Why couldn't a hundred plus gays repel one terrorist?

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This happened in Orlando. Tim Larkin explains in an imbedded video.
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/06/28/couldnt-hundreds-gays-defeat-one-puny-islamic-terrorist-orlando/
This is about your survival! This is a mindset. It can be changed.
gramps
 
gramps said:
This happened in Orlando. Tim Larkin explains in an imbedded video.
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/06/28/couldnt-hundreds-gays-defeat-one-puny-islamic-terrorist-orlando/
This is about your survival! This is a mindset. It can be changed.
gramps

Thanks gramps. :) Hadn't read that.
 
Really a good video, well worth the 17 minutes it took to watch it. I have long felt that it does not take superior physical skills to prevail, but the willingness to use violence to achieve desired results. I think about the actor Joe Pesci's character in "Goodfellas". He is certainly not the biggest or seemingly strongest, but his willingness to use violence against others at the slightest provocation makes him feared by even the other thugs. He is the same physical person he is in "Lethal Weapon" where he is a mild mannered accountant, if I recall correctly, but in "Goodfellas" he is pretty terrifying. As a boy I was always the smallest, lightest of my group of friends. My Dad, who had been a professional middle weight boxer as a young man, tried to prepare me for the inevitable street fights so common among boys in Brooklyn where I grew up back in those days. He told me to always avoid a fight if at all possible, but once it became apparent that I was going to have to fight I should strike first and as hard as I could to the opponents throat, or face, or similar action rather than the typical schoolyard fight tactic of shoving and possibly punching as the fight escalated. I wish I could say I always used this strategy, but I can say that when used it always worked. When I "played by the rules" I ended up taking a beating. When out of fear and anxiety I punched my opponent square in the face before he knew what was happening, the fight ended and I had prevailed.

Now, as a senior citizen with diminished physical capabilities, I hope I can still generate the mindset needed to win against a criminal attack. I carry a firearm for self defense. I think that waiting until it is crystal clear that I must use that firearm is likely a presciption for disaster. I do believe that the skill is making that split second determination that this is going badly and then acting before my opponent can do so is the right tactic to win the encounter, with or without a gun. Later, I can be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6.
 
I agree,, it's a mindset,,, for survival. It is slowly being removed from our minds by the pacifist left wing media.
Does this ring any bells?
"Retreat from your home if a thug enters. Do not fight them."
"If you resist rape, it'll only be worse on you."
"Find a closet or someplace to hide & call the police."
"Just give the mugger your money & he'll go away."
 
Very interesting article. Those that know me know that I don't have a very intimidating stature. 5'9" and 140 doesn't make too many back up. I learned early in life that until I defended myself I was gonna be 'picked on'. It is a 'mind set' that makes people freeze, flee, or fight. I learned early on, when something 'dangerous' occurred, to flee if you can but fight if you must.
 
I really wonder about many of my fellow gun supporters, and if they have the mindset necessary for their own survival. While there is certainly cause for concern about what would happen after a defensive shooting, sometimes on this and other gun forums I sense almost paranoia from some about this subject. Just as Zimmerman waited until he was on the ground having his head slammed into the concrete several times before he drew his firearm and killed Trayvon Martin, and was fortunate that he was able to do so at that late stage of the encounter, I think many here might wait so long before acting that they would end up dead on the ground with their gun still holstered and ready to fire. Not that one should act prematurely at every threat, but I don't think it bodes well for survival if fear of legal consequences paralyzes a law abiding citizen into not shooting until the chance to do so is long past.

On another forum, there is endless discussion about the intricasies of the law in that state regarding where it is legal and where illegal to carry. That is all well and good since we, as law abiding citizens, actually want to obey the law. But when some people admit to being half scared out of their minds about being unarmed in certain locales, and then saying despite their fears they would continue to go there unarmed because otherwise they just might be considered in violation of the law, that is another example of paralysis through fear that could cost someone their life, despite being armed and to some degree, trained in the use of that firearm.

