I'm thinking that the PC 9 will be basically a 50 yard firearm, with a stretch to 75 yards, max, as a hunting tool for vermin/small varmints. With that in mind, I'm considering either a red dot or a compact fixed 4 power. Possibly a good green laser and leave the ghost sights in place. I don't expect to do much long range target shooting with it! :D
What kind of optics will everyone be considering?
- Thread starter mikein
- Start date
Weaver makes a 1-3X variable that's just what the doctor ordered for anything 100 yards and under. Set at 1X, it's sorta like a red dot, except with crosshairs.... shoot with both eyes open. 3X will work as far out as you're thinking about shooting, and still has a pretty wide field of view.
A fixed 4X is fine for long shots at stationary or slowly moving targets, but it's a real handicap when your target is close and moving.
A fixed 4X is fine for long shots at stationary or slowly moving targets, but it's a real handicap when your target is close and moving.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-p-rimfire-2-7x32-riflescope.html?_iv_code=NI-RS-PR2732-16314
With the BDC 150 reticle. It's a 2x7 power for $180. (Without scope rings)
What I really want is the 1x4 Vortex strike eagle but it's a bit pricey. Also I think you may be under estimating the max effective range slightly. With a good optic you should be able to go out to 150-200 yards and still retain about 850-900 feet per second. Choosing the right round would be important.
Here's what I really want but I think it will be too much scope for what I'll be doing with it, https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope.html which is 100 yard target shooting in an indoor range. Man it's nice though... on the down side it's big and rather heavy.
With the BDC 150 reticle. It's a 2x7 power for $180. (Without scope rings)
What I really want is the 1x4 Vortex strike eagle but it's a bit pricey. Also I think you may be under estimating the max effective range slightly. With a good optic you should be able to go out to 150-200 yards and still retain about 850-900 feet per second. Choosing the right round would be important.
Here's what I really want but I think it will be too much scope for what I'll be doing with it, https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope.html which is 100 yard target shooting in an indoor range. Man it's nice though... on the down side it's big and rather heavy.
wwb said:
You're right about the fixed 4; a low end variable makes a lot more sense. I've got a closet/safe full of fixed 4's and keep hoping I can find a use for them! That Weaver 1-3 sounds excellent. Thanks for the lead.
Rei40c said:
Rei40c, that Strike Eagle does sound nice indeed, but it's a bit out of my pay grade. And, yes, the Viper is a bit heavy for a rifle that I'll be using as a carry-around arm to run traps and keep the raccoons out of my chickens. My concern with shooting the PC 9 out much beyond 75-100 yards is not so much the energy released by the little 9mm, but what the accuracy of this rifle is going to be. The bullet won't be pushing real fast and we have a fairly strong wind blowing here in Central Texas most of the time. The carbine is not going to be an RPR-quality shooter, I don't believe. For paper and metal targets, "long range" shooting is fun, but I'd be uncomfortable shooting at an animal at longer ranges with 9mm.
I understand completely and you are right. Two nights ago I was using a ballistics calculator to determine wind drift for 9mm at ranges of about 150 yards for both 124 grain and 115 +p and non +p. I entered only a slight 5 mph wind from 90 degrees and it pushed the bullet off by feet at that range. It's probably a case of me trying to use the wrong tool for the job and make it work. :D
The Weaver V3 is an excellent optic. I have one mounted on my FN P-12 shotgun with an improved modified choke. It'll cloverleaf slugs at 50 yards and one 1 power it's a Dual X open sight. I'm thinking about a small pistol size red dot like the Burris FF3. Sig and Bushnell make similar optics. Bob! 8)
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
UltraDot, Red Dot. :D
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/651463/ultradot-matchdot-red-dot-sight-30mm-tube-1x-2-4-6-8-moa-dot-matte
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/651463/ultradot-matchdot-red-dot-sight-30mm-tube-1x-2-4-6-8-moa-dot-matte
22/45 Fan
Hunter
To keep the cost and weight down look at the Bushnell TRS-25 red dot. If you have to do any night varmint elimination, cross hairs are going to be invisible unless you get a lighted reticle while the red dot is visible all the time and it's intensity is adjustable. The TRS-25 uses CR-2032 batteries which are cheap and available nearly everywhere and last a long time.
And I agree that a 9 mm, even in a carbine, is to much of a stretch for any type of hunting at 100 yards. Both trajectory and energy are against it.
And I agree that a 9 mm, even in a carbine, is to much of a stretch for any type of hunting at 100 yards. Both trajectory and energy are against it.
Shooting at 50 to 75 yards moving small game(rats) from standing with a 9mm carbine. Maybe think about 25 yards and closer, maybe even 15 until you master your skills. Unless you just kill them from a shooting bench.
If you go to a optic sight a small dot at 1 or 2 min will work, the 5 min is to big. As I mean you cannot see your small target.
A scope in a 1-3 or 1-4 power would work. A fixed 4 is to much. At those close ranges the parallax can be a problem with a scope not so with the optic sight.
