This burns my butt

[volshooter]

Got a call from an older widow yesterday. Her inside AC unit was leaking water. She called a HVAC place that told her it would be $325 for a service call so she called me. Condensation drain was glued PVC with no cleanout. I fixed it for her. Cost of material was $8.35, my time was rewarded with a nice BLT lunch. It took me 20 minutes to clean out the drain and add a cleanout.

What is wrong with tradesman?????
Friken thieves at best.
Last year her hot water tank started leaking and she called a plumber. He told her $750, bastard. I done it for $37 in parts.

I was in the business for 30 years and am ashamed of the prices being charged, especially to our seniors. These folk have no shame and I have put them on the same level as lawyers. SCUM.
Just when did tradesman decide to charge outrageous prices for their services?

The afore mentioned hot water heater took less than 2 hours and the new HWH was bought by the lady!!!
To over charge for services will not get you any referrals and you are trash to over charge senior citizens regardless of their financial status and is a sin.
Where has the honest pride in workmanship gone? The honest days pay for your labor and the good feeling you get from it?
Call me a sucker but I have done many small jobs (with homeowner paying for parts) and took in payment a meal and small talk. Sickens me.
If you are one of these folk that take advantage of folk, don't ever respond or PM me. You are dead to me.

 

[Chuckbuster II]

Understand exactly where you coming from. Used to have the neighborhood hardware store in the town I grew up in. "Lost Money" many times over the years, but am all the richer for it.

KdK

 

[Jim Puke]

She could be a like a couple of older folks that I know...told you that she was quoted that price...so that you would come fix it for her.

 

[Selena]

At the risk of a rant coming on I'll keep this short. Somewhere along the line we have forgotten that we and our neighbors are all in this together. I'm told there was a time a person's place in the community was part and parcel to the level of service they gave to the community. In my grandmother's day if there was a dinner at the church the volunteers would outnumber those eating. We have a church dinner now the women that come in to help can be counted on the fingers of one hand and then they are usually elderly. Last month we had a funeral dinner, the age gap between me and the next youngest working was almost 30 years.

I blame a lot of things for it. I guess what it boils down to is people stopped believing that it's better to give than receive. We don't want to be seen as bitter clingers to religion so the parts of Christianity that made this a gentler nation fell by the wayside. Good on you Volshooter, you still live the values I hold dear and you have my respect and esteem for the fact.

 

[Colonialgirl]

Well, We live in a semi-rural neighborhood and have had some local "tradesmen" stop by to help when they saw us out working. One is a local Pump and water well guy. First time, he replaced a pump start condenser with a used one he had and refused ANY money (Note; We have a 100+ft deep well and a submersible pump) this last time he stopped by and it was a similar problem and he replaced it with a NEW condenser, cost $20, but we insisted he take $40. We later went to the local Home Depot and bought a NEW condenser and associated whatever, PLUS we had noticed Arcing when the pressure switched operated, SO we bought a new switch too. We did all the replacement our selves. The Pressure switch had a set of BADLY burned contacts, so it was probably the cause of the condenser problems. We did appreciate the neighbors help. We now have a neighbor that works as a tree trimmer and in his time between jobs has been trimming our trees for us at minimal cost; He's really quite good and safety conscious too. lad to have him because with my pinched back nerve and Ashley's problems, we are no longer able to climb ladders.

 

[Jim Puke]

I really think that places will put a ridiculous price on a minor job, because they just don't want to do that kind of job. A lot of times, a one man show, will do these jobs for a reasonable price.

 

[Viking Queen]

Thank goodness there are still people in the world like you. Taking care of others. God Bless.

VQ

 

[Cholo]

I was doing a minor service call at an elderly client's home. They asked me how much it would cost to do X while I was there. I measured it out and gave them a very reasonable price of $200. They looked at each other perplexed and I could hear them saying that they needed it done, but they didn't realize it would cost $2,000, and said okay. They actually would have paid me $2k! :shock: They were relieved to know it was only $200.

I wonder how many people would have taken their $2k? :?

 

[cas6969]

I really think that places will put a ridiculous price on a minor job, because they just don't want to do that kind of job. A lot of times, a one man show, will do these jobs for a reasonable price.

I think that's often true. A lot of companies seem to work on "once is enough" as well. It doesn't matter if we rip you off and never call us again, because we hit you hard enough the first time. That's usually large high exposure companies with lots of new customers.

Conversely some people feel better about paying a lot, they think they got a better job done because of it. They also like the "show", they feel they got their money's worth.
I'd see that often in the family business, someone would need a new line from the house to the septic tank... you'd quote them a price, to hand dig it and replace it, and when the job was finished you'd hardly know it'd been done. You give them a price and they'd baulk. Tell you they'd have to think about it. Maybe it's because they think it's something they could do themselves... "Heck I could do that, I'm not paying that." Then they'd end up calling someone else who'd come in with a piece of heavy equipment, destroy the yard, then charge them 3 times what you wanted... and then happily pay it because they felt they got their moneys worth. People are strange.

