Two Gun Rigs

bigbillyboy

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I am binge watching Westerns today and see a few cowboys and gunslingers wearing 2 gun ribs . Just wondering if any members here have these rigs . And for that matter if you can shoot with either hand . Years ago had a friend who could shoot a rifle with either left or right and equally so .
 
I sort of made one. Belt and holsters are from Simply Rugged. Left handed cross draw holds a .45 colt 4 5/8" Blackhawk. Right handed cross draw holds 5 1/2" Single Six. No cartridge loops. Hmm, I wonder if anyone would make a cartridge belt for both .45 colt and .22 lr/mag?
 
Most SASS shooters carry a 2-gun rig. BUT,, they use one gun at a time for most categories of competition. I do believe there's a separate category for cowboys & cowgirls to use both handguns at once,, with one in each hand. And yes,, I have a 2-gun rig from my long past SASS days.
I preferred to use the one gun at a time method. Draw one,, use it,, holster, & draw the other. I used a cross draw as my off handed side gun holster. So for safety,, we are required to turn sideways,, before drawing the second handgun.
 
I carry a 2 strongside rig and I am equally comfortable shooting with either hand. It is just practice. I generally shoot Pale Rider in SASS. Pale rider is;
for full-load BP shooters:
Load requirements:
Revolver and Rifle
40 caliber and above
200 grain projectile
25 grains by volume of bp or SASS-approved bp substitute
*note: 38-40 shooters may use a 180 grain projectile BUT must use 30 grains by volume of bp/sub.

Shotgun
Double or 87 Only
60 grs by volume of bp/sub
1 1/8 oz or more of shot
I shoot 44-40, 200 grain and 35 grains FFg. A 10 gauge double with 80 grains FFG and 1 1/2 oz shot.
 
I carry a 2 strongside rig and I am equally comfortable shooting with either hand. It is just practice. I generally shoot Pale Rider in SASS. Pale rider is;
for full-load BP shooters:
Load requirements:
Revolver and Rifle
40 caliber and above
200 grain projectile
25 grains by volume of bp or SASS-approved bp substitute
*note: 38-40 shooters may use a 180 grain projectile BUT must use 30 grains by volume of bp/sub.

Shotgun
Double or 87 Only
60 grs by volume of bp/sub
1 1/8 oz or more of shot
I shoot 44-40, 200 grain and 35 grains FFg. A 10 gauge double with 80 grains FFG and 1 1/2 oz shot.
What is the shotgun , a double . Have any pics , I really like those "coach " guns 👍
 
What is the shotgun , a double . Have any pics , I really like those "coach " guns 👍
I had several doubles when I shot as well as a"97 stamped "Adams Express Co". I informally was a "warthog"! (full loads over 40 cal and authentic dress).

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I am guessing somewhat about the real west vs movies. I doubt many in the day had enough money to carry 2 handguns in a 2 gun belt design. I also doubt many would use 2 at the same time. Most movies it's just about looks. To the writer and director "does it look cool or make the character better or different than the others".
 
Here's a pic of my '97 in "Trench gun" mode. The pistol is a GI1943 1911A1 (The 1943 has pitting from blood spatter and served in the Pacific Theater): Randall #1 fighter:
 

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"I carry two guns. But the ankle rigs keep letting the grips of my model 29's bang together when I walk. I have to do some rethinking."

I had to chuckle at this. I actually know a (now retired) LEO,, who did carry a N-framed snubbie .41 mag in an ankle holster. He had a slightly different walk than many. But he was good with that gun!
 
The real 'old west' 2 gun toters most likely carried in a strongside and cross draw setup. This allowed the second gun to be accessible with either hand. Was also popular with the 'gamblers' because a strongside holster is not readily accessible while sitting (especially in an arm chair).
Two guns is a very fast 'reload' at the single action level besides having a backup if the primary is dropped or malfunctions.
Although I'm not a 'gunfighter' or competitive shooter, I can shoot effectively with either or both hands. In my younger days, one of my 'show off' tricks was to shoot a pair of 22/45 pistols alternately or simultaneously at steel 'falling plates' separated by 3-4 feet. Another was to shoot both pistols at a falling plate that would only fall if hit virtually simultaneously by both 22 bullets.
 
"I carry two guns. But the ankle rigs keep letting the grips of my model 29's bang together when I walk. I have to do some rethinking."

