CHEVYINLINE6
Blackhawk
When you say heavy or large frame, are you talking about a revolver or Mike V. ?
The Dying 44?
- Thread starter peachhead
- Start date
I DO LOVE my 44's though and shoot them regularly with full house 44 mags. Is there any other way? 240 grain bullets and Blue Dot.
A Smith and two Rugers and I like my 10mm's to. Colt, Glock, FN. Shoot all three of those and use the same loads in all of those, so far.
A Smith and two Rugers and I like my 10mm's to. Colt, Glock, FN. Shoot all three of those and use the same loads in all of those, so far.
carbonfibrebob
Redhawk
For me it's 240 grain and W296
Cofaler
Blackhawk
I agree with contender and peachhead. Venturino is a gunwriter, part of his job is getting us to talk about his articles, which sell magazines, as he obviously has here. I've like some of his stuff over the years, and not liked some of it, just like most of the other gunwriters.
I think he does have a point though. Bullet technology has made smaller bullets more effective, and you can carry a lot more of them in a wonder nine which are arguably adequate for defense against two legged predators, which are the reason most people carry. We don't hunt like we used to, and more that a few leave their big bore revolvers at home in favor of a Glock 20 or some other 10mm for backup in the woods because they're generally lighter, carry more rounds on board without worrying about speedloaders, etc, and in most cases are cheaper to buy and shoot than a BBR. They also look and run just like their G19 that they carry in town.
I used to range officer at a large punlic shooting range outside Denver. Guys woud show up with a Bass Pro Shop bag full of BBR and ammo and no clue. They would shoot it once, maybe twice, then try and get their buddy to shoot it, who would shoot it once, then they would pack up. Especially the light weight guns. I talked to a guy who just shot his brand new Mountain Light he bought for an upcoming Alaska hunt. He put two rounds through it, set it on the bench and just stared at it with his hands shaking, probably wondering what he was going to tell his wife about dropping all that money on a gun he will likely never shoot again. He told me he bought 6 boxes of .44 Mag and 1 box of .44 Special. All I could tell him was, 'well, at least if you end up having to use it for what it was intended for, you probably won't notice the recoil.'
A lot of people live in cities who's only place to shoot is an indoor range. Ever had someone touch off a .44 mag or similar next to you in an indoor range? I'll probably get flamed for saying this, and maybe it's a gross generalization, but I don't think the human animal is as tough as we used to be. The way people lived 200 or even 100 years ago would probably kill a good portion of us today, at least until we relearned to adapt. Walk around any city in America (which is where most of us live) and observe the 20-30 somethings running around...
Look at the muscle car era of the 60's and very early 70's. Are there cars built today that can outperform and are more 'efficient' than a big block muscle car from MoPar, Ford, or GM? Yes. Does it matter to a lot of us? Not even a little bit...
I think he does have a point though. Bullet technology has made smaller bullets more effective, and you can carry a lot more of them in a wonder nine which are arguably adequate for defense against two legged predators, which are the reason most people carry. We don't hunt like we used to, and more that a few leave their big bore revolvers at home in favor of a Glock 20 or some other 10mm for backup in the woods because they're generally lighter, carry more rounds on board without worrying about speedloaders, etc, and in most cases are cheaper to buy and shoot than a BBR. They also look and run just like their G19 that they carry in town.
I used to range officer at a large punlic shooting range outside Denver. Guys woud show up with a Bass Pro Shop bag full of BBR and ammo and no clue. They would shoot it once, maybe twice, then try and get their buddy to shoot it, who would shoot it once, then they would pack up. Especially the light weight guns. I talked to a guy who just shot his brand new Mountain Light he bought for an upcoming Alaska hunt. He put two rounds through it, set it on the bench and just stared at it with his hands shaking, probably wondering what he was going to tell his wife about dropping all that money on a gun he will likely never shoot again. He told me he bought 6 boxes of .44 Mag and 1 box of .44 Special. All I could tell him was, 'well, at least if you end up having to use it for what it was intended for, you probably won't notice the recoil.'
A lot of people live in cities who's only place to shoot is an indoor range. Ever had someone touch off a .44 mag or similar next to you in an indoor range? I'll probably get flamed for saying this, and maybe it's a gross generalization, but I don't think the human animal is as tough as we used to be. The way people lived 200 or even 100 years ago would probably kill a good portion of us today, at least until we relearned to adapt. Walk around any city in America (which is where most of us live) and observe the 20-30 somethings running around...
Look at the muscle car era of the 60's and very early 70's. Are there cars built today that can outperform and are more 'efficient' than a big block muscle car from MoPar, Ford, or GM? Yes. Does it matter to a lot of us? Not even a little bit...
buckeyeshooter
Blackhawk
Not around my ranch. I never leave the house without one and there are 10 more in the safe with a lever action too.
contender
Ruger Guru
"I DO LOVE my 44's though and shoot them regularly with full house 44 mags. Is there any other way?"
Yes,, there is always the very good possibility the most accurate load is NOT "full house" loads. Accuracy trumps power.
Cofaler makes some good points. While in some places,, we are seeing a reduction in the numbers of hunters,, the numbers of handgun hunters seems to be on the rise. And yes,, many people have bought a larger than .9mm handgun, taken it to a range, WITHOUT ANY INSTRUCTION, and discovered they do not like the recoil.
But that's nothing new. In the 1970's when "Dirty Harry" proclaimed the .44 magnum "the most powerful handgun in the world, and can blow your head clean off",, S&W couldn't keep up with the demand. Prices skyrocketed. But it wasn't too long before you'd be able to buy a "gently used S&W Model 29 with an accompanying box of ammo with maybe 6 rounds missing.
And the younger crowd of shooters who've grown up watching movies or playing video games with the attitude of "spray & pray" mentality,, feeling a .9mm can be the end all, be all, fail to get good instruction on accuracy & how to handle recoil. Yes,, many seem to be not a "tough" as they used to be.
Just yesterday I was on the phone with a senior person at USPSA HQ about potential classifiers they are having clubs test. They had a clerical error on the publication of one of them,, where the required distance was, GASP,,, 30 yards! He said almost NO clubs were shooting that one. Distances beyond 30-40 ft are considered "long range" by many. Mention shooting a handgun at 100 yds & most look at you like you are an alien.
.9mm has it's place. And yes,, bullet technology has improved. And many feel the only thing to fear are the 2-legged critters. But there are plenty of cases where them varmints have been hit more than once with a .9mm and fail to immediately go down. Even to the point of hurting others prior to finally collapsing.
And many have forgotten the lessons learned over 100 years ago about the .38 spl not stopping drug assisted soldiers, creating the demand for a gun/caliber to STOP them. We ended up with the 1911 in .45 acp.
I still chuckle at the window sticker I saw; "A .45 acp is a .9mm for grown-ups!"
The .44 mag & other big bore handguns have had, do have, and will have a solid place in our world LONG after windbags claim it "dead."
Yes,, there is always the very good possibility the most accurate load is NOT "full house" loads. Accuracy trumps power.
Cofaler makes some good points. While in some places,, we are seeing a reduction in the numbers of hunters,, the numbers of handgun hunters seems to be on the rise. And yes,, many people have bought a larger than .9mm handgun, taken it to a range, WITHOUT ANY INSTRUCTION, and discovered they do not like the recoil.
But that's nothing new. In the 1970's when "Dirty Harry" proclaimed the .44 magnum "the most powerful handgun in the world, and can blow your head clean off",, S&W couldn't keep up with the demand. Prices skyrocketed. But it wasn't too long before you'd be able to buy a "gently used S&W Model 29 with an accompanying box of ammo with maybe 6 rounds missing.
And the younger crowd of shooters who've grown up watching movies or playing video games with the attitude of "spray & pray" mentality,, feeling a .9mm can be the end all, be all, fail to get good instruction on accuracy & how to handle recoil. Yes,, many seem to be not a "tough" as they used to be.
Just yesterday I was on the phone with a senior person at USPSA HQ about potential classifiers they are having clubs test. They had a clerical error on the publication of one of them,, where the required distance was, GASP,,, 30 yards! He said almost NO clubs were shooting that one. Distances beyond 30-40 ft are considered "long range" by many. Mention shooting a handgun at 100 yds & most look at you like you are an alien.
.9mm has it's place. And yes,, bullet technology has improved. And many feel the only thing to fear are the 2-legged critters. But there are plenty of cases where them varmints have been hit more than once with a .9mm and fail to immediately go down. Even to the point of hurting others prior to finally collapsing.
And many have forgotten the lessons learned over 100 years ago about the .38 spl not stopping drug assisted soldiers, creating the demand for a gun/caliber to STOP them. We ended up with the 1911 in .45 acp.
I still chuckle at the window sticker I saw; "A .45 acp is a .9mm for grown-ups!"
The .44 mag & other big bore handguns have had, do have, and will have a solid place in our world LONG after windbags claim it "dead."
freakindawgen
Blackhawk
I haven't heard anyone shooting lighter 44 bullets. I think Remington had a 180g hot load that I really liked.
harley08
Blackhawk
I like the 44 Magnum.
I use it in my Ruger 44 Magnum Carbines.
I shoot .45 LC / 45ACP in my Ruger revolver.
Rocko Rizzo
I use it in my Ruger 44 Magnum Carbines.
I shoot .45 LC / 45ACP in my Ruger revolver.
Rocko Rizzo
What he fails to realize is not every handgunners owns 10+ guns. Nor does every handgunner reload. 44 magnum ammo is commonly found at the local sporting goods, hardware, or Walbox store. It is a great choice for the man that feels he needs or wants something with more oomph than the 357 for heavier business. It is also a great practical gateway gun for the person that thinks he may want to try handgun hunting or big bores in general.
Even though I have much nicer rifles, my cva 44 magnum is my favorite deer rifle. With handguns I choose the 44 special more times than not. Followed by 45 colt and 41 magnum. You can bet I have a couple of 44 magnum Ruger Blackhawks as well and they aren’t going anywhere anytime soon!
Even though I have much nicer rifles, my cva 44 magnum is my favorite deer rifle. With handguns I choose the 44 special more times than not. Followed by 45 colt and 41 magnum. You can bet I have a couple of 44 magnum Ruger Blackhawks as well and they aren’t going anywhere anytime soon!
330gr and Lil Gun
If I do another Mad Science project it'll be to push lightweight Lehigh's towards 3,000fps. But then anything I can do with a 44 even Super Mag is easily eclipsed by a 460 S&W!
IKE
Single-Sixer
The Dying 44 ?......not at my house.
I'll have to admit that my 45ACP 1911's go to the range a lot more often but my 1989 mfg. Redhawk makes several trips yearly also.
It now wears Pachmayr Presentation grips.
I'll have to admit that my 45ACP 1911's go to the range a lot more often but my 1989 mfg. Redhawk makes several trips yearly also.
It now wears Pachmayr Presentation grips.
How does "I have something more bigger burning more powder." change the equation between 44 mag and the "girls can shoot this too" calibers? Other than to RE-ENFORCE the facts of physics between smaller slower is NOT EQUAL to bigger faster?
vlavalle
Blackhawk
While the topic in this thread is on the .44 Mag, I have to comment about using the 10mm for hunting, and specifically, the hunting of larger game. Those who sport the 10mm are basically semi-auto pistols users, and do not want or like revolvers, and probably have not really used one. Given that most revolvers are a lot more powerful than most pistols (and yes, a revolver is not a pistol), the propensity to suggest using the 10mm over even the .357 Mag, is just one of bias. The .357 Mag is considerably more powerful than the 10mm (over 20% more), and then there is the .41 Mag that is 24% more powerful than the .357 Mag, and then the .44 mag, which is 60% more powerful than the .357.
I own a .45 LC Blackhawk Convertible, so I can shoot both the .45 ACP (with a cylinder swap) and the .45 Colt (LC). When I shoot the high powered .45 LC ammo (from Buffalo Bore), it is like shooting the .44 Mag, with a very big recoil and loud sound. Of course, some recoil can be attenuated to, partially by the barrel length. My 3.57 Mag Black hawk has a 6 1/2" barrel, so the recoil on the max load is not that great. But barrel length on my .45 Ruger Blackhawk is only 5 1/2", so the kick is huge with the big loads! I suspect that it would probably be manageable on a 7 1.2 barrel, but I have never had the opportunity to try that. By the way, when I shot the hottest .45 ACP round (Atomic 616 ft. lbs.), the kick is more like shooting a 9mm pistol. Of course, my .45 Ruger Blackhawk is a much heavier and much more robust handgun than any pistol.
vlavalle
Blackhawk
I lived thru the muscle car era, and even was able to drive a few (Plymouth 426), and none of today's stock 'muscle cars' come close in a full sized sedan. But the efficiency of engines has dramatically changed, so power has increased per engine size considerably. For example, I have a family car, a 2013 Chev Impala with a V6, and it delivers 300 HP! And it is only a 3.6L engine, which is on 220 cu! The original muscle car was the 1965 GTO, and it had a 389 CU engine, and with 3 dueces (carburators), that version delivered 360 HP. What a difference engines are today. Also, today, the Mustang is in the class of muscle car, but back in the day, the Mustang was not a muscle car at all.
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The 44 magnum has been relegated to the adequate for some uses category. Kinda like the 30-06. At this point it's only mediocre in the realm of handgun power. When I got my Dan Wesson 44+Magnum+ it was pretty cutting edge. I was pushing 454 Cassull power when it was just a Wildcat. The Modern equivalent would be the 460S&W or similar.
vlavalle
Blackhawk
I see you mentioned 'pushing 454 Casull power', but that is probably not possible. You may have achieved a bit more power than what you thought was the max .44 Mag power, but not much. The .44 Mag max's out at a power level of 1,544 Ft. lbs., so if you are reloading, you may have never achieved that power level. But even if you did, the .454 Casull max's out at 2,200 ft. lbs., which is 45% more powerful. In other words, there is a hug difference.
The Dan Wesson and Super Redhawk have cylinders longer than normal and actions far stronger than anything S&W. They were made for the Mad Scientists shooting IHMSA at the time. Many envelopes were being pushed.
Attachments
settup6
Single-Sixer
I bugs me how gun writers seem like they want to kill off certain calibers when they should be promoting every caliber. It just seems negative and anti gun.
vlavalle
Blackhawk
It is also that they are full of themselves! I have heard several times that the .45 ACP was going away, and it is the 3rd most offered caliber i get from many retailers online. I get between 10-20 email everyday from ammo & gun retailers.
They are trying to sell magazines etc. There's not much NEW that you can write about the 44 magnum and 30-06. The data has pretty much been the data for 40-80 years. Sure there's a new bullet/powder combination every few years but that's it. Nobody is making anything noteworthy with either caliber either.
Whenever anything remotely different comes around it's going to get the attention. What does it do in X platform? How fast, how far what will it penetrate and how much energy does it transfer???
At this point 460/500S&W have even been wrung out for anything noteworthy. A 357 in a similar length might be interesting. More of a Goldilocks hunting handgun round. But then revolvers are kinda 19-20th Century. Can I honestly do anything with any handgun that I couldn't do with a light/compact carbine? 50 years ago the idea of hunting with a handgun was a genuine challenge much like one of the primitive methods. As we see now anything "Primitive" and "Challenging" has been corrupted with modern tech!!! So is a 357-44 Magnum any less capable than they were 60 years ago? No but then again nobody is interested in reading about anything older than a few years because most everything has been there done that a hundred ways from Sunday.
Now a semi auto with 454 Casull power and 300yd accuracy would be noteworthy!!! Trim a 450 Bushmaster and neck it down to 357 in a Deagle size package!!! Noteworthy!!!
Old Muleskinner
Bearcat
I highly value what Taffin has to say about the 44. Mike V, not so much.
Wish I had seen that earlier, I just bought a couple more last week. Didn't realize they were dead!
Cool story bro.
IF a 44 mag is "only mediocre", what does that make a 9mm? 380?
I am good with my mediocre .44
The real big boomers were never my thing.
I am happy in the 1050-1100 fps range.
Once in a while I will load a few Keith loads for the kids.
9mm and .380's are for babies.
KIDDING.
I own pistols in both calibers lol.
Shooting any caliber is fun.
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