 

[slowhand]

CG, I do water well and pump work too.Did you check the air pressure in your tank?If do so pretty quick.The quick cycling will cause the problems you had also.

 

[eveled]

Real tradesmen have overhead that the neighborhood fix it guy doesn't have. Liability insurance, permits, continuing education, licenses, payroll, etc. You can't pay for those things with BLT's. I've seen lots of people who paid more for the final repair because it had been jerry rigged so many times instead of being fixed right.

If you put in her hot water heater without a license, or permit, or insurance. If the house blows up tomorrow, what then?

 

[Mike J]

Growing up I watched my Father & Uncle. They did just about anything you could think of (carpentry, roofing, auto repair, plumbing etc.) to help take care of the people in family & at the church. I watched my Father many times stop what he was doing to go help a neighbor. Now I find myself doing stuff for my wifes family. It seems less of that goes on in church than it did when I was a kid. As for my own repairs I tend to figure things out & take care of them. I have a hard time paying someone to do something I can do myself.

 

[Cholo]

Selena and Mike J, there's a reason people didn't need too much $ in the old days. Neighbors were always there to help. What a sad state of affairs nowadays. You're doing the right thing, volshooter!

 

[Xsales]

There is a real catch 22 here

If a true tradesmen comes with License, Insurance etc.. certainly he will need to charge more than the handyman with none of that

In this world today, lawyers will run your rear end up a pole should there be an issue

Let's roll play: water heater is changed out for $37.00 in parts and owner pays $400.00 for the water heater
3 days later, water heater developes some issue that creates an over pressure and the TP valve doesn't function & expoldes causing extensive damage to home - let's say $10,000

Owner will call Ins Co who will investigate & confirm work was done by a handyman
with no license or insurance. Very likely Ins Co. will NOT pay that claim as it was done illegally (usually permit required and done with a License)

Owner has choices
1) pay the damages directly
2) sue the Ins Co.
3) sue the handyman

1) She ain't gonna pay this herself
2) She will not win over the Ins Co.
3) She will likely win over the handyman IF they have any assets to sue for

My point is the World is nuts - Proper trades are a real benefit
Albeit NOT 2-3 x what a reasonable price should be

I will not get into the cost to actually "repair" the garbage work done by handyman in my 31+ yrs as a Licensed Electrical Contractor

I have always said, If the work is done right it does not matter who did the work Licensed, handyman, neighbor kid

Done wrong OR something goes wrong, Oh boy it matters then

OP: I have done a ton of well under cost work for the elderly, wheel chair bound etc.
These people need help & can not afford rates of today on fixed incomes

YOUR heart IS in the right place - keep it up !

 

[volshooter]

I ain't a handyman by any means. I was a professional carpenter, 6 years of electrical training and more plumbing than any one man should have. I am competent in all home building or repairs except HVAC. I sure ain't going to worry about some lawyer. I'm not charging these folks. This is my community/church family and I am using the skills I know to help those that need help. I was taught that is what we are supposed to do and I enjoy helping.
We have a guy in our church that offers free car inspections for seniors. No strings attached. He will check things out and give a list of things that need to be fixed and their importance to safe operation. If they want him to fix things he will. Very good mechanic, honest GOD fearing man and his garage rates are silly low. He ain't any handyman either.

Would I help a neighbor with a problem if I can, yes. I have never been taken advantage of nor would I do it to a home owner. I have seen folks ripped off by pro's for years, most folks don't get bids and have no idea what home repairs should cost. This is a small community and I am part of it. Over charging because of your new work truck, the cost of your license or insurance is still over charging.

Our seniors are a target, we all know that... or should.

 

[contender]

I commend you for helping the seniors or ANYBODY who needs it.

I'm a tradesman. I own my own small business. I do a lot of work for seniors. A fair amount of my work involves minor home repairs to prevent animals from being able to enter, (or re-enter after I remove them,) in elevated places.
I refuse to "grow" my business like so many others, as I get enough work to keep me more than busy. But, I do not want to over-extend myself. I do my best to keep my prices as low as I can. For example, I do not take credit cards. (Big headache & cost overhead.)
I also do small stuff if I'm on a ladder or what-not that may not be related to the actual job. If I can fix it easily, I do so. Often, I do this & never even mention it. If I find issues with a home that are not related to my work, I inform the homeowner. (Say a water leak around a chimney.)

