PaulChristenson
Bearcat
clayflingythingy said:
WHY?
The Red Label is back! Picture inside.
- Thread starter deerman3
- Start date
WHY?
clayflingythingy
Single-Sixer
PaulChristenson said:
RL's are muzzle heavy pigs even with the barrel side spacers removed and thrown into the recycle bin. After spending a number of years on the sporting clays course I tried a number of different guns. A sporting shotgun should SWING. A RL does not. And over time I came to consider a good semi as better than an U/O for my shooting.
I suspect the reintro RL will still be a muzzle heavy pig.
jkh004
Bearcat
So you have 3 for sale?
If he doesn't I've got a bunch of NIB originals , all gauges
ArmedinAZ
Buckeye
golferboy426 said:
Did they just gain value or lose it with the re-intro?
FergusonTO35
Hunter
A 20 gauge Gold Label would be just lovely.
PaulChristenson
Bearcat
clayflingythingy said:
So what are you asking for your 12 gauge RL?
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Hi,
This question's probably for Jeff Q:
The original RL developed a reputation on our target fields as being a bit "club like." I wouldn't go so far as that "muzzle heavy pig" comment, though, especially in the smaller gauges. They weren't "bad" so much as there was just something missing in the feel. Perhaps "not very lively" would describe it?
How does the new one handle in comparison?
Rick C
This question's probably for Jeff Q:
The original RL developed a reputation on our target fields as being a bit "club like." I wouldn't go so far as that "muzzle heavy pig" comment, though, especially in the smaller gauges. They weren't "bad" so much as there was just something missing in the feel. Perhaps "not very lively" would describe it?
How does the new one handle in comparison?
Rick C
Jeff Quinn
Single-Sixer
Rick Courtright said:
I have the 26 inch here, and it balances very well for me. Of course, shotgun fit and feel is a subjective matter, but it feels as if Ruger has thinned the barrels a bit, along with getting rid of the side ribs. The matter of balance depends upon your chosen target game or your quarry. A duck hunter or trap shooter usually prefers a heavier muzzle than does a bobwhite hunter or skeet shooter. Try to handle one, and see how well it fits your body and your needs.
Jeff
kentdep
Single-Sixer
If I hold it sideways I wonder if they would let me use it for Cowboy Action Shooting matches :?: :D
Jay
Jay
clayflingythingy said:
There's nothing so subjective in the world than shotgun fit and I don't think they should be bought by anyone with any seriousness unless they are personally shouldered and compared. We aren't talking rifles/handguns. For what the above is worth, my grandad used to be a high 90's sporting clays shooter (including subgauge classes) and the red label was his favorite out of many, many he tried.
The most legitimate complaint I've heard against red labels is that they used to be in the same price range as berretas/brownings and yet they had more reported problems, possibly exaggerated by berreta snobs. If this gun's as good as the old one at the new price point, this argument may be obsolete.
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kentdep said:
I believe that is the way they shoot skeet "in the hood". For some reason they like to hold their guns sideways. :D
clayflingythingy
Single-Sixer
Use of the RL by serious sporting clays shooters was very, very rare.
The RL had a reputation of having quality problems with such issues as doubling, ejectors, bad triggers, etc. Whether these were exaggerated we have no way of knowing but the perception that the RL was iffy quality wise certainly existed.
The excess muzzle weight was almost universally condemned.
The only RL that really was looked upon favorably was the 28 gage.
If the new RL has done away with the excess muzzle weight and the shotgun forums don't immediately see problems reported it might find favor with many.
Myself, I'll take an semi.
The RL had a reputation of having quality problems with such issues as doubling, ejectors, bad triggers, etc. Whether these were exaggerated we have no way of knowing but the perception that the RL was iffy quality wise certainly existed.
The excess muzzle weight was almost universally condemned.
The only RL that really was looked upon favorably was the 28 gage.
If the new RL has done away with the excess muzzle weight and the shotgun forums don't immediately see problems reported it might find favor with many.
Myself, I'll take an semi.
Mike Armstrong
Hunter
NEVER buy a shotgun for shooting flying targets until you have at least shouldered it and swung it around quite a bit. If it "feels funny," don't buy it, at least until you have had a chance to shoot one and see if you can hit with it.
