

exavid

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So far the earliest Glocks have been around for 30 years. Not all that long compared to the 1911 but then hardly anyone is actually shooting a 100 year old 1911 either. It's possible that the Poly framed guns won't last as long but it's really too early to know. From a functional, maintenance, and cost standpoint the poly guns are doing quite well so far. As I've said before I like fabric covered aircraft and wooden boats best but no longer want to own one. Modern composite aircraft and boats have better performance and less maintenance. Only time will tell.
 

freedomcosts

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Someone mentioned a grip-laser for the SR9, I really, really want the rear-sight laser. I have about $300 tied up in holsters for my 9c, and with the rear-sight laser there's no need to toss em.
 

Snake45

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Iron Mike Golf said:
Are there any military forces using a poly-framed pistol? I don't know.
I believe the mighty Austrian Army issues the Glock. (No, I can't tell you the last time they won a war.) :?
 

Leucoandro

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Snake45 said:
I've also been looking forward to a plastic-framed AR, and even considered making my own plastic lower reciever for one a few years ago. (I think there have been some .22 ARs with plastic receivers.)

Bushmaster makes what they call a carbon 15. That might be something that would Interest you.

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15M4PRE.asp


Charlie
 

Conn AK

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bennettfam said:
Iron Mike Golf said:
Are there any military forces using a poly-framed pistol? I don't know.

I think the US supplied either Iraq or Afghan personnel with polymer Smiths and Rugers.
Yes, they were supplied S&W Sigma 9VE pistols. This way... no one would be hurt.
 
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