The "younger generation" of shooters

[Mobuck]

I got a bit bored and went off into the utoober shooting video weed patch. I don't begrudge anyone who wants, likes, or enjoys shooting but some of these "DUDES" who are making these videos are well into what I consider the "why would you do that zone". I watched one guy make the same mistake of ending up at his next "stand"(2 pallets representing cover) with an empty magazine twice in one video.
If the intent is to "prove" something, I don't get it. Stuff like shooting a 308 semi-auto rifle at 50' or using a suppressor while shooting HV ammo into a solid backberm(the reflected noise negates any advantage the suppressor might provide). Playing "battle rattle" at such short ranges has no real training value unless using a sub-caliber(rim fire) clone and reduced size targets.
Even "old dude" Hickok 45 does some of this but at least he can and does reach out a fair piece with his shooting.
The other confusing trend is the "classes" in which "students" in full mall ninja load out blast cardboard with double/triple taps using a rifle at handgun ranges. My thoughts: if you want to do that, join Uncle Sam's service of choice and do that for real.
Maybe I'm just too old fashioned.

 

[wwb]

Yup.

Those of us who grew up hunting or trapping came to regard firearms as a tool. There was no "cool" factor associated with them, which seems to be a problem these days.

Deer hunting? .30-30 lever gun in the woods - bolt action .30-06 across the meadow. .22 rimfire rifle for snowshoe hare (okay, I'll admit I had an autoloader.... a Savage model 7) and a .22 pistol for the trapline. Add a 12 gauge pump for ducks, grouse, and pheasant, and you had all your bases covered.

I do own a few more guns than that now (well, maybe a LOT more), but I'm not a fan of plastic-fantastic stuff, and I'm not at all impressed by people who do foolish things with guns, or who seem to have no understanding of the purpose for each type of gun.

 

[Aqualung]

Gentlemen,

You see firearms as tools. Others see them as sports equipment. Their purposes may be different than yours, but there are purposes, nonetheless...

Just because you may not happen to see their vision doesn't mean they're blind.

Aqualung

 

[Mike J]

About the only youtube firearms folks I like to watch are Paul Harrell & Hickock 45. I have been known to watch some of the instructional type videos from Sig Academy or Jerry Miculek. It all depends on what information I'm looking for right then.

 

[Pat-inCO]

Just because you may not happen to see their vision doesn't mean they're blind.

Just remember that many of "those" people can MUCH more easily end up dead,
for not having learned to use a gun as a tool. Once you learn the tool, if you are
so inclined, then do stupid things. It's your money and potentially your life. :shock:
(a.k.a. HERE, hold my beer and watch this . . . )

 

[Kevin]

Gentlemen,

You see firearms as tools. Others see them as sports equipment. Their purposes may be different than yours, but there are purposes, nonetheless...

Just because you may not happen to see their vision doesn't mean they're blind.

Aqualung

True,
However, anyone can post a video to Youtube. They might not have common sense about gun safety. There are many, many examples of poor firearm handling and mistakes being made on Youtube. If someone is new to the sport and watches these videos of people mis-handling guns, the viewer might not know the difference.

Much like reloading. I reload my own ammunition. In searching out different calibers and powders, I've come across some people posting some wild stuff about how much powder to use for a given bullet. For the record, I don't take their advice, the manuals have the final word. But some people might be trying to save money and not buy the book. If they come across an unsafe load, how will they know?

 

[Don Lovel]

There is a series on Youtube called King of 2 Mile from The NRA Whittington Center. Interesting to me having shot a bunch of long range at Whittington but not 2 mile, the guns are expensive, the ammo is expensive. I have seen some of those guys shooting their 416 and 50 cal Guns. They woke me up one morning at the competitor housing, like crack of dawn they were taking advantage of still wind, sounded like somebody hitting the building with a sledge hammer in my room, they were like 100yds across the road from my room and the wall of the building amplified the report.

 

[wwb]

.......

You see firearms as tools. Others see them as sports equipment. Their purposes may be different than yours, but there are purposes, nonetheless......

No matter the use, whether hunting or sport shooting (I,m a rabid sporting clays shooter), the gun is still a tool. Learn to use it properly.

As has been mentioned, youtube is riddled with videos of people who never had any experience with, or instruction on the proper handling and use of firearms. Watch enough of those, and you'll start to wonder if there shouldn't be an IQ test before one could own a firearm.

 

[Mobuck]

I was taught and maintain that the "deliberate" use of a firearm is a testament to physical and mental control of oneself. I've held some fairly exotic arms in the past and used them as they were designed but some of the "stuff" I've seen on videos is just "out there".
One of my pet peeves is the close range shooting of steel plates. A few years back, I caught a rebounding 9mm bullet on my leg and was all sorts of happy that it was my leg rather than my face or throat.