If you're not familiar with shotguns, get somebody who really KNOWS shotguns and shotgun shooting to advise you; it is certainly worth taking a class if you can't find a friend to help. The cost of the class would be NOTHING compared to buying the wrong gun and then having to re-sell and buy another. Most skeet and trap clubs have classes and members who can do some rough-and-ready gun fitting and give you advise as to where to start.
You have to remember that the RL is a RUGER: it's over-engineered and relatively heavy. And durable enough for a hunter's lifetime or maybe two lifetimes.
Pounding thousands or rounds of trap loads thru any shotgun will sooner or later require some repair, and that's where most of the complaints seem to come from. Rugers just aren't Perazzis or Kreighoffs. But wouldn't any reasonable person know that, just by looking at the respective price tags????
I still wish Ruger would expend some of their considerable alloy-casting expertise and come up with an alloy-framed (I mean aluminum alloy) 20 guage RL. And leave the chambers at 2 3/4" like Beretta did with their ultra-light O/Us.
Until then, I'll just stick with my tiny 28! And, yeah, it DO kill quail, at least the CA variety. And chukars. That's all I've tried it on so far, 'cause that's all we have in the places I hunt.
If you're not familiar with shotguns, get somebody who really KNOWS shotguns and shotgun shooting to advise you; it is certainly worth taking a class if you can't find a friend to help. The cost of the class would be NOTHING compared to buying the wrong gun and then having to re-sell and buy another. Most skeet and trap clubs have classes and members who can do some rough-and-ready gun fitting and give you advise as to where to start.
You have to remember that the RL is a RUGER: it's over-engineered and relatively heavy. And durable enough for a hunter's lifetime or maybe two lifetimes.
Pounding thousands or rounds of trap loads thru any shotgun will sooner or later require some repair, and that's where most of the complaints seem to come from. Rugers just aren't Perazzis or Kreighoffs. But wouldn't any reasonable person know that, just by looking at the respective price tags????
I still wish Ruger would expend some of their considerable alloy-casting expertise and come up with an alloy-framed (I mean aluminum alloy) 20 guage RL. And leave the chambers at 2 3/4" like Beretta did with their ultra-light O/Us.
Until then, I'll just stick with my tiny 28! And, yeah, it DO kill quail, at least the CA variety. And chukars. That's all I've tried it on so far, 'cause that's all we have in the places I hunt.
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When I bought mine, I did not realize that it was an entry level gun. I just knew I wanted an O/U and the RedLabel was the only American made one available. It took two full weeks pay with overtime to buy it, so mine is definitely a working mans gun.
I have used it for everything from skeet and trap, to birds rabbits and deer. When I use it for deer, I put a slug in the top barrel, and double O in the bottom.
When I pulled it out at the skeet range, nobody was impressed, I thought it was the nicest gun there. When they saw I could handle it and was a decent shot with it, they were more impressed.
So class wars aside, it is the right gun for me, and I'm glad Ruger is bringing it back. I hope they make a ton of money on them.
Ed
I have used it for everything from skeet and trap, to birds rabbits and deer. When I use it for deer, I put a slug in the top barrel, and double O in the bottom.
When I pulled it out at the skeet range, nobody was impressed, I thought it was the nicest gun there. When they saw I could handle it and was a decent shot with it, they were more impressed.
So class wars aside, it is the right gun for me, and I'm glad Ruger is bringing it back. I hope they make a ton of money on them.
Ed
clayflingythingy
Single-Sixer
LGS had new 28" RL for $1090 cash this A.M.
Altho guns always handle better in the gun shop (just like triggers are always lighter in the gun shop), it really did feel more lively and less muzzle heavy than the old RL. Execution of wood, finish, etc. fell into the OK category typical of Ruger products.
It remains to be seen if the perception of poor quality out of the box that plagued the old RL can be overcome.
Myself, I have come to prefer a good semi, but would not try to persuade someone out of purchasing a RL if they wanted one.
Altho guns always handle better in the gun shop (just like triggers are always lighter in the gun shop), it really did feel more lively and less muzzle heavy than the old RL. Execution of wood, finish, etc. fell into the OK category typical of Ruger products.
It remains to be seen if the perception of poor quality out of the box that plagued the old RL can be overcome.
Myself, I have come to prefer a good semi, but would not try to persuade someone out of purchasing a RL if they wanted one.
clayflingythingy said:
I've sold well over 100 new old style red labels and never had one be defective nor would any be considered poor quality. On some the wood to metal fit was not perfect but for what you pay it was a deal IMO. They were a gun that you could 100000 rounds thru with no worry. Even if something broke Ruger would fix it for free usually. You'd NEVER get that kind of consideration from any of the B manufacturers
golferboy426 said:
Back when I shot IDPA I was able to observe a lot of handgun malfunctions mostly due to shoddily reloaded ammo and so was able to compare spectator reactions to when a 1911 malfunctioned and when a Glock malfunctioned:
Whenever a 1911 malfunctioned, for whatever reason, people snickered and said, "Well, should have bought a Glock!"
Whenever a Glock malfunctioned, for whatever reason, people marveled at how rapidly the shooter cleared the malfunction and, a couple minutes later, would still be bragging about how reliable their Glocks were.
People see what they want to see, and shooters of shotguns from 'b-companies,' well, I've seen people have problems with shotguns from b-companies. Of course, you'll never hear it after it happens but if any other gun malfunctions, time to report it on all the forums.
Mike Armstrong said:
Can you recommend a 28 (aside from ammunition price) over a 20 for things such as rabbit and squirrel? I do not have a shotgun. I hope they reintroduce them in the smaller gauges. You never did see the Red Label new in stores in my area.
Danny
clayflingythingy
Single-Sixer
golferboy426 said:
That is all well and good, but the truth is the perception among the serious clay target shooters was that the RL was subpar quality wise from a functioning standpoint. Doubling, ejector problems, trigger problems were supposed to haunt the RL.
BTW....FYI....my special ordered NIB 20 gage 50th anniversary gun had numerous defects and had to immediately make a trip back to the Ruger factory.
I have inspected only 2 Red Labels concerning "doubling". Both never really doubled. It was because the shooter doubled the trigger. Most complaints were IMO because the shooter was not used to mechanical versus inertia triggers.
That said perception becomes reality. The internet can spead falsehhoods especially when the B lovers want to disparage an American made gun that costs less.
Remember, the Red Label was never meant to be a serious clays guns, Yet I like my Red Label clays gun more than I liked my K 80. I felt that was "clubby".
IMO the biggest negative was heat waves that seemed more pronounced than on my Kreighoff. But they were the same or similar to my Superposed, my SKB and my Beretta BL-5
That said perception becomes reality. The internet can spead falsehhoods especially when the B lovers want to disparage an American made gun that costs less.
Remember, the Red Label was never meant to be a serious clays guns, Yet I like my Red Label clays gun more than I liked my K 80. I felt that was "clubby".
IMO the biggest negative was heat waves that seemed more pronounced than on my Kreighoff. But they were the same or similar to my Superposed, my SKB and my Beretta BL-5
clayflingythingy
Single-Sixer
golferboy426 said:
There may be some truth to that. But I've returned more Ruger's to the factory for service (the above mentioned RL and several single actions) than any other brand. These were guns made back when someone named Ruger was at the helm. MY perception is that Ruger's had more out of the box problems than other makes.
And even if the RL "problems" were multiplied by the net to more than they really were, the fact remains the RL (except the 28) was a muzzle heavy pig.
The one I handled yestrerday seemed more lively that the older RL. But guns handle better in the gun shop than on the sporting clays range. :D
I do hope Ruger hits a home run with the new RL. I always liked the style of the gun as opposed to the B's.
For my use tho, I have decided a semi makes a superior clays gun.
Mike Armstrong
Hunter
Danny, IMO a 28 is as good as a 20 for the uses you mention. Where a 20 becomes more practical is if you contemplate shooting bigger stuff as well: wild pheasants, especially late in the season, and ducks or turkeys. The 20 makes more sense for those bigger targets and/or longer ranges.
You also have to balance off three other factors: 1) the 20 is considerably heavier and bulkier than the 28, 2) it is easier to find a wide variety of shells for the 20, and, as you say, they are usually cheaper, 3) a 20 makes better sense if you are keeping a shotgun for self defense (no slugs or buckshot for a 28 currently).
You also have to balance off three other factors: 1) the 20 is considerably heavier and bulkier than the 28, 2) it is easier to find a wide variety of shells for the 20, and, as you say, they are usually cheaper, 3) a 20 makes better sense if you are keeping a shotgun for self defense (no slugs or buckshot for a 28 currently).
