This country is in trouble…

[Bear Paw Jack]

I listen to various podcasts in the mornings, because I think I get better more factual information than watching the news. The guy made a point that FMC has 5000 openings for mechanics, with open bays and full tool boxes in place, that pays $120,000 a year. But it takes 5 years to become a professional.
They aren’t available.
What I know is that those jobs are available in plumbing, electrical, h-vac, welding, and on and on.
Regarding the mechanics, the point was made what if we are in a war, we don’t have the workers to provide the equipment.
Two arguments came out of it.
1. There’s no such thing as labor shortages, it’s a pay shortage and Ford may have to raise the wages. I think he may have a point, but the truth is, too many young people aren’t willing to work that hard either to train, or do the job.
2. Government needs to no longer make education loans available unless they are willing to study for a degree or trade that’s in demand.
Regardless we have the answer to get workers which I presented as also the answer I suggested recently, is for wages to go up.
That will present another problem (IMO) of employers will begin to 1099 employees so they no longer have to provide benefits.

What say you? What’s the solution. I’m still troubled with the fact that the younger people don’t have enough of a work ethic, to be willing to do these jobs at any price.

 

[Lt Choate]

I agree with everything that you said and have a similar conversation with friends on a regular basis.

I don't know the answer to the problem as you cannot undo the mindset and expectations brought about by a generational lifestyle of getting everything on a silver plate by any quick action. Sadly, this generation is going to have to fall flat on it's face before it will sink in that they have to "gird their loins" and go to work.

 

[krw]

I wouldn't be a mechanic for $120,000yr!! When its a 4hr job to change headlights in some new Ford Trucks, have to pull the cab to change engines in lots new trucks, Can't get to a damn thing in any of them, and you have to start out with a laptop. This is all BS!! Make a $35k long whl base 4wd with a 350 and 5 speed manual. Make it look like engine compartment of a '75 model. Now I would be a mechanic. Give the consumer a choice!!

 

[GypsmJim]

I also agree with it all. Also, I don't have an answer.

I retired 10 years ago as a professional. I worked from age 16 to 66. The youngins in my department before retirement made me proud. They had the work ethic that I did. They were mostly in their 20's and lower '30's. They also had 4 year degrees in a responsible curriculum.

My sons are in their 40's and both are highly successful. College educated, but more than that they work hard.

Today, I see good and bad. Hopefully, the bad ones are the minority.

HOWEVER, when I see mandamai and aoc and bernie, I can't hep think we are doomed.

 

[gjgalligan]

the fact that the younger people don’t have enough of a work ethic, t

And whose fault is that?

Seems like every generation wanted their kids to have an easier life then they had.
We have met the enemy and it is us.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

In he buildup to WII, the Germans looked at us and decided our manufacturing base wasn't going to be able to support a war effort with a great percentage of our young men going into the service. What came as a great surprise to them was how a large percentage of our womenfolk entered the factories and enabled us to put forth a manufacturing output that swamped anything they had. And they did it at the prevailing wages.

We may never see that kind of effort put forth again, but we've managed to pull up on our bootstraps before and I bet we can do it again, even if some of the big corporate guys don't like the cost required.

 

[GypsmJim]

I wouldn't be a mechanic for $120,000yr!! When its a 4hr job to change headlights in some new Ford Trucks, have to pull the cab to change engines in lots new trucks, Can't get to a damn thing in any of them, and you have to start out with a laptop. This is all BS!! Make a $35k long whl base 4wd with a 350 and 5 speed manual. Make it look like engine compartment of a '75 model. Now I would be a mechanic. Give the consumer a choice!!

That's an odd comment. If I get trained and it takes me 4 hours to do what used to be a 30 minute job, what's the difference? I'll gladly be educated to make that kind of money. More than a living wage.

Now, if you complain because the consumer is being screwed, then that's another story.

Today, if you can't operate a laptop, or are not willing to be educated, then maybe you need to start a bizness cutting lawns.

 

[ArizonaTea123]

There's a whole generation of young people that can't read, spell, or write in a comprehensive manner.
There are certain ethnic groups that can't seem to grasp the English language either, and they are native born not foreign.
They graduate in ignorance, and they don't even realize it.