Going back to the Orlando shooting, I wonder if possibly there was an armed citizen in that nightclub, but one who was so afraid of being arrested for carrying in a banned location that he fled or froze rather than draw his gun and oppose the deranged shooter. We will never know if this was the case, but we need to each prepare ourselves mentally because that situation could arise for any of us at any time, including when we least expect to have to defend our lives.
 
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Zimmerman waited until he was on the ground having his head slammed into the concrete several times before he drew his firearm and killed Trayvon Martin, and was fortunate that he was able to do so at that late stage of the encounter

I'm convinced that if Zimmerman had fired his weapon any sooner, he would be in jail right now. The cuts and bruises on the back of his head played a big part in the jury believing his account of what happened. I'm not saying that you should hesitate to pull your weapon but, it better be a last resort situation.
 
Yeah. It's not about their "lifestyle" or "personal choices". It's about their overall mindset that unfortunately is prevalent in our society as a whole.

One simply has to accept that evil exists and you may run into it when you least expect it . . . and that you must deal with it when it occurs. Unfortunate, yeah, but true.
 
"One simply has to accept that evil exists and you may run into it when you least expect it . . . and that you must deal with it when it occurs."

THIS!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^

Unfortunately way too many people in this country fail to grasp that fact. They think that everyone will be "good & kind" if we remove all items that can cause harm. I have a friend, almost like a sister, as her family & mine grew up together, who once said to me; "If we removed all the guns, everybody would live in peace & nobody would get hurt." Well, considering her oldest brother was a hunter, her big sister became a SBI agent, (now retired,) the next older brother was US Customs & later ICE until retirement, made them ALL roll their eyes when she said that. She was in her late 20's when she made that comment. She was also a stripper during that era. She is NOW a physiologist, and she has her CCW & grew out of her stupidity.
But the simple fact that she truly believed in the "peace, love & harmony" crap the media feeds people was scary.
 
"...Anyone who clings to the historically untrue and thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never settles anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms."
 
Wussification of America, these little idiots could not fight their way out of a wet paper sack, but are so good at texting that they can do it while scared and hiding in a restroom stall, yet "no cajones senor'" when it comes to "Cowboy up and kick the bad guys ass in order to save my life"
 
Pat-inCO said:
gramps said:
This is a mindset. It can be changed.
First you have to be willing to do more than stand there and quiver. :roll:

:D


Yes. And as I said, you have to be aware that you just might run into some crap someday, somewhere, when you least expect it. You can't let it catch you totally "in the white" as Colonel Cooper explained. If you are awake you need to be in "condition yellow" . . . alert, aware of your surroundings, and awake to anything that seems hinky, depending on where you are.

This does not mean you have to be "running scared" all the time . . . just . . . aware. Cooper called it "situational awareness" and I can't think of a better description of it.

And then you have to be willing to take whatever action is indicated . . .
 
Generous consumption of alcohol, and I suspect quite a bit of controlled substances. And people whose concept of manliness is extremely warped and skewed.
 
I don't know if it will happen in real life and I pray I will never have to find out but when I took the force on force course at the Sig Academy recently when I turned and saw a guy with a gun shooting another in the back of the head I drew and fired so fast it even scared me. I attribute this to the four day defensive handgun class I took at Front Sight last year.

I thought it was nuts 40 years ago when I took Ranger Training and they taught that if you knew you were being ambushed then your best chance to survive was to attack the ambush, fight your way through it. I was having a discussion with a guy who is a hospital administrator last month about 'active shooters' and he had just gone through training on this and was still being taught to turn off the lights and hide... I tried to explain to him that this had changed but he did not want to hear it.
 
Hospital administrators are very afraid of LEGAL implications, and what the public will think etc. Ed Nowicki ( a former narc cop)wrote a column in the magazine "Combat Handguns". He spoke of using violence. Many people feel being a Christian precludes the use of violence, but even Christ ran the money changers from the Temple under threat of violence. Not an everyday occurrence, but a tool to be used "when necessary". Until Ed Nowicki had written this, I had been conflicted. Not now or since. Good discussion guys!
gramps
 
vito said:
And Florid "No guns" signs do not have the force of law. Patrons of the club could have been armed with little concern for it being posted.