Mike Armstrong said:
Mike,
Thanks for your thoughts. I was tending to go in the direction of 28. My needs are on the smaller end of what you mention.
I am hoping that Ruger brings the Red Label back in the smaller gauges.
Back when the Red Label was a new in stock item, as I mention, you almost never saw them for sale here. This is odd, because Ohio, where I live is pretty much a shotgun heavy state because deer is hunted with slugs and there are typically no shortages even when it comes to upland shotguns. I wonder if the rumor of quality control issues limited their stocking levels here. Is this typically what was seen in other parts of the country?
Danny
Mike Armstrong said:
+1 on this as shooting bunnies with a 28 is what I grew up doing. 28's overkill if anything as bunnies and squirrels are probably the two things a .410 is good for. You'll still shoot up the meat with a 28 if you aren't careful. It's amazing how many 7 1/2s are in 3/4 oz.
Plus as skeet shooters prove with their scores all the time, anything under 30 yds and involving under 6 shot can be done just as well with the 28 ga. Since you're probably jump or hound shooting rabbits in thick cover, can't see why it wouldn't work.
Mike Armstrong
Hunter
When I'm ONLY hunting bunnies and/or squirrels with a .410 (don't use my 28 mainly for that), I load with 4s because just one 4 will kill a cottontail and fewer end up in the meat than smaller shot. And they are much easier to find and remove than smaller shot.
When mainly I'm bird hunting and shooting bunnies only when I just happen to jump one, I use the 28 and 7 1/2s; much better pattern for flyin' critters!
I agree that for most of us a .410 is a bunny and squirrel killer and that's about all it's good for, except snakes if you shoot those (I mostly don't, unless they're in a building or around it). But I hunt with a guy that uses a couple of custom .410 doubles for just about everything except wild South Dakota pheasants, and he just doesn't miss--quail, chukars, or stocked pheasants. Kills 'em deader than I do with even a 12.
He shoots a LOT of clays with the .410, and makes custom handloads for it and machines custom chokes in his doubles. Specialized, for sure--more than most of us could afford.
When mainly I'm bird hunting and shooting bunnies only when I just happen to jump one, I use the 28 and 7 1/2s; much better pattern for flyin' critters!
I agree that for most of us a .410 is a bunny and squirrel killer and that's about all it's good for, except snakes if you shoot those (I mostly don't, unless they're in a building or around it). But I hunt with a guy that uses a couple of custom .410 doubles for just about everything except wild South Dakota pheasants, and he just doesn't miss--quail, chukars, or stocked pheasants. Kills 'em deader than I do with even a 12.
He shoots a LOT of clays with the .410, and makes custom handloads for it and machines custom chokes in his doubles. Specialized, for sure--more than most of us could afford.
falrifles
Bearcat
I bought a new 20 ga. Red Label a few years ago right before it was discontinued. I had some mechanical issues right off the bat, but Ruger handled them promptly. Let me clarify this.....it was just three weeks before the Iowa pheasant opener and they fixed it within a week back and forth. I had no time to really get used to the gun; but on opening day I dropped two pheasants on the first shot, on two occasions. I love the gun.
My only issue is the fact that I have substantially more money invested in this gun than what a new one costs. How can you make the same gun for $500-$600 less than the original and where does that leave me when I decide to sell this gun? Will I loose value because someone can buy a new one for much less than I will need to ask for my used gun to get a fair price out of it?
I may buy the 12 ga version with the 26" barrels. But I wish now that I would have waited to buy one.
Bill
My only issue is the fact that I have substantially more money invested in this gun than what a new one costs. How can you make the same gun for $500-$600 less than the original and where does that leave me when I decide to sell this gun? Will I loose value because someone can buy a new one for much less than I will need to ask for my used gun to get a fair price out of it?
I may buy the 12 ga version with the 26" barrels. But I wish now that I would have waited to buy one.
Bill
RJ556
Buckeye
If I am not wrong, CNC is how the older ones were made. I can't imagine that the older ones were machined by manual set up. They would have cost much more that they sold for even then. Maybe the barrel sets are out-sourced much less expensively. There has got to be a big difference in the build someplace. It's unheard of for a gun company to reintroduce a model years after it was discontinued, to sell for a lesser price, especially after our recent inflated economy. Well, unless Ruger hired all new employees in the shotgun department to work for minimum wage! There's been an awefully lot of that going on in other industries.
