Nice Rugers
Two Gun Rigs
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David Lee Valdina
Single-Sixer
A 2 gun requirement for cowboy is stupid in my opinion, as is a 9mm minimum for IDPA. These organizations may start out with the notion of being somewhat realistic, and then morph into pure game playing well removed from the original concept. I belonged to both early on, then I let my memberships expire.
jack black
Hunter
I shot Gunfighter, Duelist and Double Duelist. It was fun years ago but it is a different game today and not for me.
Best wishes
Best wishes
Curious to why you think it is a different game. I started in 2003 and yes there have been changes made. But you can still shoot YOUR game and it is still a game.
contender
Ruger Guru
That young lady has a nice pair of Rugers there! 
Agreed.
Action gun games lost me when "practical" became anything but. I was one of 10 charter members required to get club affiliation with IPSC (Now USPSA) of the South Florida Pistol Club and left after whiners took over and the "practical" aspect went out the window.
I don't carry most smaller calibers used for SD but so many use .22's, .32's and .380's etc. and leaving them out of IDPA left "defensive" out of the picture too.
Skeet training for the field? High mount? Release bird on command? Four gun for skeet to compete?
With International skeet, it's 12 gauge, reduced shot payloads, harder, smaller, faster birds, delayed bird release, low mount and no pandering to whiners. I love international skeet... I don't break 25 but infrequently and getting 20-23 is no shame
contender
Ruger Guru
"A 2 gun requirement for cowboy is stupid in my opinion, as is a 9mm minimum for IDPA. These organizations may start out with the notion of being somewhat realistic, and then morph into pure game playing well removed from the original concept."
I can agree somewhat with that, and disagree with it as well.
The 2 guns for SASS give a shooter more shooting time at more targets. It's a game & we all like to shoot a lot.
.9mm as a minimum caliber,, in a gun game where steel targets of a standard size makes good sense for safety. A .22 may not knock one down but it could easily ricochet back to the shooter or others. Having a minimum caliber & power factor is a safety thing.
As for starting out being somewhat realistic,, and changing. Well, the concept may desire realism, but to have a game,, with loaded firearms, and all types of people,, safety rules must be implemented. Having played a lot of these games or various competition types over the last 30 plus years, (USPSA, IPSC, SASS, Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays, Bullseye, Bowling pin shoots,) I can attest to the fact that none of them are "realistic" to a life threatening event where a firearm is concerned.
So I agree that they have morphed into a game away from realism, or the concept.
Why have they done that?
People.
Even among this great bunch of folks here,, we see different attitudes about gun handling & such. We see different approaches to how we carry, what we carry, when we carry, how we practice, etc.
So,, any game will require a set of rules if you are going to keep score in any fashion. Otherwise it's just a day at the range. And people like to be competitive. So, you make rules about categories, and types of guns. You make rules about safety. You make rules to try & "level the playing field" for everyone to where your skills determine how you place on the scoreboard.
But people,, being people,, act the same way all lawyers act. They study the rules, and try & figure out a way to "stay within the rules" yet gain an advantage over everybody else. We call these folks "gamers!"
And don't forget the marketing of different products. All kinds of new products have been designed to be used in competitions of all types,, that later became mainstream accessories for everybody. Holsters, red dots, lasers, are but a few items that have heavily influenced the games & also the general market.
And even the guns.
Ruger developed the Vaquero initially for SASS types. But other people appreciate them as well.
So, the biggest issue is PEOPLE. We all have different thoughts, and are not all the same. Some people play the games just for fun. Some for practice. Some for the fellowship. Some for improving their skills. Some with a desire just to win. Some to experiment.
The biggest take away is actually very simple. Gun games,, ALL can allow us to actually test our own skills against others or a scoresheet to see if we can improve ourselves. Many people shoot gun games KNOWING they will not be at the top of the scoreboard. But they also are only competing against themselves. And if you play a gun game often,, you actually develop motor memory skills with your firearm(s).
THAT'S the one skill you can use to your favor in the unlikely event of a real life dangerous encounter where the need for a firearm to be used in SD!
For that reason alone,, a good gun game can be beneficial.
And a close second,, is to develop better skill sets with any firearm,, to make us a better shooter.