 

[krw]

That's an odd comment. If I get trained and it takes me 4 hours to do what used to be a 30 minute job, what's the difference? I'll gladly be educated to make that kind of money. More than a living wage.

Now, if you complain because the consumer is being screwed, then that's another story.

Today, if you can't operate a laptop, or are not willing to be educated, then maybe you need to start a bizness cutting lawns.

Just keep buying my Beef!! And when I 'mow' its on a much bigger scale.

 

[ex13F]

 

[s4s4u]

I wouldn't be a mechanic for $120,000yr!! When its a 4hr job to change headlights in some new Ford Trucks, have to pull the cab to change engines in lots new trucks, Can't get to a damn thing in any of them, and you have to start out with a laptop. This is all BS!! Make a $35k long whl base 4wd with a 350 and 5 speed manual. Make it look like engine compartment of a '75 model. Now I would be a mechanic. Give the consumer a choice!!

Not sure what the beef is on the wage, $60 an hour is pretty decent money. If you are getting paid hourly, does it matter what you are doing? It all pays the same. Not sure many hourly mechanics even make $60 an hour tho, at least around here. The shop owners charge $100 an hour and up, but the wrench who occupies the stall is maybe getting 1/3 of that...if that.

As far as working on newer vehicles, I agree 100%

 

[Lt Choate]

I agree with this and with what @GypsmJim said. What is the downside to making $120k? Sure, it is harder to do some things, but easier to do others. Much of the diagnostic process is done by computer. Why is this bad? I'm not trying to be a smarta--.

 

[DGW1949]

Not sure what the beef is on the wage, $60 an hour is pretty decent money. If you are getting paid hourly, does it matter what you are doing? It all pays the same. Not sure many hourly mechanics even make $60 an hour tho, at least around here. The shop owners charge $100 an hour and up, but the wrench who occupies the stall is maybe getting 1/3 of that...if that.

As far as working on newer vehicles, I agree 100%

I worked in the auto repair industry off and on for years. Sometimes full time, sometimes part time when I needed extra money. One of the things that I strived for was to complete each repair in a manner that restored that aspect of the vehicle to like-new condition....Then one day I found myself working on some little, foreign made, front wheel drive, something or other and realized that even if I did my very best, that this thing I was working on would never be anything other than the same POS it was when new....so that was that. I never worked on cars to make money again.

DGW

 

[TheTexasRAT]

In he buildup to WII, the Germans looked at us and decided our manufacturing base wasn't going to be able to support a war effort with a great percentage of our young men going into the service. What came as a great surprise to them was how a large percentage of our womenfolk entered the factories and enabled us to put forth a manufacturing output that swamped anything they had. And they did it at the prevailing wages.

We may never see that kind of effort put forth again, but we've managed to pull up on our bootstraps before and I bet we can do it again, even if some of the big corporate guys don't like the cost required.

I seriously doubt this new generation could pull it off.

 

[Johnnu2]

Once AI takes their jobs away; there may be a few who will go into the trades...or starve.....unless their parents support them all.

J.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

And whose fault is that?

Seems like every generation wanted their kids to have an easier life then they had.
We have met the enemy and it is us.

I’m not really big on blaming someone other than the young people. The only one responsible for their behavior is the young people. I don’t care what you go through as a young person, I’m more concerned about how you responded to it. Otherwise you go through life looking for someone to blame.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

I wouldn't be a mechanic for $120,000yr!! When its a 4hr job to change headlights in some new Ford Trucks, have to pull the cab to change engines in lots new trucks, Can't get to a damn thing in any of them, and you have to start out with a laptop. This is all BS!! Make a $35k long whl base 4wd with a 350 and 5 speed manual. Make it look like engine compartment of a '75 model. Now I would be a mechanic. Give the consumer a choice!!

Well I’m happy for you. We both know that having the skills and abilities to work on diesel rigs opens doors in all kinds of locations. There’s some seriously good pay here in Alaska on the slope. I’m disgusted with the number of young people that have nothing to show for their degree, and have no skills but complain because they can’t get a good job. $120,000/ year is good money nearly anywhere, they are few and far between.