But, I also get insulted when a senior is having a problem and says; "I'm living on a fixed income, can't you do better than that?"
I can not work for free. I can not cut my prices any more than I've already done to keep my expenses as low as they are. I have all the normal expenses any good small business has. I too live on a fixed income. Mine is fixed by how much work I can do.
Or, especially in my area, where there is a LOT of vacation homes. These are the second, third, (or even more) houses these people own. Many are retired, and quite well off. These people poor mouth & want to get work done cheap. Just yesterday, I had a lady call with a 3800 sq. ft house, where the hot tub was getting the plumbing chewed by a critter. She has guests coming this weekend, and wants it fixed immediately. Yet, when I explained my fee structure to her, she started poor mouthing. I politely told her that maybe she needed to call another company. I wish I could see her face when she gets THEIR pricing.

I also have a contractor who will NOT hire anybody as a sub unless they are fully insured & meet certain standards. They cost more than other handyman services, but their work is excellent, and they get plenty of work.

Doing volunteer work to help a person in need is commendable. I do as much of it as I can, when I see a true need. But at the same time, I can not work for free, I'm not retired, I am not wealthy, and it COSTS to run a business.

And, I get calls from people who think that my type of service should be offered free from the local governments. A common phrase I hear; "You mean you don't work for the state? Why won't the state fix my animal problem?"

volshooter, and all others who can do work for folks in need and accept a sandwich as payment, above parts costs, KUDOS! But there are a lot of reasons tradesmen charge for services. It's the AMOUNT some charge that can be questionable.
Speaking for myself, I do as much as I can to keep my costs low. But there are costs involved in running a business.
And, due to these very costs rising, I'm looking forward to a time I can "retire" from it all.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Service work is an expensive proposition. That's why it is good to have some common sense and mechanical ability if you are going to live in a house or anywhere you might need some repairs. I worked as a serviceman for a gas company my entire career and our base labor rate ranged from $7 for a service call in the '60's to $75 a 1/2 hour + parts when I left a few years ago. Overtime was always more. We never made money. It was a service for our customers. Call-out at night or on the weekend or holiday could start at $175 just to show up.

In order to make a profit most private service companies, a/c, plumbing, electrician, etc. would have to charge about double what we did for service. When you need service it pays to shop around or know somebody in the business. If you own it, you should know what to do with it.

 

[Colonialgirl]

CG, I do water well and pump work too.Did you check the air pressure in your tank?If do so pretty quick.The quick cycling will cause the problems you had also.

Thanks Slow hand; Yes we did and boosted it all the way back up to the 38 psi recommended with the new parts. We also have a pressure gauge on the water line to keep an eye on the pressure switch Max 60 PSI when the pump kicks off and 40 PSI when it kicks back on. Our neighbor ALSO recommended that we replace the old water softener which has been in place since it was installed new in 2000 when the house was set in place. He told us that eventually, even with regular back flushing the Resin tanks eventually silt up and cause back pressure in the lines and a lower flow rate in the house. When we get the cash available, that will be the next purchase and installation. We are probably looking at a NEW water heater too given its age of 15 years.

 

[whichwatch]

Have a friend who was out of town and the disposal went bad. His wife called a plumber to come fix or replace it. He replaced it alright, and charged her $1,000 to do so.

I used the same plumber prior to his experience to unclog a utility room drain where the A/C condensation drains into. He was there less than 10 minutes and charged me $200. I paid, then called the owner of the company and after a long discussion pertaining to his pricing policy I did get $100 back, and a coupon for a free service call on the next visit, which promptly went into the trash. I have heard similar horror stories regarding this plumber.

 

[Xsales]

There is no question some professionals/companies charge a fair rate for their service while others charge FAR too much for theirs

Those who charge gouge are always advertising alot as they need to be drumming up NEW business (no one hires them again)

Those who are fair never advertise and have more than enough calls coming in - constantly

I am happy to say I am the 2nd
31+ years and have not put 5 cents into advertising in 30 years - never needed to
(I do get business cards on occasion if you want to call that advertising)

 

[98Redline]

In any business or industry there will be good people/companies and there will be bad people/companies. It seems the going rate has little to do with their reputation.
I have seen plenty of incorrectly performed work and some terribly unsafe situations left by both larger companies and the "handyman that works for cheap"

As a partner in a small company I get to see behind the curtain and figure out what the actual costs are to run our business, maintain our licenses and certifications, keep our insurance up to date, do our marketing, and cover the cost of performing sales calls and writing quotes for jobs we don't win because some handyman lowballed the customer.

Each of my partners and I make a modest income. We will never get rich doing what we do but there have been more than a few folks that try to get themselves rich off of our backs by including us in lawsuits, trying to extort extra work or services from us, and the like. Each and every one of these people directly contributes to the cost that all of our customers have to bear.