So,, having gun games, 2 gun rigs, 3-gun competitions, USPSA, Skeet, or whatever can be a good thing. That is,, if you are actually a person who enjoys a lot of shooting and wants to be as good as your personal abilities can be tuned to.
I can agree somewhat with that, and disagree with it as well.
The 2 guns for SASS give a shooter more shooting time at more targets. It's a game & we all like to shoot a lot.
.9mm as a minimum caliber,, in a gun game where steel targets of a standard size makes good sense for safety. A .22 may not knock one down but it could easily ricochet back to the shooter or others. Having a minimum caliber & power factor is a safety thing.
As for starting out being somewhat realistic,, and changing. Well, the concept may desire realism, but to have a game,, with loaded firearms, and all types of people,, safety rules must be implemented. Having played a lot of these games or various competition types over the last 30 plus years, (USPSA, IPSC, SASS, Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays, Bullseye, Bowling pin shoots,) I can attest to the fact that none of them are "realistic" to a life threatening event where a firearm is concerned.
So I agree that they have morphed into a game away from realism, or the concept.
Why have they done that?
People.
Even among this great bunch of folks here,, we see different attitudes about gun handling & such. We see different approaches to how we carry, what we carry, when we carry, how we practice, etc.
So,, any game will require a set of rules if you are going to keep score in any fashion. Otherwise it's just a day at the range. And people like to be competitive. So, you make rules about categories, and types of guns. You make rules about safety. You make rules to try & "level the playing field" for everyone to where your skills determine how you place on the scoreboard.
But people,, being people,, act the same way all lawyers act. They study the rules, and try & figure out a way to "stay within the rules" yet gain an advantage over everybody else. We call these folks "gamers!"
And don't forget the marketing of different products. All kinds of new products have been designed to be used in competitions of all types,, that later became mainstream accessories for everybody. Holsters, red dots, lasers, are but a few items that have heavily influenced the games & also the general market.
And even the guns.
Ruger developed the Vaquero initially for SASS types. But other people appreciate them as well.
So, the biggest issue is PEOPLE. We all have different thoughts, and are not all the same. Some people play the games just for fun. Some for practice. Some for the fellowship. Some for improving their skills. Some with a desire just to win. Some to experiment.
The biggest take away is actually very simple. Gun games,, ALL can allow us to actually test our own skills against others or a scoresheet to see if we can improve ourselves. Many people shoot gun games KNOWING they will not be at the top of the scoreboard. But they also are only competing against themselves. And if you play a gun game often,, you actually develop motor memory skills with your firearm(s).
THAT'S the one skill you can use to your favor in the unlikely event of a real life dangerous encounter where the need for a firearm to be used in SD!
For that reason alone,, a good gun game can be beneficial.
And a close second,, is to develop better skill sets with any firearm,, to make us a better shooter.
So,, having gun games, 2 gun rigs, 3-gun competitions, USPSA, Skeet, or whatever can be a good thing. That is,, if you are actually a person who enjoys a lot of shooting and wants to be as good as your personal abilities can be tuned to.
Contender,
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the shooting games. That is the best explanation I have ever read and I have read a few over the years. Seems a lot of shooters can find a reason to not play the game rather than just play the game and have fun.
Like you stated if it wasn't for SASS and Joe Bowman there would not be a Vaquero or Vaqueroett
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the shooting games. That is the best explanation I have ever read and I have read a few over the years. Seems a lot of shooters can find a reason to not play the game rather than just play the game and have fun.
Like you stated if it wasn't for SASS and Joe Bowman there would not be a Vaquero or Vaqueroett
buckeyeshooter
Blackhawk
It is a Spanish made Elibar double with dual triggers. It was originally a 36 inch barrel, however, I purchased it from a neighbor who had cut the barrels at 20 inches. https://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm163/buckeyeshooter1/10gadoublebbl001.jpgWhat is the shotgun , a double . Have any pics , I really like those "coach " guns
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buckeyeshooter
Blackhawk
I wish I would have found SASS in the early days, when you shot distances instead of steps and you had more props and movement in the game. I try to focus on shooting 'clean' matches and having fun. I use 44-40 for black and 44 magnum for smokeless with 200 grain bullets and loads with upper end allowed loads. That puts some realism in it for me. I want to make it good practice.
