Why are all of Ruger's 9mms Polymer Frames Now?

[tkarter]

I was stating quite simply how silly I see the polymer verses steel debate.

A handgun that shoots as designed will do the job it is supposed to do.

There are a lot of things I lament passing more than the steel gun.

tk

 

[Yawn]

I have stated this type of comment in another thread, but I thought it would fit here.

I hear many people in this thread saying plastic bad, metal good. And to be sure, some have fair reasons. And in MANY other threads, I have heard discussion about the need for a good caliber... many "professionals" recommending 9mm caliber (and comparable) or bigger. I have heard people on this forum ralley for the bigger bore.

But I have observed an interesting dychotomy. In the Conceal Carry forum, many people posting there conceal carry their little LCP or comparable firearm, though they have at least one other"full size" gun, and often times many more. They say that they carry full size "in the winter months" or "for beefier protection" but their "LCP goes everhwere with" them. Maybe they are not the same people saying bigger is better, or plastic is bad. But I don't think that is the case.

Now, I acknowledge that size is one reason for statements about not carrying full size... but it is not the only reason that is stipulated. Weight is another factor why they carry the smaller firearms all the time. "need a good gun belt", "just don't feel like carrying that all the time". But that is the beauty of the plastic gun. My SR9 (which I think is very thin) has a full size feel because it is a full size gun, but it is so MUCH lighter than other full size or smaller metal guns. I went with a buddy to pick up his new 1911. It was the compact version and I could not believe how heavy it was. Just not used to the kind of weight now that I have been manhandling my SR9.

To the point: Yes plastic saves money for the gun maker, and I think some of that savings comes to us. But, in the day and age of conceal carry, I actually prefer the plastic. My SR9 is a full size firearm in a good caliber that can be comfortably carried all day, day after day, and I think a large part of that is the weight difference between it and the heavier all metal guns. And with guys putting tens of thousands of rounds through the plastic guns without a hiccup, I think they are an improvement to the metal. So, I am wondering if some who rail against the plastic are the same who carry the LCP because the all metal is just to much.

 

[Flash]

Beretta 1934 or an SP101 for me

 

[jsintexas]

Metal frames are fine if you plan to take the gun to the range to shoot.

If you have a CHL and carry everyday, weight is critical.

That is why most pistols designed to compete in the Law enforcement market are polymer frames.

I am a mechanical engineer and can tell you that polymers are not a problem if properly designed.

If you plan to carry, polymer is the only choice or you will leave the gun in the glove compartment.

 

[mrmike7189]

Metal frames are fine if you plan to take the gun to the range to shoot.

If you have a CHL and carry everyday, weight is critical.

That is why most pistols designed to compete in the Law enforcement market are polymer frames.

I am a mechanical engineer and can tell you that polymers are not a problem if properly designed.

If you plan to carry, polymer is the only choice or you will leave the gun in the glove compartment.

I love shooting my KP89 and use it as my home defense gun and occasionally will carry it in a Triple K shoulder rig, but for everyday carry i have a Glock 26.

 

[BulkAmmo]

It's supply and demand. The majority of customers prefer the polymer framed pistols. This is evident in the sales numbers and the fact that every manufacturer sells a polymer pistol. With the exception of the 1911 manufacturers, but they just make one style of firearm. I am a bit surprised that Ruger hasn't kept at least one steel framed pistol in the lineup. I have to guess that the sales just weren't there.

I think for most Americans the 1911 is the steel firearm. If you are going to get a steel frame you purchase a 1911. Yet another surprising move by Ruger. While they aren't known for 1911s. Neither is S&W. I think Ruger has really missed out in the 1911 department.

_________________
bulk .44 magnum ammo

 

[ArmedinAZ]

I am a bit surprised that Ruger hasn't kept at least one steel framed pistol in the lineup. I have to guess that the sales just weren't there.

Except for the Mark series 22s there never were. The P guns are cast alyoomineeum. :wink:

 

[Yawn]

It's supply and demand. The majority of customers prefer the polymer framed pistols. This is evident in the sales numbers and the fact that every manufacturer sells a polymer pistol. With the exception of the 1911 manufacturers, but they just make one style of firearm. I am a bit surprised that Ruger hasn't kept at least one steel framed pistol in the lineup. I have to guess that the sales just weren't there.

I think for most Americans the 1911 is the steel firearm. If you are going to get a steel frame you purchase a 1911. Yet another surprising move by Ruger. While they aren't known for 1911s. Neither is S&W. I think Ruger has really missed out in the 1911 department.