NOT "just "posted" BUT also a FACT of FLORIDA LAW concerning Concealed carry of firearms in an establishment where alcohol is served. That IS the FORCE OF LAW vito. I suppose you could risk getting caught, but then what? Would YOU carry in New Jersey; Since they are in the habit of running out of state plates looking for people with a CCW they can pull over and search?
Somehow, I suspect there aren't many "firearms admirers and owners" amongst the LGBTetcetc crowd to start with.
WHY didn't they or someone ATTACK the shooter? OH DEAR, It wouldn't have been "limp wristed" enough I guess.
 
gramps said:
Hospital administrators are very afraid of LEGAL implications, and what the public will think etc. Ed Nowicki ( a former narc cop)wrote a column in the magazine "Combat Handguns". He spoke of using violence. Many people feel being a Christian precludes the use of violence, but even Christ ran the money changers from the Temple under threat of violence. Not an everyday occurrence, but a tool to be used "when necessary". Until Ed Nowicki had written this, I had been conflicted. Not now or since. Good discussion guys!
gramps

Many people feel being a Christian precludes the use of violence

Yeah, that bunch seems to filter out and censor the verses where Jesus told his Disciples that IF they DID NOT have swords, They should sell their goods and cloaks and GO BUY ONE for their own defense.
Isn't that in the same line as Teddy Roosevelt and "Speak SOFTLY and carry a BIG STICK"; it doesn't get much bigger than a SR9 and 17 rounds of 9mm, of COURSE not TOO soft though.
 
Hi,

Some observations, full of questions, not so full of answers:

The one question I can't get out of my mind about this incident is "What does being gay have to do with anything" relative to this tragic occurrence? What we saw was human nature at work. Not straight vs gay, not conservative vs liberal, just plain human nature.

Take a look at the behavior in any other "mass" shooting, where you sometimes have adults, other times school kids, and while not a shooting per se, still an imminent threat to life, perhaps an ethnic/religious group being herded onto trains, and I believe you'll see the same behaviors. Hey, even schoolyard bullies get away with what they do because they "know" they won't be challenged.

I think there were three behavior patterns here, and two of them were ever so predictable: that of the shooter, and that of the victims. The "unpredictable" pattern was that of the Orlando PD, which, from my armchair quarterback position, appears to be have been totally inexcusable. But even in the comfort and safety of my armchair, I do know there are protocols to follow, and having watched the Hollywood bank shoot out years ago, even police officers are not immune from the "duck and cover" mentality. So maybe there IS some justification, though it's hard to understand even trying to step back and get an over view of the situation.

The one thing that seems to make sense is Blume's training, to "attack the ambush." But even then, the behavior has to be trained! So I guess it's safe to say most people won't follow that course of action?

Rick C
 
Rick Courtright said:
Hi,


The one thing that seems to make sense is Blume's training, to "attack the ambush." But even then, the behavior has to be trained! So I guess it's safe to say most people won't follow that course of action?

Rick C

I Seem to remember THAT Training during Basic; Ambushed turn and ATTACK the Ambushers !!
 
I learned as a small boy that violence in self defense will always not only stop unlawful violence, but it will prevent future problems. While in the military and as a life time LEO, there were many times when that rule was driven home to me.

Here is just one minor example I learned as a boy.

When I was a small boy, only 10 years old, I had only previously attended a small country, one teacher school on the Oklahoma Indian Reservation where we lived. I was orphaned the previous year and graduated from Sixth grade, as a 10 year old. I was graduated to the Consolidated School in town for the first time as a Seventh Grader.

I knew no one in that town school and since it was I was known as the son of an Indian, I was called "a Red Pink Unicorn". Since the Democrats still controlled the government in the south, Blacks did not attend the same school as whites in that area. As an orphan, I was living with a prominent farmer who had taken me in to live when I lost my parents, so I was permitted to go to the the County Consolidated School with white students.

