Tell me why this won't work, custom work.

[chris_]

I have wanted a .41 Vaquero with a short barrel for a long time. I have had and sold a few custom revolvers and cannot justify spending that kind of money again, especially with four young children.

I have a Bisley Vaquero in .357, a .41 Blackhawk barrel and cylinder and am a ho hum machinist. I have a good friend who is a fantastic machinist who can do some work for me if needed.

Any reason I can't thread the BH barrel on the Vaquero frame, check the spacing and shake, and fit the cylinder to the frame, then drill it out? Will I have timing issues? I was under the impression that smaller cylinders for this type of application were drilled out rather than custom made.

Then cut the barrel to length, redrill for the ERH and finish to taste?

I am sure there are a myriad of things I am overlooking, that's why I would like some input. Thanks.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I'm sure all that could be done, although I certainly couldn't do it.

If I were wanting a .41 Bisley with a short barrel, I'd give serious thought to installing a Bisley grip frame, hammer, and trigger onto a short-tubed .41 Blackhawk . . . creating another "screwdriver variation", as it were.

But I'm lazy . . . not to mention lacking in talent.

;)

 

[ar15ed]

i'd say go for it! and post up lots of photos of your progress! it sounds interesting!

 

[Ale-8(1)]

In re-reading your post, I now realize you were looking to have a Vaquero, and what I described wouldn't produce that . . . it would have the wrong sights.

Nevermind.

;) :oops: ;)

 

[gak]

Should work, assuming you're talking an original large frame Bisley Vaquero, the cylinders are (generally) the same size--or let's say belong on the same Blackhawk/SBH-size frame. The B/C gap will likely need attention after the barrel and cylinder are installed, but you already knew that. ..And you may have additional cylinder fitting issues that need to be attended to (any time a non original cylinder is being fitted). Another route (that still doesn't get you out of B/C adjustment of course) is to have your .357 cylinder rechambered to the .41....perhaps at least maklng "easy" cylinder fitting more a slam dunk. Perhaps a hard thing to think of doing, considering you've already got a.41 cylinder all ready and waiting.

 

[chris_]

I have no problem drilling the .357 cylinder to fit and selling the .41 cylinder. Just trying to get to this end the cheapest way, which ultimately may be the most expensive way. :) Seems to me I can handle most of the work here. Then send it off to Clements to have a new front site, remove the banner and be CCH and reblued.

 

[DeletedMember275]

Several years ago I had a well-used .357 Blackhawk, a .45 Colt cylinder and barrel, and decided I wanted a .45 Colt Blackhawk. Well, I got one, but I sure could have bought a brand new convertible .45/45 Blackhawk for what I have wrapped up in this one!

Sounds like you're about to go down the same road.

 

[chris_]

Problem is, I figure I can be into this for under a thousand while having it done will cost me well over 2k and probably close to three. And there has never been a 41 Vaquero made.

 

[Robb Barnes]

There are at least a couple of us with 41 Vaqueros. One guy I believe has 2 of them and John Gallagher should be wrapping one up for me in the near future. What you want to do is relatively "simple" to do especially if you rechamber yoru properly timed 357 cylinder to 41 and already have a 41 barrel, The barrel fitment and BC gap could be a challenge as you mentioned then dealing with the front sight and WRH screw but it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on what you need to do.

 

[Hondo44]

Chris,

I think you're on the right track with your plan of using the extra 41 cyl and barrel. I don't see the timing of the new cylinder as an issue, at least not in my experience. But that concern is the 1st thing to eliminate. Have you tried the 41 cyl in the Vaquero yet? If not I would do that and turn off the barrel if the cyl won't fit because of the barrel extension thru the frame. Assuming the timing works out for the cyl measure the space between the front of the cyl and the inside of the frame surface and write it down. Remove cylinder. In the remote chance the cyl doesn't time, a few strokes on the cyl pawl or stretching it a bit is quite simple but we don't need to cross that bridge right now.

Turn in and tighten the 41 barrel and see how it 'clocks' (is the sight straight up and down?) If it tightens up before the sight is at 12 o'clock but it's close, the simplest way to fit it is too draw file the front of the frame. The beauty of this is you won't have to modify the Ejector rod housing length.
PLAN A:
The barrel thread is 24 threads per inch or .0416" per thread or one complete turn of the barrel. So for example if the barrel is about 1/8th of a turn short of the sight being at 12 o'clock you need to remove 1/8 of .0416" or .0052" from the front of the frame which is not much.

Next measure how far the barrel sticks thru the frame and add .0052" to it because once you draw file the frame the barrel still stick thru that much farther. Now compare that measurement to the cyl spacing from above and you'll know what the b/c gap will be. If it's too long or too tight of a gap you'll know how much to take off of the barrel forcing cone shooting for about a .005" + or - b/c gap. If the barrel is not long enough to get that gap or something close to it, you have to go to Plan B.

PLAN B:
If the barrel is too short like in the above or the barrel doesn't tighten until the sight goes past 12 o'clock you'll need to take more off the front of the frame. For example if the barrel doesn't tighten until it's 1/4 turn past 12 o'clock it'll have to turn in another 3/4s of a turn for the sight to come around and be straight up again. So (.0416" divided by 4) x 3 = .0312" has to come off the front of the frame.
If you have a lathe you can 'turn off' .0312" of the barrel shoulder where it meets the frame. But again you'll have to shorten the ERH.

Bottom line is you need some measurements to see how the parts will fit together and what you need to do, simple as that.

If you're going to cut the barrel off shorter than the ERH screw hole it becomes much simpler, but you'll have to drill and tap a blind hole for the ERH screw when all done and shorten the ERH. If you're shortening the barrel to the standard 4 5/8" you just order a new front sight blade and have someone mill and solder it in place and re-blue the gun.

I would not try to salvage the front blade from the old Vaquero barrel. They are only $6 from Brownell's and if you want to sell the original barrel most will pass on it because it'll need a new sight soldered in and the barrel re-blued.

That's my practice and thought process, hope that helps,

 

[chris_]

Jim, that's what I was wanting to hear. I am not overly concerned with the clocking of the barrel because it will be cut down past the current ERH hole and will need a new sight as well. So I am thinking I can just screw it in, assuming the threads on the Vaquero and BH are the same and then deal with the BC gap and I should be good to go.

 

[Hondo44]

Chris,
I guarantee the barrels are the same thread size. All Ruger large frame and mid size frames use the same thread size. It's also the same as the 3rd gen Colts just for reference. Only the small frame Single six barrels are different.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[chris_]

After measuring all the BH's and Vaquero's in my possession. it seems like the barrel shank is a few thousandths longer on the BH's. Assuming this is the case, I should just be able to face the end of the barrel shank and recut the forcing cone a mite and it should all fit together dandy. If I decide to keep the barrel length longer or even at 4" which is really where I would like to be, I can tig up the ERH hole and drill a new one. It has to be refinished anyhow.

 

[Hondo44]

After measuring all the BH's and Vaquero's in my possession. it seems like the barrel shank is a few thousandths longer on the BH's. Assuming this is the case, I should just be able to face the end of the barrel shank and recut the forcing cone a mite and it should all fit together dandy. If I decide to keep the barrel length longer or even at 4" which is really where I would like to be, I can tig up the ERH hole and drill a new one. It has to be refinished anyhow.

You can go as long as 4 1/4" and the ERH screw hole will be gone. It's an 8 x 36 by the way. If you go as short as 3 1/2" consider this:

A USFA cammed slot ERH was fitted to allow for sufficient ejection rod travel by going around the cyl pin to eject cases, especially 22 mags. It also allows removal of the cylinder pin for cylinder changes in the field w/o removal of the ERH. The ER was shortened and pointed (to more easily find those 22 chambers.)

 

[Lee Martin]

It should work. Alignment would be the only concern but it'll be close. If there's endshake you could bush the cylinder for proper fit.

Sounds like a neat project so keep us posted. I built this 41 Mag Vaquero a few years back:

 

[Pal Val]

A USFA cammed slot ERH was fitted to allow for sufficient ejection rod travel by going around the cyl pin to eject cases, especially 22 mags. It also allows removal of the cylinder pin for cylinder changes in the field w/o removal of the ERH. The ER was shortened and pointed (to more easily find those 22 chambers.)

[/quote]

That cammed ejector rod is a really elegant solution. Excellent!

 

[chris_]

Lee, I was hoping you would pipe in here as well. Thanks gents will keep you updated.

 

[Hondo44]

Lee,
What's your opinion on the best way to 'bush' the cylinder; mill off and and ream for a short front end pressed in bushing like early 3rd gen Colts or ream out for a full length removable bushing like the current 3rd gen Colts?

 

[Lee Martin]

I prefer to ream short. I actually did just that on my Buffalo Seville project. The whole build is documented in the below thread (page 15 illustrates the bushing process):

http://singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=8069&page=1

 

[CraigC]

Problem is, I figure I can be into this for under a thousand while having it done will cost me well over 2k and probably close to three.

How do you figure that??? This is a basic conversion, how could it cost $2000, let alone three???

PS, .357 cylinders are shorter than all the rest so you 'may' run into OAL issues with a rechambered cylinder. Better to just install a .41 take-off cylinder.

 

[chris_]

Unless I am missing something, and that's possible, nobody is doing caliber conversions for under 2k.

 

[Lee Martin]

Rechambering existing cylinders and reboring barrels is well under $2K. It's when you start making cylinders from scratch that the price rises.

 

[CraigC]

Unless I am missing something, and that's possible, nobody is doing caliber conversions for under 2k.

Where are you coming up with this?

I like Jim Stroh, have used him a few times before and his price list is easily deciphered.

Here's a premium grade conversion:
New premium barrel - $230
New blade front sight - $93
New conventional custom cylinder - $511
Action job - $138
Reblue - $177
That's $1149.

Have him fit a Ruger take-off barrel and cylinder and you're talking dirt cheap.

 

[chris_]

Unless I am missing something, and that's possible, nobody is doing caliber conversions for under 2k.

Where are you coming up with this?

I like Jim Stroh, have used him a few times before and his price list is easily deciphered.

Here's a premium grade conversion:
New premium barrel - $230
New blade front sight - $93
New conventional custom cylinder - $511
Action job - $138
Reblue - $177
That's $1149.

Have him fit a Ruger take-off barrel and cylinder and you're talking dirt cheap.

You are sure enough right. Thanks!

 

[Groo]

Groo here
I had a New Vaquero 357 SS converted to 41mag by Andy Horvath in LeGrange Ohio.
Way under the 1K your talking.
Handles factory very well And as long as you load to factory length [ no more than 1.5in or 1.6in]
all is fine.
By using a 357 the cylinder is short , ruger's ides and Andy line bores it to 41.
Then adds a 41 barrel [ mine is a Dougless ] and tunes the barrel
Ask for a pined front sight at the same time.

 

[EDK]

IF the factory 41 cylinder will fit in the frame, use it rather than re-bore the 357 cylinder. A lot less yankee dollars than a custom wheel...a VAQUERO isn't a target gun.

Go with the custom barrel since a BLACKHAWK barrel will have the ramp sight. IF you want a conventional SAA sight on your gun, you'd have to remove the ramp and install the correct type sight. I'd cheat and have a .125 width front sight installed and the hog wallow rear sight adjusted.

I'd go with the full length bushing on MY gun for maximum cylinder pin contact. Read Jim Stroh/ALPHA PRECISION brochure for the reasoning behind this.

 

[chris_]

If I didn't mention it, I plan to cut the barrel just over 4", I want it short but still just long enough to hunt with here in CA. So I will need to get a new site and re drill for the ERH. Due to the fluctuating state of my finances, I had some parts lined up but not bought and they ALL fell through. LOL.

Right now I have the barrel and cylinder lined up, although I would like to find a non fluted engraved cylinder from a Bisley Blackhawk. Looks like it's coming together. If I can get the gun for under $400, I should have less than $600 in this gun.