 

[krw]

OK, ya'll interpetted this all wrong. Why does an automobile need to be so complicated it takes a $120k technician to keep it running. KISS. A good using Truck and a good using Tractor ain't asking for too much. Proof, look what older trucks and tractors bring at auction. People aint buying them to put up, their buying them to put to work. I'm goin to an auction couple wks to try buy '77 model JD4440.

 

[Armybrat]

My 22 year old grandson has finally decided that he would like to be a Porsche “technician” (mechanic).
He knows it takes a lot of work experience and training to get there, but is willing & able.
He’s a smart young man and has the work ethic to succeed.
His 15 year old brother would like to go to college and earn an engineering degree of some kind.

 

[instructor]

One of the problems we have at present is the high schools and colleges are giving out high grades to students who did not learn very much for giving a low grade would "hurt their feelings!! We as a Nation rank near the bottom due to academic failures in teaching young people any sort of discipline or trade skills. Many young people trying to enter college cannot perform basic mathematics nor read with any comprehension either. Teachers unions be damned, if their students can not perform basic or advanced mathematics or remember what they read or speak proper English who is to blame for this situation. If the student fails to learn then the teacher fails to teach is a long, but old saying harkening back to several decades ago and it is absolutely true today, but no one wants to admit it. I attended a large high school and graduated and then went to a small college for more education. Both high school and college were very hard on students and insisted on you studying for classes and passing not only surprise tests but the final test in order for you to learn the subjects being taught. Well remember my chemistry Professor telling me that you need to study more in this class and I told him I had devoted some 4 hours each evening for this test and only made a C grade. His response was if 4 hours is not working for you try 8 hours!! Best advise a Professor ever said to me and did graduate with BS in Chemistry and History as a minor subject and spent many, many hours in the library or the chemistry lab to do so. Education is a form of very hard work and dedication but todays elementary and high schools are not preparing students to go forward with additional education and therefore no careers are offered to them. The federal government is going out of the education business and turning it back to each state and that alone may well help the situation but only time will tell.

 

[GasGuzzler]

I have opinions since I have been in the industry (with a different manufacturer) since I started part time on April 27, 1993 as a senior in high school headed to UT Arlington on a full academic ride for an engineering degree I obviously never completed.

I will start by saying I have seen this specific example and others all over social media. There are two general reactions that are neither true or realistic.

One is that there's no way an auto tech can earn $120K per year and if it were possible, there would be no open jobs. Well, that's 100% false. I don't want to get too specific but some make way more than $120K but it cannot be expected straight out of high school or even trade school. Techs go almost their entire careers paying dues then make good money at the end of their run. To make this type of money you have to make yourself very desirable in many areas. Check all the normal boxes plus get your training to the highest level possible, earn the highest accuracy and survey numbers, and be well-rounded in all aspects (many shops are specialized) ... then make sure you get on with the right company and do what it takes to stay. It helps greatly if you have excellent proficiency because franchise owners speak money. Mine proficiency is over 190%, I have the highest level of training possible, I have 24+ years at the same location (different owners) doing bumper to bumper work as well as training the young ones, and I made #7 in my zone on a cumulative rating of those.

The other incorrect comment in reply on social media is there are no shops that pay good enough to make that or that warranty times are so bad it's impossible (warranty times are that bad but it's not impossible). Also false. Nationwide average is $28 per flat rate hour (remember me mentioning proficiency?). I think I was making that in 2008. That seems super low to me and so I understand why the average commenter thinks $120K is out of reach. I average about 3200 flat rate hours per year (no Sundays, 12 half day Saturdays, five holidays, 15 days of earned PTO) working about 250 days or 2200 hours per year. That rough math is 13 hours earnings per 9-hours day worked. THAT is where the commenters are having trouble because it's basically time and a half. Well, you gotta be accurate and not have repeat repairs to do numbers like that. You have to sell yourself as worth it by taking every bit of training you can, and you have to find an franchise owner that values those things ... which usually comes in the form of a family owned store. AI says that 85% of new car dealers are family owned which I believe ZERO as just a few companies own a huge number of dealerships.