 

[contender]

I rarely watch anything on youboob.
Mostly, when someone here posts something or the odd rare thing Miss Penny finds for my interests.
And from what little I've seen,, & all I've heard,, it's a place where anybody can post just about anything. Right or wrong, good or bad, it doesn't matter.

That said,, I also shoot competition. I know a lot of the top shooters post stuff. (Jerry is mentioned above.) And there is a variety of competition out there,, that has been created to get people into shooting,, as well as test their skills. As noted above,, it's become a sport.
Multi-gun, 3-Gun, SASS, USPSA, IDPA, GSSF, Steel Challenge etc are all "games" where people can "play" with firearms.
Youboob,, well, it lacks the discipline, the safety regulations, and from all accounts, in some cases, the REAL knowledge of how to shoot, as compared to these games.

But,, let's look at it a little differently.

What if nobody could own guns? What if the "younger generation" didn't have an outlet to enjoy firearms? At least some of the younger generation is out shooting. And if they feel it's "fun" to do they will excite others to engage in shooting as well.
Yes,, us old timers who grew up in a different era, and under different attitudes, may see it as wrong in some cases. But who among us didn't do stupid, or silly or even unsafe things as a youngster? (Not just with firearms?) Can it backfire? YES! Stupid stuff can cause accidents, and even death. And sometimes that could lead to more anti-gun sentiment, or regulations.

But,, look at it with a bit of wisdom,,, and accept that the "younger generation" likes different stuff.
They like "black & plastic." They like "tacticool." They like instant gratification. They like trying to be famous, by being on any social media. It's their generation, and they aren't like us,, just as most of us were not like our elders.

What we CAN do is try hard to politely educate any & all of these folks when we actually encounter them. See someone at a range,, blasting away,,, at a target so close you could hit it with a pebble,, and their pattern is not in any way a grouping? Offer instruction.
See someone trying to shoot a handgun, and their technique is lacking,, and their target proves, it,,, Offer polite instruction.
See someone trying to shoot a steel target at a distance that is unsafe, or at the wrong angle? Point out the potential dangers,, and politely ask them to increase the distance for safety.

We can't fix youboob,, but we can educate the younger generation. And remember,, they are the future gun owners AND voters. We need them.

 

[smoke-eater]

Gotta keep the man-bun generation happy. :roll:

 

[Aqualung]

Sorry Gentlemen, but you've shifted the focus of the thread and make it seem like I'm condoning unsafe behaviors with firearms. That is definitely not the case. There's no excuse for bad handling and unsafe behaviors. Firearm users should always be trained in their use.

I also wholeheartedly agree that there are a lot of bad behaviors and bad firearm use shown on YouTube. I avoid a lot of them because what many see as funny, I find really disturbing (i.e. idiots giving unfamiliar shooters guns way out of their league are most common and most disturbing to me).

The messages to which I was responding were the "there's no point in doing xxx...", "if you're going to do yyy, then join the military...", "I've no use for anything not made of blued steel and wood...", "there's no need for anything besides a hunting shotgun, a deer rifle and a .22 for plinking or small game..." type comments. I grew up in that environment and even believed it for many years...

However, over time (and moving out of the Communist State of NJ) I've gained appreciation for things I never had before (the AR15 platform, the use of polymer to improve ergonomics, firearm modularity) and for activities that I'd never known (sporting clays, long-range shooting, two-gun & three-gun competition [though there's no way I'd be able to do that]). I credit the internet and specifically YouTube for not only that exposure, but to the vast learning I'm experiencing. I'm learning a huge amount more at 50 because of the internet and YouTube than I ever could have at 20. But like anything else and any other type of learning and experience, it requires both an open mind and a filter...the open mind to accept the fact that there is more to learn besides my own prejudgements and an unbiased filter to analyze what I'm seeing.

Respectfully,

Aqualung

 

[Highhawk1948]

Yep, all my Guns were/are working Guns.

 

[powder smoke]

Gentlemen,

You see firearms as tools. Others see them as sports equipment. Their purposes may be different than yours, but there are purposes, nonetheless...

Just because you may not happen to see their vision doesn't mean they're blind.

Aqualung

Agree 100% Every generation is different I'm different than my old man!
I'm very surprised of some of the attitudes here! ps

 

[Thumbcocker]

Prior to WWI the U.S. was leverguns and revolvers. Millions of doughboys got to appreciate bolt actions and semi auto pistols. During WWII millions of GI's got to shoot self loading rifles. For the past 50+ years the military has fielded AR/M16 rifles and 9mm pistols. Lots of people got their first exposure to firearms in the military. Millions more were influenced by fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, and older people they looked up to who had served in the military as to what a "real" weapon was.

 

[bobski]

blame tv for it.
blame the gun industry for it.
see... they want them to burn up ammo and look cool with whatever fad is 'in' at the time.
and be like the stars.
right now...tacticool is in.
before..silencers were in.
and before that, cowboy guns were in.
and so on....