I shot many rounds in a MP5 iron sights and there is a reason 25 yards was the longest range we practiced and that was targets much larger than you want to hit.
If you go to a optic sight a small dot at 1 or 2 min will work, the 5 min is to big. As I mean you cannot see your small target.
A scope in a 1-3 or 1-4 power would work. A fixed 4 is to much. At those close ranges the parallax can be a problem with a scope not so with the optic sight.
I shot many rounds in a MP5 iron sights and there is a reason 25 yards was the longest range we practiced and that was targets much larger than you want to hit.
Rei40c said:
You have to be kidding - 100 yards is already well past the effective range of a 9mm, even out of a carbine. At your stated 150-200 yard range, you no longer have a rifle - you have a mortar. The trajectory has become such a rainbow that misjudging the distance by just a few yards would result in a miss (unless you're shooting at a barn).
wwb said:
Maybe out of your carbine... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXFf34bB34
Start watching at 6:00. He was hitting a torso sized target multiple times with a kel tec 9mm 16 inch barrel with no optic at all. 200 yards is completely possible. Many have run steel that far out of a carbine.
57springer
Buckeye
Yea really ...................... :shock:wwb said:
Thanks a lot for all the recommendations on optics for my new carbine. Thus far, in my research, it appears that the Bushnell TR seems to meet all of my requirements of functionality and price. My Carbine will be a working tool out on the property and may not be treated with quite all the respect that some of my other firearms do. I've got a MiniRanch that's been kicking around the place for almost 20 years. With the Carbine, have any of you been able to tell whether or not I'll have get a riser to make sure the Bushnell clears the rear sight? I'd like to keep the sight as low to the receiver as possible just to reduce the "snag factor" as I roll into and out of the truck while chasing down critters.
22/45 Fan
Hunter
Bushnell also makes a "riser" version of the TRS intended for AR installation. It may be too high for what you want but it's a possibility.mikein said:
Then you need to figure out how high you can mount a scope and still have a cheek weld.
I'm blind enough that I benefit more from optics than most folks, but on a pistol-cartridge carbine, using a scope to make it more than it is , I think is expecting too much. A non-magnified red dot seems innocuous enough, but even for me, the factory sights would be more accurate than the 4 MOA red blob provided by a red dot sight. And that's assuming you're using the gun to shoot small, maybe rodent-size targets. If you're shooting a silhouette, then the red dot site might be a benefit. No matter what sight you decide on, this is a 50 yard carbine. Maybe more if you are good at judging distance and are proficient at adjusting for drop. If you're shooting unimportant targets, then I suppose distance doesn't matter, and you have the luxury of adjusting point of aim. Yep, you betcha I've fired pistol rounds at extreme ranges, but in most cases, it is like a mortar, where you fire for effect and then adjust.
22/45 Fan said:
Yeah, 22/45, I saw various riser options as I did my research. There's at least one of them that has the riser as an integral part of the scope body, and the, a couple of plain risers that sit directly on the Picatinny rail and then you put your optic on top of the riser. I think the smart thing for me to do is wait until I get the Carbine in hand before I try to guesstimate how high I need it to be to clear the rear sight and allow proper cheek weld.
WAYNO said:
I hear what you're saying, wayno! I need all the optic help I can get, but at some point you get to the point of diminishing returns, particularly on limited range firearm like the Carbine. I'll just hold off until I get it and have a chance to run it a few weeks, doing my usual "run and gun" pursuits and snap shots. It may very well be that what Ruger supplies with the Carbine is all the sights this old boy needs to meet his requirements.
FYI, the Bushnell TRS 25 with riser is #AR 731306, the TRS 25 without a riser is #713303. I believe the one with the riser would be to high for a proper cheek weld. The sight without the riser will attach straightaway to the rail on top of the receiver and may work without doing anything to the sights. Of course, if one acquires the sight with the riser, one can detach the sight from the riser and use it alone. I like the RMR from Trijicon, but it cost more than the carbine. Bob!!:wink:
Thanks for the I information, rangerbob! And I understand you about the cost of glass these days! I have quite a few rifles hanging around in my safe that I paid more for the glass than the darned shootin' iron! And then when you try to sell an "old" piece of glass, good luck.
22/45 Fan
Hunter
No, they really wouldn't.WAYNO said:
A 4 moa dot covers 2" at 50 yards and 1" at 25 yards. I have a C-More with an 8 moa dot and I can easily shoot into 2" at 25 yards. You would think it would appear like a pie plate but it doesn't. That said, the TRS has a 3 moa dot and there are other sights with 2 or even 1 moa dots. Also, "blob" is not right. Decent red dots give a very sharply defined small disc and the intensity control can be used to keep it sharp and clear in varying light conditions.
Now to address your comment that the factory sights would be more accurate. A typical front sight blade is 0.10" to .0.125" wide and your eye is about 24" away from it on a typical rifle with an 18" barrel. So using the narrower front sight width of 0.1", its subtention at 100 yards (3600 inches) would be (.1*3600)/24 =15" so your front sight is a 15 moa sight. A shorter barrel and/or a wider sight blade makes it cover even more.
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