We could hire someone now work wise but no valid candidates are available. Either it's a poor fit for too much or someone like me that wants even more. Former is way more common than the latter.

How much is someone worth that generates $1M in gross sales per year? Doesn't 10-15% sound fair? Yea, should be more but dealerships are VERY expensive to operate as the manufacturers throw more and more expenses at the franchises. Tides are changing and it is getting worse for us. When I started in this business the techs got just under 1/3 the door rate. Then I saw 1/4 then 1/5 and it's sliding for many (not me so much). We are in the "country" and our rate starts at $170.77 and goes up from there on matrix. We're not much more than the local small shops either. Put a compressor with R1234yf refrigerant on a 2018 Cadillac sedan two days ago and the bill was $2400 by the book.

$120K is not what it used to be. This industry doubled in price overnight in 2020. I made a Corvette ready today with an MSRP of $161,035.

The guys we hire in their mid-20's with some experience remind me socially and work ethic-wise of a 16 year old. My 15 year old daughter could listen , follow directions, and complete tasks more efficiently and accurately than the average 27 year old. I am not joking.

 

[p345Fan]

I listen to various podcasts in the mornings, because I think I get better more factual information than watching the news. The guy made a point that FMC has 5000 openings for mechanics, with open bays and full tool boxes in place, that pays $120,000 a year. But it takes 5 years to become a professional.
They aren’t available.
What I know is that those jobs are available in plumbing, electrical, h-vac, welding, and on and on.
Regarding the mechanics, the point was made what if we are in a war, we don’t have the workers to provide the equipment.
Two arguments came out of it.
1. There’s no such thing as labor shortages, it’s a pay shortage and Ford may have to raise the wages. I think he may have a point, but the truth is, too many young people aren’t willing to work that hard either to train, or do the job.
2. Government needs to no longer make loans available unless they are willing to study for a degree or trade that’s in demand.
Regardless we have the answer to get workers which I presented as also the answer I suggested recently, is for wages to go up.
That will present another problem (IMO) of employers will begin to 1099 employees so they no longer have to provide benefits.

What say you? What’s the solution. I’m still troubled with the fact that the younger people don’t have enough of a work ethic, to be willing to do these jobs at any price.

I think one thing that they need to do is not give grants to certain people to attend college. Hear me out. I have a stepdaughter. She is 38. And she is mildly mentally retarded. From 2005 to 2020 or so, she was going to community college for an associates degree.

She had to have an aide with her every minute of every class. She couldn’t the tests in the same way everybody else did. Had to have help with all of her assignments. Can’t spell or write beyond a low grade school level, etc. And yes, you and Inthe tax payers are paying for that. Paying for her to attend school for 15 years to not even finish a two year degree.

The longest she has ever held a job was probably a little over a month. Working at Subway. Her “degree is never going to get her a job, and, as she just had her third child out of wedlock (3 baby daddies with kids ranging from two to 17). She is never going to be able to finish.

She gets section 8, and food stamps, half SSI and SSD, and won’t reveal the names of two of the kids fathers and didn;t list them on the birth certificates. So she gets no child support.

She moved states away over the summer and the only time she really talks to us is when she wants to hit us up for money. She is 38 years old. Yes she is retarded, but just slightly. Not so retarded that the state will take her kids. I really think that she got pregnant the last two times to get increased benefits.

The father of the two year old is 15 years younger than she, and he works in the oil fields. He could pay child support, but she refuses to go after him. It wouldn’t mess up her benefits, but honestly she doesn’t want to be legally required to grant two of the father’s visitation. The 17 year old lives with his dad, who has full custody.

I think that she moved because two of her cousins, one a counselor and the other an RN, were petitioning the state to get the kids out of there, and live with them instead. We don’t have her address and when she left my state, she didn’t put in a change of address. We have no idea of what her address is.

The last time she needed money was last week. She tried to get her mom to send it to her friends address in her state, in cash. I said no way. Her mom wound up sending her money in a bank transfer instead.

She gets around 60o bucks a month in food stamps and has sold them or traded them off for other things in the past.

If an investigator comes knocking, I will not lie for her. But this is the kind of crap that is sinking our country. One should not be able to pay for schooling, in my opinion, with other people’s money, if it won’t lead to them getting a job where than can be a productive member of society, and pay taxes.

I hate knowing what I know, and I try not to learn any more than zi already know. If I were to say anything voluntarily, my wife would probably punish me as well as put me out of favor with my sisters in law, who have helped her with her little schemes.

My wife doesn’t really know much, and I am glad, but my stepdaughter seems to feel the need to tell ME things that I don;t want to know. The kids aren’t being abused in anyway, but my stepdaughter is a cheat and she shouldn’t;t be getting half the bennies that she does, and it would probably be better if the two remaining kids were to live with my nieces.

My step daughter is abusing the system, and abusing her mother financially. I am told to mind my business, but my step daughter is making it my business.

 

[DGW1949]

OK, ya'll interpetted this all wrong. Why does an automobile need to be so complicated it takes a $120k technician to keep it running. KISS. A good using Truck and a good using Tractor ain't asking for too much. Proof, look what older trucks and tractors bring at auction. People aint buying them to put up, their buying them to put to work. I'm goin to an auction couple wks to try buy '77 model JD4440.

"Why does an automobile need to be so complicated it takes a $120k technician to keep it running.".....

The simple answer is that most Americans want complicated automobiles that do their thinking for them. That, and we have allowed our government to dictate more and more of "required standards" that motor vehicles must adhere to....And all of that comes with a price. Hence today's 80-90 thousand dollar pick up trucks. I mean really, haven't you noticed how quickly people get hypnotized by high-tech do-dads these days?...it's as if nothing else matters except "look at what my new truck can do"..LOL.

Don't get me wrong here, I do get what you're saying. Myself, I'd like nothing better than a like-new 1959 Ford Galaxie 500 2-door with the 352 Police engine and overdrive transmission options. No power brakes, no power steering, and hand-crank windows....Yep, that would do it for me, and I wouldn't care how much gas it used.

DGW

 

[Jeepnik]

While I agree the younger folks need to get real as to what their abilities and talents are and learn accordingly, I can't agree that in time of war we would suffer. Look at the spirit that arose after 9-11. It was the same sort of reaction that arose after 12-7.

We had a labor shortage. Both in that we were still coming out of depression and many men went into the military. The solution was simple. Older women like my dad's mom who worked in an aircraft factory or my mom's mom who went to work in a local army hospital. Younger women like my mom who repaired aircraft radios, her older sister (a navy wife) who worked in a navy hospital, and the younger sister that after graduating high school became worker in a tire factory. I'm pretty sure that the young and old would again step up.

 

[mirglip]

Before the age of teevee and public schools, work ethic was passed from one generation to another.
Where would young people get work ethic these days? Parents no longer have any influence over their kids. The modern influencers have glorified the parasites, glorified victimhood and convinced kids that getting something for nothing is where it's at. If Dad tries to teach work ethic, they don't want to listen to Dad.
I have never seen teevee, public schools or colleges promote work ethic.

 

[DGW1949]

I taught work ethic to mine, and there wasn't much to it. Basically, I just raised them the same way I had been raised. It being simple to do however, doesn't mean that it was easy to do. Way too many outside influences these days for that......The struggle did pay off in the long run though. All of mine left home and got on their own shortly after graduating High School. Our oldest was fully retired before he turned 40, His younger brother makes a 6-figure income every year selling tractors, and one Daughter is operations manager for two branches of a manufacturing facility. The other of my girls never worked at a job very long because she decided to be a stay at home house wife instead so she could raise and home-school her kids, which are now grown and out on their own themselves.
And FWIW, not a one of them has been to collage....Don't need to if ya know how to work.

DGW

 

[Watertender]

p345Fan that is absolutely disgusting. I know of similar situations and they ride the system like an amusement park ride. I feel bad for you because your wife will always be a sucker for her daughter.

 

[p345Fan]

p345Fan that is absolutely disgusting. I know of similar situations and they ride the system like an amusement park ride. I feel bad for you because your wife will always be a sucker for her daughter.