_________________
bulk .44 magnum ammo

That is just it... the market is saturated with 1911 manufacturers. And, I think the 1911 is on its way to novelty in another generation. I know some of you older floks may take issue with that, but I think a majority of my generation is not looking to a 1911 style gun. We like polymers... we have always had them in our lives. You see it in the sales records of Dupont and such versus the collapse of steel mills in the Northeast. I think Ruger and S&W are trying to stay cutting edge and not end up like the steel mills that didn't convert to plastics.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Well OK. My son is 26, his handgun of choice is a 1911. 2nd choice is Glock.

Having grown up near Pittsburgh during the collapse of the steel industry I remember the cause being foreign steel, not polymer...

 

[Yawn]

I am not saying that no younger people like 1911's... but every person my age with a handgun has a polymer one, either excelusivley or has at least one, just like your son does. You can't say that about the 1911, or any other metal frame gun. Again, I said that I think the 1911 is "on its way to novelty"... the emphasis its on its way, but is not there yet.

Yes, foreign steel cut the American steel industry. Why hasn't foreign companies cut American plastics the same way... because American plastics stay ahead of cutting edge. Maybe steel couldn't have done that because there was no more cutting edge to stay ahead of. But when you have a somewhat global economy with cheap labor in many other parts of it, you have to stay ahead of cutting edge or you will not make it. The technology will become public and replicated in a more inexpensive and often cheaper quality way. Point being is that I think S&W and Ruger see this, and are tying to stay at least on cutting edge, if not ahead of it. Glock one the battle initially just as Apple did with the Iphone. But if Apple and Glock want to stay on top, their R and D department needs to be inventing the next thing. So, that is why I believe that the frames are Polymer now. Less expensive to manufacture, lighter, and what the up and coming generation knows!

 

[WAYNO]

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That is just it... the market is saturated with 1911 manufacturers. And, I think the 1911 is on its way to novelty in another generation. I know some of you older floks may take issue with that, but I think a majority of my generation is not looking to a 1911 style gun. We like polymers... we have always had them in our lives. You see it in the sales records of Dupont and such versus the collapse of steel mills in the Northeast. I think Ruger and S&W are trying to stay cutting edge and not end up like the steel mills that didn't convert to plastics.

As long as you are convinced, then that's all that matters.

Accuracy and aesthetics are still important to my generation.

And, I wont touch your steel mill lesson, with a ten-foot pole.

WAYNO.

 

[dacaur]

That is just it... the market is saturated with 1911 manufacturers. And, I think the 1911 is on its way to novelty in another generation. I know some of you older floks may take issue with that, but I think a majority of my generation is not looking to a 1911 style gun. We like polymers... we have always had them in our lives.

Im not an "older folks" and I take issue with that. The design of the 1911 pistol is just as relevant today as it was 100 years ago. many of the polymer guns today have designs that originated from the 1911....

All my handguns are polymer frame (well, excepting my mark I .22) not because I like polymer "better" but because polymer guns are cheaper and just as good (and, as discussed, in some ways better) as a metal frame. Given the choice between a polymer frame and a metal frame, it would depend on what the gun was for. for a CCW I would take polymer every time. for a fun plinking gun or a home defense gun, it would depend on what felt better in my hand... I have to say, a 1911 feels oh so right in my hand! Let me tell you, I want a 1911 in the worst way!! I just have not yet been able to find one with the features I want thats made in America AND is in my price range.... I dont want it because its got a metal frame, I want it because its been one of the top designs for the last 100 years, and likley will be for the next 100. I sure wouldn't bet against it.

 

[writwing]

Yeah, you only have to buy a good gun once but plastic junk has a shelf life, it's that simple. I see they released another plastic paperweight.

A good plastic gun will out last you.

That being said, I will take a 1911 any day of the week.

 

[writwing]

Metal frames are fine if you plan to take the gun to the range to shoot.

If you have a CHL and carry everyday, weight is critical.

That is why most pistols designed to compete in the Law enforcement market are polymer frames.

I am a mechanical engineer and can tell you that polymers are not a problem if properly designed.

If you plan to carry, polymer is the only choice or you will leave the gun in the glove compartment.

LE buys plastic because of COST, not weight.

A good holster and a good belt make almost any gun easy to carry.

 

[Yawn]

As long as you are convinced, then that's all that matters.

Accuracy and aesthetics are still important to my generation.

And, I wont touch your steel mill lesson, with a ten-foot pole.

WAYNO.

hugh? :?:

 

[Yawn]

Im not an "older folks" and I take issue with that. The design of the 1911 pistol is just as relevant today as it was 100 years ago.

That is not taking issue with me. I agree... I was commenting on its perceived future not so much its relevant present.

