Very strange gun

[Ale-8(1)]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=214104999

Check this one out.

The description seems to indicate that a chunk of octagon barrel was somehow "added" to the end of a shortened factory barrel.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[wtchdr]

Doesn't it make more sense that someone changed the barrel to a 10 3/4 bbl and then made 5 3/4 of it octagonal possibly because it was easier than fitting the ejector to a octagon bbl. Just MHO

 

[Ale-8(1)]

The description says "the round barrel was shortened to 5 inches and a 5 3/4" octagon barrel was added, making the barrel length a total of 11 3/4".

Ignoring the math discrepancy, it sure sounds to me like the barrel was somehow "spliced".

Your theory does make more sense, of course.

And it's also possible this guy doesn't have a clue about his gun.

 

[toysoldier]

The barrel is round at the frame. The front sight sits on the octagon section. Just the reverse of a traditional barrel, with an octagonal breech section and round muzzle. Looks like the barrel was milled octagonal just ahead of the ejector housing. I kinda like it.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

By golly, you're right.

The last picture shows it.

And I also find it kinda attractive, if a bit longer than I'd really like.

 

[Pinecone]

It looks like the two barrels were welded and the "joint" turned on a lathe or milled. I'm assuming the rifling was matched up. It's plausible if the seller has his info correct. wtchdr's theory though, definitely makes more sense from my gunsmithing perspective!......................Dick :wink:

 

[Snake45]

Doesn't it make more sense that someone changed the barrel to a 10 3/4 bbl and then made 5 3/4 of it octagonal possibly because it was easier than fitting the ejector to a octagon bbl. Just MHO

That's my guess, too. It's all one piece, with part of it octagonal.

I don't think I've ever heard of two piece of barrel being welded together to make one long one. Not without then being relined, anyway. And anyone with the skills and equipment to do all THAT would certainly be able to make a half-octagonal out of one piece.

 

[Pinecone]

I knew an oldtime gunsmith in Michigan who welded a lot of barrels together on military rifles that had been demilitarized (cut-off). Also did it to some old single shots. He made some very nice cheap sporters out of those old rifles!..............Dick :wink:

 

[Bucks Owin]

That's gotta be quite a trick splicing two barrels together! Never heard of such a thing....

 

[TiteGroups]

Needs to meet the bandsaw.

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

I thought it rather interesting........Splicing means making sure you have those lands and grooves in the exact position. Some mean feat, I'd judge. I recall a SN 7XXX ten inch 357 FT that some unnamed "expert" cobbled together and the two pieces were off one mark. the seller swore it original.......first. Second, he just swore when I gave him my bore light.....This was circa 1986 at a Rochester, MN Mn WCA show....... 8)

 

[powder smoke]

That's gotta be quite a trick splicing two barrels together! Never heard of such a thing....

+1
Splicing a barrel I would think is dumb a smith would look at you like ya got two heads. I cain't tell from the photos there are not good enough. IMO I think it's a barrel change machine like that. Either way I don't like it. JMO as usual

 

[5of7]

I knew an oldtime gunsmith in Michigan who welded a lot of barrels together on military rifles that had been demilitarized (cut-off). Also did it to some old single shots. He made some very nice cheap sporters out of those old rifles!..............Dick :wink:

Pinecone....that old guy didn't go by the name of "Dutch" did he? Down by Three Rivers?

 

[chopprs]

.........one question........WHY?????? :?

 

[Bucks Owin]

Well, at any rate, I have my doubts that the barrel was "spliced", more like a heavy round barrel milled octagon at the muzzle end...JMO

(I kinda like it BTW, should be a fine .357 "varmiter"... 8) )

 

[Pinecone]

5of7, No, this guy was near West Branch. Custom pistolsmiths have been welding 1911 barrels and slides for a "long" time to get some of those extended jobs! I spent a couple hours in this guy's shop (quite a privilege as he was plenty cantankerous and didn't care for anybody looking over his shoulder) and watched him do this process. Knowing I was a fellow gunsmith, he probably wanted to show me how much I "didn't" know! He had a 3" brass mandrel that was rifled. Put half of it in one side and the other half in the other side to be joined lining the lands and grooves up perfectly. He clamped the parts together tightly with both ends chamfered for the weld. Tacked the joint in three places and then drove out the mandrel and finished the weld. Quite an ingenious operation to witness! He claimed he had never had a rifle returned because the barrel came apart on shooting. I would have liked to have spent more time in his shop "observing" but was not invited back. He had the best gunsmithing workshop I have seen to date and I've seen a few of them. It filled his whole basement. With the gun in question, it would seem to me that after the "flats" were milled, that barrel would have been awful thin to the bore! Just an observation as the extension seems quite a bit smaller than the round part. I think the guy was correct in stating the two pieces were put together...................Dick :wink:

 

[Bucks Owin]

Dick, wouldn't welding two barrel sections play hob with barrel vibration (Actually ocellation I guess) and be a poor shooter accuracy wise?
BTW, This is some interesting stuff, thanks for posting! :wink:

 

[Pinecone]

Bucks, Well, since I have never owned or shot one of these "creations", I can't say for sure. Harmonics are different in every barrel because of the wide variables to take into consideration. Cartridge variables, length, weight, thickness, receiver make-up, stock bedding, recoil arrestment, etc., etc. Maybe, someone will chirp in that has owned one of these put together's!................Dick :wink:

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I'd think that a proper weld (full-penetration, no voids/inclusions, proper filler material) followed by good surface finishing and proper re-heat-treatment should produce a workable barrel. The final shape/contour should have more effect on harmonics that the "splice" as is true of all barrels. Many military barrels have been screwed up by well-intentioned re-coutouring in the name of "sporterization".

JMHO as I'm certainly no gunsmith. I do know a little about metal fabrication, though.

That "rifled" brass mandrel is a great idea for alignment. After that, it's all proper welding procedure.

 

[tek4260]

Can't tell from the pictures if there is any discoloration from welding. Would have been easier to mill it to octagon rather than weld in my opinion. Where would one get a tapered 38 barrel anyway? TC maybe? Would the rifling be the same? In any case, it looks nice and has a correct sight, so it is definitely not a hack job. At the price, it wouldn't be a bad buy for parts!

 

[Pinecone]

Ale, Your absolutely right as the overiding element is the stress in the steel that "can" be caused by the re-contouring of barrels. I never felt comfortable doing these barrels but being military reworks, took most of the "unknown" out of the job if the results were less than "perfect"! Up to the early 90's, used military barrels were still pretty cheap to obtain!.................Dick :wink: