What ever happened to the .45 GAP?

[Sal1950]

Sal1950
I beg to differ with you no the .41mag and the 10 MM .The ,41 mag in the M57/58 is just about as good as it gets as a defencive cartridge in the 200/210 gr L.S.W.C. and yes recoil is a bit heavy but for those that can handle it and shoot it well if was probably the best fighting wheel gun ever made .Same with the 10 MM in the Glock especially is an awesome defensive round and not to mention the hunting potential of these calibers .Yea a bit more than the .357 mag and a bit less than the .44 mag ,but usable cartridges just the same .
Lou

Don't misunderstand me, I not saying anything against any of these calibers. I own a Redhawk in .41, a Tanfoglio Elite Match in 10mm (and a 460 S&W Mag which also belongs in the "becoming extinct" group I listed). I enjoy shooting them all for their special qualities and I reload so very high factory ammo costs isn't a issue. It's just that none of these will ever reach the popularity of the mainstream cartridges. IMHO, There really hasn't been a NEED for a new handgun caliber for a long time, they just keep coming from that manufacturers so guys like me will buy it cause it's new and KOOL. LOL
Sal

 

[cruzerlou]

Sal1950
agreed.Lou

 

[cruzerlou]

The GAP is an answer to a question never asked...

Unless you're a female officer or a male with smaller hands.


Took long enough for someone to post this same old nonsense. :roll:

I'vs been teaching people to shoot for almost 30 years .You take a 5'5" 130pound woman and hand her a Beratta 92FS and she has to cant the gun so far into her trigger finger just to reach the trigger and her grip is so screwed up and she has to to bend her wrist to line up the sights on target that sight alinment and trigger control go right out the window.If this happends to be her issue gun and she has no choice in the matter as to what gun she has to carry as a duty weapon she will never be profishint with it .Give her agen 4 glock 17, an X.D,
. a S&W M&P and her scores jump way up ,so it's not nonsence it's ergonoimics .If the gun dosn't fit your hand you have to make ajustments and thats a bad thing .If the gun fits your hand you shoot it more naturialy ,like pointing your finger .thats exactaly why so many new autos come with interchangable back straps ,so that a department can buy one gun and taylor it to fit diffrent sized hands .And like I said the .40S&W with 180gr H.P.'s will do anything the .45 GAP will do with the same bullet weight
Lou

 

[cruzerlou]

When di the VSp sitch to Sigs in .357? My trooper buddy still carries a Glock in .40, along with his MP4 and 12 ga. pump that are in the trunk.

I checked witha tropper friend of mine and their issue gun is the Sig Sauer P-226 in .357 Sig ,the Colt 6920.LE. M-4 in 5.56 and the 870 .Even their tach team carry the Sig ,some of them have full auto capable M-4, and K&K MP-5 9 MM smg's but other tand the Sig Sauer P229 compact in .357 sig for undercover and off duty carry thats it .
Lou

 

[glockmutt]

NC Highway Patrol has been carrying the .357 Sig since the late 90's I believe. Originally in the Beretta Cougar, but since Beretta decided to sell the factory machinery lock, stock and barrel to Stoeger they have switched to the S&W M&P in .357 Sig.

Concerning the 45 GAP, I cast my vote for the solution to a problem that didn't exist.

 

[writwing]

>a pocket sized 45 is a great idea, disappointed that it didn't catch on

>>a pocket 357!!! An even better idea. The ballistics are amazing!!!


Never understood why people talk down a new caliber, it's not all about you.

 

[boomer1]

Read something on another forum (Superhouse 15) that makes sense to me....it goes something like this:

If you have small hands and want to shoot a big bullet - shoot 180gr. .40S&W. If you have large hands and want to shoot a big bullet - shoot .45ACP. If your job is large agency procurement of pistols for all sizes of hands, and get free trade-in after other makes wear-out, get Glock .45GAP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CartridgeComparison.jpg

(sorry, no .45GAP for comparison)

YMMV,
boomer 8)

 

[Cheesewhiz]

If your job is large agency procurement of pistols for all sizes of hands, and get free trade-in after other makes wear-out, get Glock .45GAP.

...If your job is a large government agency procurement of pistols and you need a free European vacation buy a ton of Glocks or S&W's.

 

[boomer1]

+1 Cheesewhiz :lol: :lol:


boomer 8)

 

[insaneranger]

Just wondered what happened to this round. I don't see anything about it anymore.

A failed Glock experiment. The GAP round had good performance, but there were no real benifits except the size. People didn't like the idea of almost identical performance to the .45 acp with an extra $10-$15 dollar per box price tag. My local gun shop had a police trade in Springfield XD GAP a few months back and eventually had to sell it for less than they paid to get rid of it because the ammo is nearly impossible to find and is expensive.

 

[hittman]

I'm thinking CDNN is (or WAS) selling new in box Glock's in .45GAP for under $400.00. Anybody else see that? Am I correct?