 

[Donaldjr1969]

As somebody that has had some limited education in the field of polymer sciences, I can say that one would be surprised at what some modern polymers and their physical properties actually are. Take some carbon fiber reinforced plastics and measure their tensile strength, shear strength, and other elasticity properties against steel. You will find they are very close to each other. That alone convinced me that modern polymers are acceptable in many applications. Just check out Young's Modulus figures for many materials, both metal and plastic. Now the highest stress parts will always be steel. So I am not really all too concerned.

The similar opinions were seen in the photographic arena when camera makers started using polymers in 35mm SLR bodies. Oh what heresy! It will fall apart in no time! But that has proven not to be the case. Besides, in all but the lowest cost entry level cameras, the lensmount and mirror/shutter box are metal. My Canon EOS-1n SLR has taken a few spills from 3-4 ft onto concrete, gravel, etc. No damage beyond a light scuff. And from a purely functional standpoint, cosmetic damage is no damage. Now had that camera been a vintage Nikon F, such an impact may very well have left a dent in the body. And this was indeed borne out with all metal bodies that a hard enough impact could leave a dent. If that dent happened to be in a place that caused the body to impact the internals, the camera could be rendered useless.

I realize that I could be coming across as a pro-polymer fanboy. But that is not the case. I too love an all steel firearm as much as the next person. The feel and heft of my Super Redhawk ALWAYS puts a smile on my face. I am merely saying that from what I know about polymers is that they are well above acceptable for use in a modern firearm. I have no problems buying a polymer framed gun at all. Besides, I seriously doubt that the polymer grip frame of my 22/45 MkIII makes it less accurate than a standard MkIII with all other things being equal (sights, barrel length, ammo, etc).

 

[gatorhugger]

Metal frames are fine if you plan to take the gun to the range to shoot.

If you have a CHL and carry everyday, weight is critical.

That is why most pistols designed to compete in the Law enforcement market are polymer frames.

I am a mechanical engineer and can tell you that polymers are not a problem if properly designed.

If you plan to carry, polymer is the only choice or you will leave the gun in the glove compartment.

LE buys plastic because of COST, not weight.

A good holster and a good belt make almost any gun easy to carry.

I don't believe that.
Despite my love for my p93's, if I had to carry a 9mm all day, extended shifts, I would choose a 23 ounce pistol instead.
32 ounces(and heavier) is a lot of weight to carry, good holster or not.
Yes polymer is cheaper, it's also a whole lot easier to carry.
When something is made to work better, in this case better meaning lighter, and it's cheaper, then it's a no brainer.
Polymer is here to stay.
Each has it's uses, I like metal and heavier guns because it controls recoil and is less likely to have limp wrist jams.
But I don't carry it 12 hours either.
So cops will go for the lightest gun regardless of cost, and civilians always want what the police have.
That in a nutshell is the reason for the polymer explosion.

 

[Yawn]

So cops will go for the lightest gun regardless of cost,

I have no idea if that is true or not, but it is true that most departments are opting for polymer guns, and I would assume the combo of light weight, strong/long lasgting, and inexpensive is a trifecta they will not pass up... I think the numbers show it!

and civilians always want what the police have.

Couldn't agree more, for the most part... And why not... if the police like it, for the most part, it is a good self defense weapon. I think the Glock numbers attest to that. I have heard that statement made by some on this website.
[/quote]

 

[writwing]

Metal frames are fine if you plan to take the gun to the range to shoot.

If you have a CHL and carry everyday, weight is critical.

That is why most pistols designed to compete in the Law enforcement market are polymer frames.

I am a mechanical engineer and can tell you that polymers are not a problem if properly designed.

If you plan to carry, polymer is the only choice or you will leave the gun in the glove compartment.

LE buys plastic because of COST, not weight.

A good holster and a good belt make almost any gun easy to carry.

I don't believe that.
Despite my love for my p93's, if I had to carry a 9mm all day, extended shifts, I would choose a 23 ounce pistol instead.
32 ounces(and heavier) is a lot of weight to carry, good holster or not.
Yes polymer is cheaper, it's also a whole lot easier to carry.
When something is made to work better, in this case better meaning lighter, and it's cheaper, then it's a no brainer.
Polymer is here to stay.
Each has it's uses, I like metal and heavier guns because it controls recoil and is less likely to have limp wrist jams.
But I don't carry it 12 hours either.
So cops will go for the lightest gun regardless of cost, and civilians always want what the police have.
That in a nutshell is the reason for the polymer explosion.

Dont know why your argument is addressed to me?!

PDs buy on fuctionality AND price.

However a non-leo (both are civilians) has different needs then an LEO and should purchase accordingly.

Elite leo squads will often chose a 1911 for its superior abilities. Function trumps price.

That doesnt change the fact that a good holster and belt make a huge difference in carry comfort.