Yes, it really makes me sad. My wife was the only one of her father’s five daughters to actually leave the nest. Her one sister stayed with her mom and dad along with her husband who was an auto mechanic, to take care of mom and dad. Both with health problems.

My father in law was a Korea vet. His pension and my brother in law’s income kept them all afloat.

Her other three sisters married worthless men who never worked. Two of her sisters eventually moved out by their thirties, but stayed with the worthless men. One of the men molested my stepdaughter and niece.

One is still living on the property with her worthless husband and worthless molester BIL.

The good sister stayed until both of her parent’s had passed, and then she and her husband promptly left. Escaping far away from the three toxic sisters.

My wife’s first husband never worked and was an alcoholic and molested little girls. She got rid of him when my stepdaughter was just a couple of years old.

I met my wife at work. We both worked in the same hospital. She did a variety of different support jobs in the hospital. She is ten years older than me. We met when I was a freshman intern non physician practitioner of limited scope.

There were a group of us at the hospital that were shooters. That is how my wife and I met. A couple of years later, I was taking care of her mom in the ICU when she had cancer. I had already met my wife’s family.

Her dad had an awesome piece of property with it’s own 200 yard range and a separate outbuilding behind the house the size of a small house with a walk in gun vault and a reloading room and a large plate glass window, sliding door type of thing that would allow you to open it up and shoot, three firing points wide, from inside the building under cover. We used to go there and shoot with her dad when it was rainy.

My wife was a competition shooter back in the 70’s. When she married the loser, the father of her children, her rifle went in the safe. She had no time for shooting when her kids were young as she had to work nights. She did this for thirty years.

About five years into knowing her and her family, the good sister took me aside and said that my wife really liked me. I really had no idea.

Well we were best buds and eventually in 2008, she lost her house. As she lived an hour outside of town, I let her stay with me during the week and she returned to her parent’s house on the weekends. Two years later we were married.

Her daughter was never around. She ran off as a teenager with her friend to live in another state, and my wife was raising my niece because she didn’t get along with her mother. Long story short, daughter resented mother for having to work nights to keep a roof over her head and her brother’s. She eventually came back though and graduated thigh school and got pregnant by a guy my age a couple of years after finishing high school. And yes, she was in special ed.

So now daughter is 38 and will be 39 in a few months. I offered to have her and my granddaughter move in with us, but she wouldn’t because I wouldn’t let her bring over guys. Sorry but that’s not what you do in front of your children when you aren’t married.

Every couple of years daughter had granddaughter calling a new guy dad. It isn’t good. But there is nothing I can do about it. They moved from Oregon to South Dakota. When they were here before, sometimes my granddaughter would stay for a week or two at a time because her mom couldn’t get my granddaughter to school as she had no car. She always bought POS cars that broke down.

We couldn’t buy her a good care, because she would lose her SSI. So she left for South Dakota to continue to do what she wants without accountability.

 

[mirglip]

I taught work ethic to mine, and there wasn't much to it. Basically, I just raised them the same way I had been raised. It being simple to do however, doesn't mean that it was easy to do. Way too many outside influences these days for that......The struggle did pay off in the long run though. All of mine left home and got on their own shortly after graduating High School. Our oldest was fully retired before he turned 40, His younger brother makes a 6-figure income every year selling tractors, and one Daughter is operations manager for two branches of a manufacturing facility. The other of my girls never worked at a job very long because she decided to be a stay at home house wife instead so she could raise and home-school her kids, which are now grown and out on their own themselves.
And FWIW, not a one of them has been to collage....Don't need to if ya know how to work.

DGW

Bad behavior in dogs people and horses is often attributed to lack of exercise. If you teach your children work ethic they will usually turn out OK even if the rest of your parenting is neglectful and sloppy.
Nowadays parents don't teach their children work ethic yet they spend a fortune sending them to college. Then they wonder why their son comes home arm in arm with another man and their daughter comes home arm in arm with a third world immigrant.
They don't call colleges indoctrination camps for nothing.

 

[bobski]

pushing buttons is about all the new genration can do without breaking a sweat.
yet, theyll run 3 miles every morning on a tread mill for excercise and pump iron to buff up to attract the chicks....or other men.