 

[375hh1973]

Depends on my mood. Sometimes I go to the range and work on long range precision. Sometimes I go to blast and make noise. Regardless, its always done SAFELY.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Moving on from the idea of "guns are tools" there's also the ages old tradition that our weapons can be art work, even if all it is might be a feather tied to a spear or a couple of stripes painted on a crude bow. We still see that in the shotgun world, at least among competitive clay target shooters in their different disciplines. The metal has a wide range of engraving, from simple rolled on designs to unbelievably elegant hand work done by real masters of the craft, and people will look high and low to get just the "right" piece of wood to go with the rest of the gun. Guys like Roy Weatherby brought a lot of that to rifles in the post-war years, too, and there are still custom builders of most "traditional" firearms who went to that school.

In contrast, most of what I see with the black plastic crowd is they do understand their guns as tools, in general not too expensive and made to be tossed out in a short while, but haven't the tiniest clue of the artistry of guns I guess we'd call "of the past" today. As artwork, that black plastic stuff barely rates a spot on the refrigerator door next to some preschooler's pride and joy. The black plastic crowd also seems to like ugly cars, motorcycles and bicycles--all of which have been works of art at one time but today the more they look like the aftermath of an explosion in the NASCAR sponsors' stickers office the better--and to tell many of them that TVs, and before them the family radio, used to be pieces of nice wooden furniture would draw a blank look that can only be matched when you give one of them a dollar, two quarters and two pennies for a bill of $1.47 and watch them try to figure out how that gives you a nickel back (yeah, I'm one of THOSE guys. Blame it on Flip Wilson and Geraldine: "The devil made me do it!") The world has changed, and will continue to do so.

Whether that change is for the better or worse is just one person's opinion up against another's. You can mark me down as not fond of a lot of it...

Rick C

 

[GunnyGene]

Hi,

Moving on from the idea of "guns are tools" there's also the ages old tradition that our weapons can be art work, even if all it is might be a feather tied to a spear or a couple of stripes painted on a crude bow. We still see that in the shotgun world, at least among competitive clay target shooters in their different disciplines. The metal has a wide range of engraving, from simple rolled on designs to unbelievably elegant hand work done by real masters of the craft, and people will look high and low to get just the "right" piece of wood to go with the rest of the gun. Guys like Roy Weatherby brought a lot of that to rifles in the post-war years, too, and there are still custom builders of most "traditional" firearms who went to that school.

In contrast, most of what I see with the black plastic crowd is they do understand their guns as tools, in general not too expensive and made to be tossed out in a short while, but haven't the tiniest clue of the artistry of guns I guess we'd call "of the past" today. As artwork, that black plastic stuff barely rates a spot on the refrigerator door next to some preschooler's pride and joy. The black plastic crowd also seems to like ugly cars, motorcycles and bicycles--all of which have been works of art at one time but today the more they look like the aftermath of an explosion in the NASCAR sponsors' stickers office the better--and to tell many of them that TVs, and before them the family radio, used to be pieces of nice wooden furniture would draw a blank look that can only be matched when you give one of them a dollar, two quarters and two pennies for a bill of $1.47 and watch them try to figure out how that gives you a nickel back (yeah, I'm one of THOSE guys. Blame it on Flip Wilson and Geraldine: "The devil made me do it!") The world has changed, and will continue to do so.

Whether that change is for the better or worse is just one person's opinion up against another's. You can mark me down as not fond of a lot of it...

Rick C

That's almost poetic, Rick. :mrgreen:

 

[Mega Twin]

The most that irritate me,are the ones who show a lady or small person shooting
a 500 S&W for the first time and nearly getting brained with the gun.
Ain't funny.

 

[Rancher Will]

I too am of the "old school". I do enjoy hearing and reading about all the new fangled gadgets though. Yes, for me, guns are a tool, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[protoolman]

I suppose the new generation fooling around with 6.5 creedmores is not too different from guys a ways back fooling with the 220 swift or the 250-3000. I kinda like the sub gun look of the takedown pc carbine with the round perforated forend too. That said my favorites are still my cowboy guns. I watch gun blast and Hickock on YouTube but not much else.

 

[Heliman]

I remember as a youngster going to gun shows with my Dad. I remember booth after booth of old Winchester rifles, Colt SA revolvers, and lot's military rifle and pistol displays from the civil war to the Korean conflict. This to me was traditional firearms to lust after.
I read my Dad's American Rifleman and Gun Digest magazines cover to cover. So, I was always up to date on the latest firearm offerings from many manufacturers. I guess I got pretty much locked in to what was new back then. What do I have for gun "tools" nowadays? Hi-cap mag plastic semi-auto pistols and an AR-15. What can I say? I have practical "tools" and fun to shoot and admire pieces of art that appeal to me......
It is a new generation of youngsters who have different ideas on what is appealing. The main thing is that they are still enthusiastic about firearms. They just need to be trained in the proper handling and safe use of their plastic firearms.