I ignored the verbal words against me as a new kid in school but the older seniors regularly dumped my books and supplies out of my locker and when we passed in the hall there was one senior that regularly knocked my books from my hands onto the floor. his lasted about two days in my first week in the Seventh Grade.

The third day I borrowed a canvas Paper Boy bag from an older boy that had not given me any problem. Going to school that third morning, with the bag over my shoulder, I placed a rock, about the size of a softball, in the bag.

After picking up the books and supplies from the floor in front of my locker, carrying my book for the first class, with the bag still over my shoulder, a Senior, about 17 yeas old or so, laughed as he shoved me and knocked my book and supplies from my hand. As I spun around from the shove, I spun the canvas bag around and hit the taller senior on the side of his head.

The 12th grader senior dropped like a pole axed steer. He was out like a light with blood on the side of his head over his ear and in his hair. I just stood and looked at him as the kids gathered. I had not intended to kill the senior but I thought that he was dead. I actually was not sorry. Then the Principle, Mr Adams, rushed from his office. I was taken into the office and told to sit until it was decided what to do.

I learned later that when the senior regained consciousness, he was taken into the nurse's office for first aid. After about an hour or so wait, missing my first class, the principle called a Special Assembly in the Gym-Auditorium.

I was taken to the stage of the Auditorium and placed in a chair beside the rostrum where everyone in the audience could see me. Mr Adams then spoke to the students and teachers.

As well as I can remember, Mr Adams stated that "do to the unfortunate incident that happened this morning, we are cancelling hazing, and there will be permitted no more such incidents in the future". The Assembly was dismissed and I was permitted to go to my next classes.

I did not know what hazing meant but I do know that from that day until I graduated, no one ever made any overt action against me or my locker again in any way. In fact no one ever called me a Red Pink Unicorn again, at least where I could hear them.
 
Fox Mike said:
Very interesting article. Those that know me know that I don't have a very intimidating stature. 5'9" and 140 doesn't make too many back up. I learned early in life that until I defended myself I was gonna be 'picked on'. It is a 'mind set' that makes people freeze, flee, or fight. I learned early on, when something 'dangerous' occurred, to flee if you can but fight if you must.


Fox Mike... I understand where you are comin' from. I am 5'9"... and about 150 now.
 
I am not, and never was, a small guy. I was always head and shoulders taller and 50 pounds heavier than any of my classmates. At age 12 I was taller than my 5'11" dad. If you are a kid that big from a good home, it is drilled into you that you must not hurt the smaller kids. You can go two ways at that size. You can become a bully or you can become a polite person who goes out of his way to avoid intimidating people. I was a good-natured "good kid". Being the fat kid, good-natured and the best student, I would have been prime bait for bullies except for the size. But there is always someone who will try. If you show that you will not put up with any junk, you don't have to do it very often. Two times in a high school career was enough.

I am not going to lie. I have no doubt that life has been easier because of my size. But now I am 70 years old with health problems and walk with a cane, and even at 6'8" 248 pounds someday a criminal is going to think I am easy pickings. Rest assured that I don't intend to be. The right mindset is essential. Why couldn't a hundred plus gays repel one terrorist? For whatever reason, they didn't have the mindset.

One thing I have realized is that a cane is a pretty effective impact weapon that you can carry anywhere, into any situation, without anyone batting an eye. And where I can legally, which in Alabama is almost anywhere, I will be armed with a compact .45 ACP 1911, currently a Dan Wesson CCO. One thing about retired old fart engineers, they can likely afford to practice, a lot, and old doesn't have to mean slow.
 
I read one patron was hiding in a restroom texting his "mommy".
I attended a Jeet June Do school briefly, they emphasized that the mind is the real weapon, everything else is just a tool. I recall one instructor saying that you can use ANYTHING as a weapon, he cited a picture frame. Throw anything at a shooter or a knife wielder, disturb his aim, block his vision, etc. I saw a tape on TV from South Korea, a perpetrator tried to hold up a small ban, the two women tellers immediately responded with kara-oops, excuse me, Tae Kwon Do cries, started throwing things at hime, one threw a wastepaper basket at him. He left empty handed.
 

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