I had to chuckle at this. I actually know a (now retired) LEO,, who did carry a N-framed snubbie .41 mag in an ankle holster. He had a slightly different walk than many. But he was good with that gun!
Yikes. More manly than I am for sure.
 
I can also shoot with either hand one handed or two handed along with shooting Gunfighter both guns at the same time. I have both cross draw and buscadero rigs.
I had to learn to shoot the Rifle left handed due to going blind in my right eye.

I used this rig the most.
1712000945678.png



Looking for the Duke
1712001061840.png


A little left handed with right hand ready to draw right gun which will leave left hand free to grab and shoot rifle left handed
1712001265953.png

A little right handed and putting away left pistol so the rifle can be picked up and shot left handed. After shooting rifle it will be put down with right hand while left is picking up shotgun with left hand. Right hand will then grab shells for shotgun.
And that my friends is how you shoot a 22 second 10 pistol 10 rifle and 4 shotgun BP stage
1712001358002.png
 
A 2 gun requirement for cowboy is stupid in my opinion, as is a 9mm minimum for IDPA. These organizations may start out with the notion of being somewhat realistic, and then morph into pure game playing well removed from the original concept. I belonged to both early on, then I let my memberships expire.
 
A 2 gun requirement for cowboy is stupid in my opinion, as is a 9mm minimum for IDPA. These organizations may start out with the notion of being somewhat realistic, and then morph into pure game playing well removed from the original concept. I belonged to both early on, then I let my memberships expire.
Agreed.

Action gun games lost me when "practical" became anything but. I was one of 10 charter members required to get club affiliation with IPSC (Now USPSA) of the South Florida Pistol Club and left after whiners took over and the "practical" aspect went out the window.

I don't carry most smaller calibers used for SD but so many use .22's, .32's and .380's etc. and leaving them out of IDPA left "defensive" out of the picture too.

Skeet training for the field? High mount? Release bird on command? Four gun for skeet to compete?

With International skeet, it's 12 gauge, reduced shot payloads, harder, smaller, faster birds, delayed bird release, low mount and no pandering to whiners. I love international skeet... I don't break 25 but infrequently and getting 20-23 is no shame :)
 
"A 2 gun requirement for cowboy is stupid in my opinion, as is a 9mm minimum for IDPA. These organizations may start out with the notion of being somewhat realistic, and then morph into pure game playing well removed from the original concept."

I can agree somewhat with that, and disagree with it as well.

The 2 guns for SASS give a shooter more shooting time at more targets. It's a game & we all like to shoot a lot.

.9mm as a minimum caliber,, in a gun game where steel targets of a standard size makes good sense for safety. A .22 may not knock one down but it could easily ricochet back to the shooter or others. Having a minimum caliber & power factor is a safety thing.

As for starting out being somewhat realistic,, and changing. Well, the concept may desire realism, but to have a game,, with loaded firearms, and all types of people,, safety rules must be implemented. Having played a lot of these games or various competition types over the last 30 plus years, (USPSA, IPSC, SASS, Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays, Bullseye, Bowling pin shoots,) I can attest to the fact that none of them are "realistic" to a life threatening event where a firearm is concerned.
So I agree that they have morphed into a game away from realism, or the concept.

Why have they done that?

People.

Even among this great bunch of folks here,, we see different attitudes about gun handling & such. We see different approaches to how we carry, what we carry, when we carry, how we practice, etc.

So,, any game will require a set of rules if you are going to keep score in any fashion. Otherwise it's just a day at the range. And people like to be competitive. So, you make rules about categories, and types of guns. You make rules about safety. You make rules to try & "level the playing field" for everyone to where your skills determine how you place on the scoreboard.

But people,, being people,, act the same way all lawyers act. They study the rules, and try & figure out a way to "stay within the rules" yet gain an advantage over everybody else. We call these folks "gamers!"

And don't forget the marketing of different products. All kinds of new products have been designed to be used in competitions of all types,, that later became mainstream accessories for everybody. Holsters, red dots, lasers, are but a few items that have heavily influenced the games & also the general market.

And even the guns.

Ruger developed the Vaquero initially for SASS types. But other people appreciate them as well.

So, the biggest issue is PEOPLE. We all have different thoughts, and are not all the same. Some people play the games just for fun. Some for practice. Some for the fellowship. Some for improving their skills. Some with a desire just to win. Some to experiment.