I shoot with many folks that shoot very light .32 or .38 special loads and are much faster than I. Speed they have, but put the pistol target at 25 yards and they have a problem, not me. I would really like to incorporate rifle rounds in the main matches too.
contender
Ruger Guru
Yep,, I hear ya!
It goes back to the "people" and those who want to win or such. Gamers for sure.
It goes back to the "people" and those who want to win or such. Gamers for sure.
Ray Newman
Blackhawk
I don't shoot competitively any more. But my 2 gun rig is .41 Magnums: an Acusport Ruger Bisley and a Marlin 1894.
Really don't shoot them much any more. Every time I am at the range one or two guys make offers to buy them. It's rather annoying --ha-ha!!!
Really don't shoot them much any more. Every time I am at the range one or two guys make offers to buy them. It's rather annoying --ha-ha!!!
So you want to put the targets out to 25 yards to slow down the few gamers/hotdogs.
What about the new shooter, who might just be learning to shoot, that shows up and can't hit sh!t at that range when the timer goes beeeep. They will be embarrassed and may not come back. People want to hit the the target and SASS isn't Bullseye.
As the shooters get older the movement thing gets much harder for them to compete. My good Pard shoots VERY well but has a bad leg and requires a cane most of the time and can not handle the long distance stages.
At a average monthly match of say 30-50 shooters there are maybe 10 Hotdogs. Do you really think the changes were made for them only. Most will win no matter what IMHO.
One of my clubs has a category where you shoot the rifle targets with pistol and further out targets with rifle. They also have a Cody Dixon Category that allows both single shot and lever rifle caliber at longer ranges . The CD is also a Texas State category.
My favorite club and one of the largest in the area is no more . Why because the board would not bring the targets in closer as the other area clubs did. I'm still pissed about that stupid decision.
When I shoot 125 gr. 38s the Blackhawk pistol is 800+- FPS and 1873 rifle is 1380-1400 FPS
With BP Old Armys 25gr. 3F and full case of 3F, 777 in 357 with 125 gr. bullet. Yea I also shoot full case 3F, 777 of 44-40 in my 66 and Henry
The bottom line is it looks like you have found your type of fun in SASS and that is great keep it up.. Fun is the name of the game. The average shooter probably spends 3.5 minutes shooting while spending 4 hours doing it on 6 stages.
It took me 30 minutes to find the guns in this picture....
jack black
Hunter
I started in 89 so I have seen so many changes some good some not so great. SASS is shrinking and that is sad. They took the wrong path around 1996 and the slide began.
Best Wishes
Best Wishes
buckeyeshooter
Blackhawk
Actually, I am in my mid 60's, not as fast as I was years ago. I shoot 4 different clubs and the stages are about the same everywhere. I have heard folks say that up close brings in more shooters. Actually, I do not care about slowing others down but more interested in testing my own skill at my (slower) speed with a greater challenge. I see your point with a new shooter. I would just like something a bit different. I am in Ohio, no long range shooting here, but TUSCO could do it as they have a 600 yard range. I have a very pretty Doug Turnbull 1886 in 50-110 with a 32 inch barrel that I would like to long range shoot with in Cody Dixion. I just do not want to go to Texas to do it.
Durango Dave
Single-Sixer
In the old west if they ever carried two guns they were not to be shot by both hands at the same time like in the movies. The 2nd gun was a backup. When one gun was out of ammo they would use the dominant hand to draw the 2nd gun from a cross draw holster.
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BearBiologist
Hunter
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2021
- Messages
- 2,984
I enjoyed the scenarios the best. The "gamers" did kinda ruin things, not so much with their mouse fart guns and tennis shoe "cowboy boots" but more the whining and needling to "hurry up, hurry up!!!"
Pretty much every action game started out true to its good ideas. But eventually the gamers and the pros took over ruining it for mere mortals out to have fun.
And like just about ever professional sport the professionals eventually start whining. At least they haven't become disrespectful woke spoiled children.
And like just about ever professional sport the professionals eventually start whining. At least they haven't become disrespectful woke spoiled children.