Would I like to not have to carry 3 million dollars of insurance...you bet I would. But I am certainly not going to put both my family's and employees' well being at risk by not carrying it.
How about workman's compensation insurance and dealing with all of the government agencies with their hand in my pocket, just because I am a business...not in the least.
Do I want pay 3x as much as a residential customer for phone and internet service, in spite of the fact that we use less bandwidth and less minutes...again, no, but I can't do business without them.
How about the customer who had $20K in services performed but decides not to pay for 120+ days. Do I want to draw on a business line of credit to cover payroll? I will let you guess the answer on that one.

So those that will begrudge me because I need to charge higher rates, well, that is your prerogative, however that is what it actually costs me to run my business. It also might not be a bad exercise to take a moment to consider what the results of your actions might be and how those actions might effect your family. You are one lawsuit away from destroying your family's stability. Sound like fear mongering? It isn't. It is the cold hard truth. Wait and see what your legal defense fees are when one of the people, you thought you were helping, decides that a personal injury attorney is the best route to go. Don't have a corporation set up? Well all of your personal assets are now fair game, including your house, any savings, your kid's college money...everything. Don't have insurance, well, you can spend the next 20 or 30 years paying off the judgement.

As soon as money changes hands, there is a contract, and with a contract comes liability.

Besmirch companies all you want, but equal blame needs to be put on the individuals who immediately go for the legal jugular when things don't go exactly as planned.

 

[Number9]

Heck.. I can't ever a afford fair prices! :mrgreen:
With the cost of materials, I have to do the labor myself unless it's major, like a new roof. I have roofed a couple of houses several years ago that I built.. but not now at my age.
I have full knowledge from foundation to chimney cap!

 

[volshooter]

Not talking about legitimate honest outfits. I was self employed for many years and understand the cost of doing business. No one can work for free. I too have delt with well off folks that want something for nothing. I always stayed away from them. Never over bid the work just said I was booked solid.

 

[whichwatch]

We should also all keep in mind that "fair prices" can be subjective, what seems a fair price to me may be completely unfair to one of you.

 

[volshooter]

Allow me to give one simple example.
Back in the late 80's the going rate for building an outside deck was $2-2.50 a square foot. That covered materials and labor. I had an employee who was contacted by a friend of his to build a deck for a well do to widow. He got the job at $9 a square foot!!! (poor woman had no idea of prices) He bragged for weeks about "hitting a lick".
He was and still is a POS. Oh yea, he is a real carpenter too, just took advantage.

Kinda like folks selling water for $12 a gallon when the east coast gets hit by a bad storm.
They have to live with their selves, at least till judgment day.

There is a huge difference between honest cost of doing business and gouging. Further I will say if you are offended by my OP you might be one of those I speak of. A client's bank account has nothing to do with honest prices. I sleep well at night.....

 

[exavid]

I don't do much neighborhood repairs now but used to for folks I knew couldn't afford to pay a pro to do it. I'll take my chances on being sued if something went wrong. My experience is in electronics, electrical, plumbing and carpentry. If it's something I don't know that could go wrong I didn't do it. Professional shops have to charge a good bit due to the cost of their overhead. Most owners of plumbing and home repair shops I know don't have big money or drive luxury cars. Your really can't blame them for charging what they do. It isn't their fault it goes right to taxes and costs. City tax, inventory tax, state tax, federal taxes, they really don't make all that much.

 

[Xsales]

Allow me to give one simple example.
Back in the late 80's the going rate for building an outside deck was $2-2.50 a square foot. That covered materials and labor. I had an employee who was contacted by a friend of his to build a deck for a well do to widow. He got the job at $9 a square foot!!! (poor woman had no idea of prices) He bragged for weeks about "hitting a lick".
He was and still is a POS. Oh yea, he is a real carpenter too, just took advantage.

Vol: I think we all would agree this type of practice IS unacceptible & against most all people's moral code - unless they don't have one

This is never a good way to do business and it all comes around to bite this type in the rear one way or another

A man wants to be a fair wage for a fair day's work/job but the price gouging/hiking is appaling

 

[volshooter]

Thank you Xsales, you said it better than I could.

 

[Mike J]

I understand what is being posted about businesses having costs. If I were to call a pro out for a service call I would expect to pay $100 just to have someone show up. It makes sense to me when you factor the mans wages, the cost of the vehicle, gas, insurance, etc.

It is annoying though when people are charged for work they don't need that doesn't correct the problem. A few years ago a woman my sister works with that has rental property was having a problem with a condo she owns. There was no air going to upstairs. When I got there I found out the problem was the way the ductwork had originally been installed & the fact someone had walked on the trunk line that runs through the attic. I corrected the issue for her & yes I got paid. I am a sheet metal worker by trade & installing ductwork in commercial buildings is our bread & butter. The sad part is before I got there she had called out a service company & they had sold her a new unit. After they got done hitting her for 2 or 3 grand she still had the same problem.