My oldest car is a 2011 Subaru Outback, which has been a totally reliable and solid performer since the day I bought it new. It now has 172K miles but still drives like it did when new with hardly a squeak or rattle anywhere. But one of my headlights burned out so I thought I would replace both. Before I bought new bulbs I thought I would see how hard it would be to get to the old ones. Try as I might to figure it out I could not see how to do it. I gave in and went to the mechanic that I use and he had to remove part of the front wheel wells to get at the headlights. It ended up just shy of $100 for two new headlights and the labor to install them. I remember the days when changing a headlight took about 30 seconds and the only concern would be in aligning the lights properly. This made me think that the engineers designing the cars are clearly not giving the maintenance much thought, or maybe they have and want owners to have to come back to the dealers for basic stuff like this.
What are auto engineers thinking?
- Thread starter vito
- Start date
beentheredone
Single-Sixer
I have long been convinced that automotive engineers design for ease of manufacture, and hang the poor so-and-so who has to work on them later.
You got off lucky. When my headlights got dim I took it in and found they had to change out the entire headlight module. It was a sealed unit, took half the front end off, and charged $2340, fortunately there was a rebate offered for the work by the MFG, but it was only $800 a side, so got back $1600. I'd gladly pay the hundred bucks for yours.
Colonialgirl
Hawkeye
My 2011 Kia Optima displays the same degree of complete asinine stupidity for changing bulbs, especially the "low beam" ones.
My Jeep Grand Cherokee ended up costing $240 to change one bulb........ 'course it is 8 years old, and there has been essentially no repair cost beyond this bulb. 
Colonialgirl
Hawkeye
But, But, But, They are just working to make some idiot with a PhD in some stupid major happy when they met his idiotic demands !!
I was looking at what needed to be done to replace the entire clear headlight lens assembly on my 2011 Sonata. The entire front facia has to be removed to gain access to ONE retainer screw. The designers and the engineers should really talk to each other.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
They're thinking about their employment. An engineer who doesn't design what makes money for the company will be told to find employment elsewhere. What makes money is flash and what sells, not maintenance simplicity. And cars are consumable products anyway.
Can you let us know what kind of vehicle that was (so I don't accidentally buy one)?
You have to get in line behind other engineers. It’s not like one guy designs the car. EVERY bit of a cars design and real estate is a turf war. The biggest hammers in any of the fights are safety and government regulations. After that there are many battles, often depending on your groups manager and how tough or well he can negotiate for your piece of the pie.
Assembly does get more priority over service, but there are guys fighting for serviceability. But it is only one group against 3 or 4 in that fight. Body and assembly, the u ain’t working ( they somehow get a voice in design) bean counters and packaging all abuse the service team.
Trust me actual working (not book) engineers feel your pain.
Assembly does get more priority over service, but there are guys fighting for serviceability. But it is only one group against 3 or 4 in that fight. Body and assembly, the u ain’t working ( they somehow get a voice in design) bean counters and packaging all abuse the service team.
Trust me actual working (not book) engineers feel your pain.
I know that but sometimes you look at something and wonder who thought that was a good idea. Obviously somebody had
a reason for building it the way they did and it must have somehow seemed a good idea at the time. Be nice sometimes to
be able to hear it rationalized and decide, well ok that makes sense, or nope, and take the guy out and slam the door on his %$^&.
a reason for building it the way they did and it must have somehow seemed a good idea at the time. Be nice sometimes to
be able to hear it rationalized and decide, well ok that makes sense, or nope, and take the guy out and slam the door on his %$^&.
Captain America
Hunter
The worst I ever saw was on a 2006.5 Kia Optima with a 2.7L, I went to do the first oil change one(it was a new body style) and couldn't get the filter past the AC compressor. Turns out that during the redesign no one thought to put a smaller oil filter on for removal. The first oil change on all of them was free to the customer and we got paid to vacuum down the AC system, remove the compressor, put the new style filter on, reinstall the compressor, and refill the AC system.
Lots of new cars and even trucks have the adaptive headlights that swivel left and right with the steering. I wonder what those headlights cost?
Or the BMW we have, the headlights are described as “diffused lasers.” I’m not sure of the specifics but I do know in Europe you can have brighter headlights on cars. But I wonder what those headlights cost also?
I don’t want to find out.
Or the BMW we have, the headlights are described as “diffused lasers.” I’m not sure of the specifics but I do know in Europe you can have brighter headlights on cars. But I wonder what those headlights cost also?
I don’t want to find out.
BMW = BringMoreWampum(money)
I guess that are two 'facts of life" on display here"
1) Auto manufacturers make their real money on SERVICE, not sales. They design things to cost you AFTER you buy the car.
2) If you own a luxury/status car, you will pay your luxury/status _ss off.
J.
1) Auto manufacturers make their real money on SERVICE, not sales. They design things to cost you AFTER you buy the car.
2) If you own a luxury/status car, you will pay your luxury/status _ss off.
J.
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
I changed a bulb on my son's 2004 Caravan for about $20. I could order and replace the whole headlight assembly for about $65. I guess in about 10 years I will be catching up with you guys but for now I will enjoy the cheap road with older vehicles.
bigbillyboy
Hunter
You got it correct ;)
I just installed new high performance LED headlight bulbs in my wife’s 2018 Toyota RAV4. Total cost was the $75 a pair or whatever I paid for them on Amazon. Totally easy to do.
Armybrat
Hunter
Some careless driver just barely clipped my Honda Civic’s rear taillight (passenger side) while parked in a public parking garage, cracking it slightly.
The brake/backup/turn signals all function.
The Honda dealership said they could not order just the lens cover replacement, but only the whole taillight assembly…. $400+ !!!
I see online replacement lens covers for about $100 and still think that’s a ripoff. Online the whole taillight assembly runs a bit over $200.
The brake/backup/turn signals all function.
The Honda dealership said they could not order just the lens cover replacement, but only the whole taillight assembly…. $400+ !!!
I see online replacement lens covers for about $100 and still think that’s a ripoff. Online the whole taillight assembly runs a bit over $200.
Hate to burst your bubble but the manufacturer doesn’t get anything out of service but the parts sales if they are oem.
The manufacturer doesn’t own the dealership. They pay the dealership for warranty labor. Anything outside of warranty they have nothing to do with besides hopefully selling parts to the dealership.
Ford Flex: which has I suspect Ford's standard side ways engine...nothing special, water pump goes out..... $1700 and it is all labor... you have to pull the engine and pretty much disassemble it to get to the water pump which is internal. Shop manual says it takes 16 hours.
JackBull
Hunter
Its not the engineers its the accountants!
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black1970
Blackhawk
If you will notice all headlights are contained in a module with a lens cover. How many of you have had that lens cover fog up? Most have to be replaced by buying the complete headlight module which includes the lens cover. I’m going to try and wet sand my 2007 Tahoe with 2500 grit sandpaper then buff with compound then polish. You can buy only the lens cover but you must bake the whole assembly in the oven to melt the adhesive then glue the new lens back in. Not so with my 1995 Silverado and 1970 Chevelle. Or my 1991 Honda Civic.
rwp315
Single-Sixer
The engineers need to do service in a repair facility for a year or so.
Same thing happens in aviation.
Good maintenance people are worth a lot!
Same thing happens in aviation.
Good maintenance people are worth a lot!
Armybrat
Hunter
You mean bean counters.
Those guys ruined Las Vegas too. :mad:
