Tough love......... THREADS MERGED

[Bob Wright]

I was talking to a very good friend of mine at church yesterday morning. His son is a recent graduate, with a degree in mechanical engineering. This young man has been brilliant from late childhood, especially in thing mechanical. His college education was fully funded and he graduated from the University of Memphis.

I asked my friend how he was doing and he told me all was well, but his son was in Tucson, Arizona. I gave him a surprised look and he continued, "I told him 'Son, its been six months.' You either need to find a job of get gone. He left Thursday."

The young man had told me on occasion that he wanted to get into the space program. I had told him I still knew a few men in the engineering field and might be able to arrange an interview for him, but he never took me up on that.

I do applaud my friend's stance. I know full well they provided a sound Christian home with counseling and backed his efforts. And do approve the stance they have taken.

Comes a time for fledging for every man.

Bob Wright

 

[turd]

Sometimes you have to kick them out of the nest so they can learn to fly on their own.

 

[blume357]

I wasn't living at home but almost 40 years ago I was into my 6th year of 'higher' ejumacation and working as a flunky in a hospital warehouse .... I finally realized no one was going to offer me a high paying job... next thing I know I own a one man business... I never made much money or possible to quote Jimmy Buffet, "I made enough money to buy Miami .. .but I pissed it away so fast." My only point is there are young folks out there that think they are owed a living and the only way they are going to learn the real lessons in life is to go out and get a job.. not the job they want.. just a job and start on the path to where they want to be.

 

[Mobuck]

My kids all moved to Iowa chasing the job market. Finally, the oldest regained his common sense and moved back to MO. (Just kidding all you guys who live across the line).
Never had an issue with any of them not getting out and finding a job--even the blind kid carried his share just helping me on the farm.

 

[Dave P.]

Not sure how to take the original post....
Did he go to Tucson to be homeless or because he had
a job offer?
Dave

 

[RSIno1]

We gave our daughter a roof, meals, education, small allowance and a swat on the bottom if she needed it. I gave her a sailboat I had and she traded it to a friend of mine for a VW Bug. She started working summers when she was 16 and saved he money so she didn't have to work as much during the school year. She liked the Merkur XR4TI so she bought one then a new Mercury Contour at 19. She'd work 80 hour weeks in the summer so she could work 20-30 hours a week during school (She worked at Disneyland and they'd schedule around her school schedule). A while after she got her BA she was working at Claremont McKenna college and came home to say she was getting her Masters in Education - we gasped and I started doing the math. Then she finished her sentence and said I'm paying for it. Now she has 2 masters and is principal at a Jr High making about $120,000 a year.

 

[Bob Wright]

Not sure how to take the original post....
Did he go to Tucson to be homeless or because he had
a job offer?
Dave

Fair question, and I'll answer the best I know.

Two years ago this young man went to Tucson for a vacation and was able to stay with friends there who were former members of our church. He has always been interested in settling in that area. From what I know I'm guessing he contacted his friends there before leaving. I don't know any arrangements he has, nor does his Dad. And, so far as I know, no job offer.

Bob Wright

 

[Bob Wright]

Not sure how to take the original post....
Did he go to Tucson to be homeless or because he had
a job offer?
Dave

Incidentally, my whole point in the original post was that this man, the father, had to make a tough decision, and did it. The dad is the main character in this scenario.

Bob Wright

 

[Mobuck]

"The dad is the main character in this scenario."
and he wasn't wrong IMHO

 

[Kevin]

He might not have been wrong, but I don’t think it’s right if he severed all ties with his son either.

Tucson is a long ways from Memphis, if the son is just sleeping on someone’s sofa, that might not lead to a good future between the father and son.

I don’t know, it’s a tough call either way.

 

[gunzo]

Sounds like dad gave advice, but it would have been actual tough love if sponge son had been living off Dad, & dad kicked him into the real world..

Way too much of freeloading going on these days IMO, & enabling the freeloaders isn't helping the matter.

I thought for years that my dad was way too hard on me when I was growing up, or when I was on the edge of adulthood & still in the nest. It took me a long time to see that his way taught me to stand on my own 2 feet & not depend anyone but myself. That was the ONLY way to live as a man.

 

[Mike J]

I haven't hit that phase with my kids yet but I do remember when I graduated high school at the age of 17. My mother told me, "This is great now you can start paying room & board." I wound up moving out at 18 & back in when I was 22 (Mom had bone cancer, my sister & I moved back to try to help.).

Sometimes someone needs a nudge to get them moving. I hope the young man does well.

 

[Dave P.]

Not sure how to take the original post....
Did he go to Tucson to be homeless or because he had
a job offer?
Dave

Incidentally, my whole point in the original post was that this man, the father, had to make a tough decision, and did it. The dad is the main character in this scenario.

Bob Wright

Agree it should have been a tough decision, only time will tell if it was right.
Not denigrating anybody's faith or beliefs but I've known a few people who
absolutely came to hate some religious upbringing that they felt was
forced upon them and were all too happy to leave it and family behind.
Never looking or going back.
Again....time will tell.
Dave

 

[Bob Wright]

Wow! I had not expected so much sympathy for the son. And he didn't "kick him out." He put it this way as he related it to me: "Son, its been six months. (Since his graduation from college.) Its time you got a job or get gone." He has told me that he has helped his son build up his resume. I offered to check with engineering firms where I knew some of the principals to see if I could get him an interview.

Bob Wright

 

[eveled]

I clearly remember the morning I woke up and there was a poster on my parents fridge that said. “Teenagers move out now while you still know everything”.

It changed my attitude for sure.

I basically lived at home til I got married at 30. I wasn’t a free loader though. Sounds like the kid needed to get off his butt and start doing something.

 

[Gator89]

Wow! I had not expected so much sympathy for the son. And he didn't "kick him out." He put it this way as he related it to me: "Son, its been six months. (Since his graduation from college.) Its time you got a job or get gone." He has told me that he has helped his son build up his resume. I offered to check with engineering firms where I knew some of the principals to see if I could get him an interview.

Bob Wright

I am confident my father would have handled the situation in a similar fashion.

I was expected to work on our farm alongside adults beginning at age 10. Failure to comply without justification was addressed with a leather attitude adjustment tool.

It is likely a good thing my daddy's child rearing was completed in the 1970's.

 

[ronto]

My Dad showed me very early that if I wanted something nobody is going to give it to me, I'll have to work for it. I mowed lawns, racked leaves, shoveled snow and had a newspaper route in order to buy my first bicycle. At 16 I got a job in the local grocery store stocking shelves, packing groceries for customers, etc. so I could buy my first car, a '53 Chevy. I know my parents could have footed the bill but I had to work my way through college with odd jobs and the G.I. Bill after my service in the Army. Kids have to be taught this early or they will expect everything will be handed to them on a silver platter and that's not how the world works. You did the right thing in kicking him out, albeit a little too late.

 

[Jeepnik]

I’ e been very last lucky with the boys. Yea they were a bit rowdy. But always stopped short of serious trouble. I was the same so I can’t complain.

They both went into the Marines after high school. Grew up fast. When they were discharged one went to work and college. He stayed home until he received his degree and got on with the P. D.

The younger one was always a bit more extroverted. After discharge he had some issues. But he didn’t move back home or go to college. He bounced around a bit and couldn’t seem to “decide what he wanted to be when he grew up”. The signs were there but we all missed them.

His brother finally had had enough. He quite literally kicked his butt and got him talking. Not the glib class clown stuff. He got his act together. Once he got the demons exercised he followed his brother onto the cops.

Some times the tough love has to come not from parents but from other family or friends. Sometimes you can be too close to see that big glaring forest.

 

[kramden]

My wife and I did something my parents taught me. Keep your kids informed what is going to be expected from them down the road. Have in advance conversations about dating-driving-working-paying room and board etc. It makes life alot easier if they are informed a couple of years ahead. That way it's already in their head and not a surprise. One of the best things we and my parents did was tell me that after graduation from HS I was expected to work and pay room and board. This started when I was 18 but at around age 16 I knew it was coming. Great lesson , but the surprise came when I was getting married at 21 and my parents gave me an envelope with all the rent $$ I had paid them . Did the same with my kids. Thanks Mom & Dad

 

[MYBABYISA44MAG]

I've done the same thing...I reached a point where enough was enough....it was hard, and hard on my son, but the relationship we have today is worth every ounce of the pain and stress it took to get to today...and I'm proud of both of my kids, for they both have excelled...tough love works..

 

[crstrode]

Anyone that is not looking forward to leaving home immediately after graduation from High School is a low-achiever in the making.

Note that this does include those that are college bound. Higher education is easily within the grasp of any kid without the financial support of their parents.

The secret is work.

As a matter of fact, the less well-off the family is the more opportunities there are for financial aid.

FYI I know this from personal experience.

All of my college loans were paid in full without asking for a cent from Mom and Dad.

The secret to this is to get an education that translates into a good job. A doctorate in middle eastern religion or advanced trans-gender navel gazing ain't it.

 

[blackhawknj]

My observation has been that parents who are in too much of a hurry to get their kids to grow up and get out, who don't help them pay for college-or anything else-who constantly lecture them about learning to "man up" and "take responsibility" are the same ones who, when they grow old and gray and sick whine the loudest that those children they couldn't be bothered with with now can't be bothered with them.
There's a pop song from the 1950s that is even more relevant today-"Got Along Without You Before I Met You, Gonna Get Along Without You Now."

 

[azleite]

I heard “Cats in the cradle” on the way home from the range a couple weeks ago. Made me think of my biological Father whom I “met” at 16. As to my other home life I (Literally) began plotting my move out at ten years of age

 

[Dave P.]

The secret to this is to get an education that translates into a good job. A doctorate in middle eastern religion or advanced trans-gender navel gazing ain't it.

I don't know, the direction we're heading they might be the hot ticket.
Dave

 

[blume357]

I personally don't understand the drive that all young people need to go to college..... I went for 6 years and ended up finding my vocation that really did not need hardly any of that 'higher' education. You can make a good living working blue collar and not have a 80,000 dollar loan to pay off after 4 years of smoking dope and drinking beer.

 

[kramden]

I personally don't understand the drive that all young people need to go to college..... I went for 6 years and ended up finding my vocation that really did not need hardly any of that 'higher' education. You can make a good living working blue collar and not have a 80,000 dollar loan to pay off after 4 years of smoking dope and drinking beer.

To this day I am very happy I never went to college and wasted all of the time and MONEY. Not to mention possibly becoming a liberal moron. A strong work ethic and a bit of common sense goes a long way in this life. Neither my wife or I went to college. Been married 52 years and have been pretty successful with Gods help.

 

[Kevin]

A lot of it has to do with priorities of what the family expects too. There is a lot here I don’t agree with, but whose to say I’m right or wrong or the other people are right or wrong.

I did go to college, and about the time I was supposed to graduate I couldn’t find a job, so I just stayed in school. I hope my daughter does the same thing. I guess I would prioritize being in school over a low paying job. But I’m sure some of you would disagree. And that’s as it should be, otherwise nothing would get done in this world.

I know in Bulgaria, during Communism, for a while it was hard to find a job, so many of those people stayed in school. Their literacy rate was extremely high during that time. But unfortunately their world was crumbling around them and they couldn’t do much about it.

 

[Bob Wright]

I'm of the opinion that a man can't have too much education. What he chooses to do with it is another matter. I made it very well in the engineering field with only a high school education, but I had an above average high school education. But I did lack certain skills that I wish I did have, especially in mathematics. And I do wish I were better read in literature and history. But I have always been of the type that wanted to know everything there is to know.

Bob Wright

 

[Mike J]

Education can be a wonderful thing if a person has the intelligence to apply what they've learned. I do not think education should be confused with ability though. My 2 older sisters both have or had the kind of jobs that are supposed to require a college degree. My oldest sister started off working in the "Office of Contract Administration", at a college as an administrative assistant. When she retired she was a project manager in the same office for computer related projects.
My other sister got a job working nights as a rate clerk at an air freight company when she was 19. Every time her boss would leave she would end up with their job. That company was acquired by a larger company when she was 28. She was the terminal manager. They created a position for her. The larger company was then bought out by a larger company. She just told me the other day that her boss is leaving. They are going to redefine his position & want her to take it over.

My oldest sister had 1 year of college. The other sister dropped out after less than a quarter.

I didn't want to go to college. I had no clue what I wanted to do. I bounced around a bit & wound up in the building trades. I started my apprenticeship as a Sheet Metal Worker in 1989. I haven't gotten rich but I've made a decent living and taken care of my family.

 

[jgt]

The best gift and prep for life as an adult is the gift of earning what you want in life. It can be through education, developing a skill, or both. I am from a poor background so I had no choice. I do not regret it though. It was a blessing that some around me did not receive when we were growing up. I watched them struggle in adulthood. If you have the means to spoil your child, don't. You can help them learn these lessons while still doing it with love. They will probably ask you why you are doing it. You can explain it is your gift to them then. Most will respond to the truth. They may not like it when they are learning it, but will likely thank you for it later.