Bet you'd be hard pressed to get a nice USED Glock in .45 ACP or 9MM for under $400.00.

Is the price ammo-related? Who knows!

 

[Sal1950]

IMHO the 357 sig is the worst of the lot. What will it do that a .40 won't? And who wants a bottle necked handgun cartridge in the first place?
Despite any current popularity with some LEO agencies, I'd bet a case of real 357 magnum ammo that within 10-15 years it will be about as common place as 10mm or .41 mag in the holster of a LEO.
Let the flames begin. LOL
Sal

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Sal, not speaking for the use of 357 Sig in civilian or police use but it probably would be a very good military round in an urban enviroment.

 

[Boge]

Where the .45 GAP excels is in reloading. It takes a SP primer which is handy for those who reload 9mm, .38, etc. I still have a G38 I bought in '07 and it is easily THE most inherently accurate Glock that I have shot. Scarily accurate with my reloads. The ctg. is great to reload on a progressive press as well as it is impossible to double charge most modern powders and still seat a bullet. It also has a case head 1/3 thicker than .45 ACP so there is little chance of blowing a case head.

It is a well though out ctg. IMO. Let's face it, with modern powders you don't really need all that extra brass out front. It shoots best with VV N310, Ramshot True Blue & Titegroup in that order.

Timing killed it IMO. It will go the way of the .244 & the .225 Winchester, i.e., hanging on but never be a "barn burner." It's too bad it wasn't invented before the .40 S&W as it would have been a different story IMO.

FWIW, Glock sells more .45 GAP guns than 10mm.

 

[AZshooter]

If you see either gun or ammo in GAP, BUY IT! Take it home and put it on the shelf next to you Gyrojet or VL Caseless .22. It's bound to eventually become the marketing curiosity/flop of the early 21st Century.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

The GAP was a solution implemented by Glock to reduce their brick like 45 handguns. The XD came in the GAP but SA firgured out a better way. SA came out and showed people that you don't need a new round, just better engineering. XDs in the GAP round starting flooding the used shelves at local gun shops and sat for years before being reduced to move. Then Glock came out with the SF series. Now the GAP round sits in Glock's line-up for who knows how long.

There are people that buy Glocks in 45 GAP and swear by them. I'm not sure if its because they feel like they're unique but I know that 45acp is available in more loadings at cheaper prices than the GAP. BTW, you can't cut a 45acp case down to load as a 45 GAP.

The GAP also uses more pressure to obtain standard ACP velocities.

Here are some articles trying to put the GAP round in the light, however numbers show and nobody is producing any pistol in GAP anymore except Glock. I really doubt you'll see any new models in the future because it just doesn't sell.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/45gap.html

http://home.comcast.net/~petej/45gap.defend.htm

 

[AZshooter]

.... BTW, you can't cut a 45acp case down to load as a 45 GAP.

Just one more compelling reason to avoid the GAP.

 

[mbott]

The .45 GAP is alive but may be on life support. Glock is the only manufacturer actively producing weapons for the cartridge. There are a good number of LE agencies using the round. Florida HP troopers are carrying Glock 37s as are about 10% of all state agencies. The .45 GAP has gained support in the LE market. However, the biggest surprise gainer has been the .357 Sig with 24% of the LE market.

Life support might be an overstatement, at lease here in Ohio. I am only aware of one agency that carries the .45 GAP. We don't stock much of the ammo in either the practice or the duty round. In the 4+ years I've been in LE Sales, I've sold less than 5 cases total.

--
Mike

 

[toysoldier]

IMHO the 357 sig is the worst of the lot. What will it do that a .40 won't? And who wants a bottle necked handgun cartridge in the first place?
Sal

First, I do not speak from experience, my auto pistols being in .380 and .45acp.
The idea behind the .357SIG was to get the performance of the .357mag (rated #1 manstopper in E.R. studies) in an auto pistol. A high-capacity .357SIG, fully loaded, weighs less than most issue .357mag revolvers. And every article I have read cites the bottle-necked cartridge as key to the 100% reliability common to pistols chambered for the round. If I were a LEO and had a choice, I would go with the .357SIG.

I forgot my 7.63 Model 1896 Mauser, with its bottlenecked cartridge. Very popular, around the world. The Soviets copied the cartridge (with a hotter loading) for their pistols and SMGs. I believe it served them quite well.

Bottlenecked handgun cartridges are a liability only in revolvers.

 

[Boge]

...The GAP also uses more pressure to obtain standard ACP velocities...

Akin to 3,000 psi. I have farts that vary more than that.

What really hurt as well was all the 1911 "Kool Aid" drinkers who shoot 1911's only at a range under pristine conditions yet screamed "heresy" that any foreign ctg. could dare to challenge the .45 ACP, which was only rescued form extinction by IPSC in the 1970's. :roll: