Talk to me about loading 45 Colt in 454 brass.........

[Skalkaho Slim]

Came across some 454 rounds that I'll never use and decided to pull the pills.

Planning on trimming them down and using them for some 300gr thumpers in 45 Colt.

I'll be loading 300gr Hornady XTP's and 300gr Gold Dots. Also have a lot of 300gr hard cast.

What kind of primers? I hear small rifle. I'll be using H110, what are some good starting loads for both jacketed and cast? I'd imagine something around 21.0, but want to hear from those experienced in the matter.

Trim to standard 45 Colt length (1.285)? Do loads need to be reduced a bit in consideration that the 454 brass is thicker?

Be shooting them in a Ruger Vaquero and Colt Anaconda.

Thanks!

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Consider my local GS gets $1/piece for new .454 brass, maybe it would be more worthwhile to sell what you have and replace it with .45 brass? Just a thought. I wouldn't want to have to mess around with SR primers unless I had to.

-- Sam

 

[Bucks Owin]

I'd reload the "pills" and swap the .454 brass to someone who shoots a .454! I wouldn't blaze my own trail with two unknowns as you mentioned. (Case capacity and a rifle primer) You obviously intend to run a full tilt/heavy bullet load as evidenced by a 300 gr over a heaping helping of H110...

Plenty of tested and proven "thumper" loads for the std .45LC case out there...(And they DO thump! :wink: )

JMHO

 

[dougader]

The remarks about the added expense of 454 brass are right on.

But, after I had a piece of Winchester brass split down the side with a 2nd starting load of 6.5 grains WW231 under a 250 grain hardcast rnfp, I did take 6 older FA 454 cases and trim them down to ~ 1.287" and load them up with CCI 400 small rifle primers, the CP WLNGC bullet of 335 grains, and 22 grains of WW296.

The new 454 Colt loads ran 1211 fps from a 5-1/2" barreled Ruger Bisley.

For comparison, earlier loads with new starline 45 Colt brass, the same 335 grain bullets, Winchester WLP primers and the same 22 grains of WW296 gave me 1196 fps from a 7-1/2" barreled Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull.

 

[Skalkaho Slim]

My normal bear load is a Cast Performance 300gr LFNGC with 21.5gr of H110. Out of regular 45 Colt brass. Yes, they do thump.

I figured I'd use this brass for the heavy stuff as it would last a little longer.

I have no intention of selling it off or trading for 45 Colt brass as there are folks who do this very thing. Just wanted to get some of those who have done it to chime in.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Another thought occured to me regarding rifle primers. They are harder than pistol and "may" give you a concern with light hammer strike/inconsistent velocities.....just saying :wink:

 

[J Miller]

When brass splits length wise with light to normal loads such as dougader described it's due to improperly annealed or defective brass. Not week brass.
I've had factory loaded ammo split that way when loaded in W-W, R-P, and Starline cases.

Skalkaho Slim,
Another thing to consider when you're using 454 Brass; it has thicker case walls. So when you shorten it you'll have less case capacity than the 45 Colt cases. Also depending on your bullet you might run into problems with the cases bulging due to the thicker walls.

If your gun has a normal factory firing pin it won't have any trouble popping SR primers. But as Sam said: "Who wants to mess with SR primers?"

Joe

 

[dougader]

I would say my 45 Colt brass was definitely defective. It looked like it was bad from the inside out. I'm only suprised it didn't split on the first firing.

But that's another reason why I switched to the cut down 454 brass. I knew it had taken a few 454 loads and would stand up to the 45 Colt pressure loads.

I also agree with the added pressure from the 454 brass because of thicker case walls. It was reflected in my testing of my loads. I had an increase of ~15 fps even when using a revolver with a shorter barrel (7.5" vs. 5.5").

 

[Bucks Owin]

"If your gun has a normal factory firing pin it won't have any trouble popping SR primers".

It's not the "pin" that is a concern, it's the hammer spring.. :wink:

"But that's another reason why I switched to the cut down 454 brass. I knew it had taken a few 454 loads and would stand up to the 45 Colt pressure loads".

This makes no sense to me. The cartridge case is supported by the chamber steel irregardless of how thick the case wall is...The case is merely a "gasket" (in Linebaughspeak) ... :?

 

[dougader]

"If your gun has a normal factory firing pin it won't have any trouble popping SR primers".

It's not the "pin" that is a concern, it's the hammer spring.. :wink:

"But that's another reason why I switched to the cut down 454 brass. I knew it had taken a few 454 loads and would stand up to the 45 Colt pressure loads".

This makes no sense to me. The cartridge case is supported by the chamber steel irregardless of how thick the case wall is...The case is merely a "gasket" (in Linebaughspeak) ... :?

And weaker gaskets blow earlier than stronger gaskets. When the defective WW case (gasket) blew using a starting load of 6.5 grains WW231, I didn't know about until I went to remove the case from the cylinder. I can't imagine how bad it could have been with 22 grains of H110 loaded in there under a 335 grain hardcast WLNGC. A blast in the face with escaping gases because a "gasket" let go isn't any fun either.

I now use new Starline brass for my heavy "Ruger only" loads in 45 Colt. Back then, nearly all I had was WW in 45 Colt. That's why I used cut-down 454 brass.

But I'll tell you, after trimming 6 454 cases I had enough. That's work!

 

[WESHOOT2]

Often it's the chamber that's slightly oversize......

 

[BIgMuddy]

Dick Metcalf wrote an article in Shooting Times (Feb. 2007) on this very subject. He got 70 to 100 fps more velocity with the cut down 454's in a 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk and a little less gain in a TC COntender. I think it was due to using the rifle primers though.

I might be wrong (often am) but I was pretty sure that Starline 454 and 45 Colt brass have the same wall thickness.

Dan

 

[dougader]

I have that article by Dick Metcalf.

I don't know about the Starline 454 cases, but the Starline 44 mag and 45 Colt cases have the same wall and web thickness. At least that's what Brian Pearce at Handloader mag says.

 

[Skalkaho Slim]

Well, since most all of my 45 Colt brass is Starline, perhaps I'll let this one go.

So far, I've been using Buffalo Bore brass for my heavy loads, which I really don't shoot that often.

 

[J Miller]

"If your gun has a normal factory firing pin it won't have any trouble popping SR primers".

It's not the "pin" that is a concern, it's the hammer spring.. :wink:

"But that's another reason why I switched to the cut down 454 brass. I knew it had taken a few 454 loads and would stand up to the 45 Colt pressure loads".

This makes no sense to me. The cartridge case is supported by the chamber steel irregardless of how thick the case wall is...The case is merely a "gasket" (in Linebaughspeak) ... :?

That was an "oops". What I meant to type and what got typed was not in any way similar. You are correct, I should have said "normal hammer spring"..

Joe

 

[Bucks Owin]

Often it's the chamber that's slightly oversize......

Exactly. And often a "starting load" doesn't expand the case tightly against the chamber walls. Anyone who has loaded for the .45 BH has likely noticed some "smoked cases" as a result of low pressure "SAAMI .45" starting loads....

On the other hand, with stout "Linebaugh loads", there'll be quite a noticable bulge ahead of the web. My regimen is to not resize the bulge, and relegate the case to less strenuous duty after a couple loadings...

I expect these fat chambers contribute to a split case or two after repeated resizing ... :wink:
(Why Ruger makes them so large is beyond me...Maybe so when the Comanches attack, a dirty and dented round will chamber? :lol: )

 

[VAdoublegunner]

I picked up about 40 pieces of once fired 454 brass at the range a year or so ago. A guy had fired it from a SRH. That was my plan, to trim it back and use it for some of those 50kpsi level loads in my 5.5" Redhawk. I don't normally need or use that power level for hunting, but if I am traveling in big snarly teethy clawy critter country they aren't a bad option to have handy.