The biggest take away is actually very simple. Gun games,, ALL can allow us to actually test our own skills against others or a scoresheet to see if we can improve ourselves. Many people shoot gun games KNOWING they will not be at the top of the scoreboard. But they also are only competing against themselves. And if you play a gun game often,, you actually develop motor memory skills with your firearm(s).
THAT'S the one skill you can use to your favor in the unlikely event of a real life dangerous encounter where the need for a firearm to be used in SD!

For that reason alone,, a good gun game can be beneficial.

And a close second,, is to develop better skill sets with any firearm,, to make us a better shooter.

So,, having gun games, 2 gun rigs, 3-gun competitions, USPSA, Skeet, or whatever can be a good thing. That is,, if you are actually a person who enjoys a lot of shooting and wants to be as good as your personal abilities can be tuned to.
 
Contender,
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the shooting games. That is the best explanation I have ever read and I have read a few over the years. Seems a lot of shooters can find a reason to not play the game rather than just play the game and have fun.
Like you stated if it wasn't for SASS and Joe Bowman there would not be a Vaquero or Vaqueroett :) :)
 
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"A 2 gun requirement for cowboy is stupid in my opinion, as is a 9mm minimum for IDPA. These organizations may start out with the notion of being somewhat realistic, and then morph into pure game playing well removed from the original concept."

I can agree somewhat with that, and disagree with it as well.

The 2 guns for SASS give a shooter more shooting time at more targets. It's a game & we all like to shoot a lot.

.9mm as a minimum caliber,, in a gun game where steel targets of a standard size makes good sense for safety. A .22 may not knock one down but it could easily ricochet back to the shooter or others. Having a minimum caliber & power factor is a safety thing.

As for starting out being somewhat realistic,, and changing. Well, the concept may desire realism, but to have a game,, with loaded firearms, and all types of people,, safety rules must be implemented. Having played a lot of these games or various competition types over the last 30 plus years, (USPSA, IPSC, SASS, Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays, Bullseye, Bowling pin shoots,) I can attest to the fact that none of them are "realistic" to a life threatening event where a firearm is concerned.
So I agree that they have morphed into a game away from realism, or the concept.

Why have they done that?

People.

Even among this great bunch of folks here,, we see different attitudes about gun handling & such. We see different approaches to how we carry, what we carry, when we carry, how we practice, etc.

So,, any game will require a set of rules if you are going to keep score in any fashion. Otherwise it's just a day at the range. And people like to be competitive. So, you make rules about categories, and types of guns. You make rules about safety. You make rules to try & "level the playing field" for everyone to where your skills determine how you place on the scoreboard.

But people,, being people,, act the same way all lawyers act. They study the rules, and try & figure out a way to "stay within the rules" yet gain an advantage over everybody else. We call these folks "gamers!"

And don't forget the marketing of different products. All kinds of new products have been designed to be used in competitions of all types,, that later became mainstream accessories for everybody. Holsters, red dots, lasers, are but a few items that have heavily influenced the games & also the general market.

And even the guns.

Ruger developed the Vaquero initially for SASS types. But other people appreciate them as well.

So, the biggest issue is PEOPLE. We all have different thoughts, and are not all the same. Some people play the games just for fun. Some for practice. Some for the fellowship. Some for improving their skills. Some with a desire just to win. Some to experiment.

The biggest take away is actually very simple. Gun games,, ALL can allow us to actually test our own skills against others or a scoresheet to see if we can improve ourselves. Many people shoot gun games KNOWING they will not be at the top of the scoreboard. But they also are only competing against themselves. And if you play a gun game often,, you actually develop motor memory skills with your firearm(s).
THAT'S the one skill you can use to your favor in the unlikely event of a real life dangerous encounter where the need for a firearm to be used in SD!

For that reason alone,, a good gun game can be beneficial.

And a close second,, is to develop better skill sets with any firearm,, to make us a better shooter.

So,, having gun games, 2 gun rigs, 3-gun competitions, USPSA, Skeet, or whatever can be a good thing. That is,, if you are actually a person who enjoys a lot of shooting and wants to be as good as your personal abilities can be tuned to.
I wish I would have found SASS in the early days, when you shot distances instead of steps and you had more props and movement in the game. I try to focus on shooting 'clean' matches and having fun. I use 44-40 for black and 44 magnum for smokeless with 200 grain bullets and loads with upper end allowed loads. That puts some realism in it for me. I want to make it good practice.
I shoot with many folks that shoot very light .32 or .38 special loads and are much faster than I. Speed they have, but put the pistol target at 25 yards and they have a problem, not me. I would really like to incorporate rifle rounds in the main matches too.
 
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