Super Redhawk shooting questions

[Donaldjr1969]

Today when I was at the range, I fired about 180 rounds through my MkIII 22/45 in about 35-40 minutes. I was doing very well for myself and saw my groups begin to decrease in size. Of course, some still were wide if I twitched the pistol. But when I was finished, I shoot a few cylinders through my Super Redhawk. I was shooting very wide groups today. I seriously do not think I am flinching. When I dry-fire at home, I can keep a dollar coin from falling off the topstrap. I even balance an empty 120 film spool on end and it will not fall off the topstrap during dry-fire. Yet at the range, I tend to shoot rather low. It is almost as if I am either A, pulling the revolver down by resting very low on the trigger or B, I am relaxing my grip somewhat right when firing causing the revolver to drop.

Due to the fact I am very steady at home dry firing yet unsteady at the range, does anybody here think my lack of steadiness is from "fatigue" after an hour or less of shooting the MkIII? I mean, my MkIII dry is 33oz so it is no lightweight. After shooting the MkIII and then holding a revolver that it 20oz heavier, is that only magnifying any possible fatigue? Lastly, if I plan to shoot both handguns, would I be better off firing the Magnum FIRST then moving to the MkIII to finish off my range session?

I should note that I do not lean on anything such as the bench nor the sides of the stall. I am shooting an isosceles stance vs a Weaver stance. The isosceles stance works very well for me with the MkIII so I tend to use it with all my handguns. I am not getting that frustrated. I just would like to shoot better with the Magnum. I have shot fairly tight groups before.

PS: I did shoot at a local trap range before heading down to the indoor range. My last round of trap was shot about 20-30 minutes prior to even walking in the door. And I had a 15 minute wait before getting an open lane. But do our more seasoned shooters here think I was "pre-fatigued" by shooting 3 rounds of trap prior to the pistol range? Yet I seemed to be fine shooting the MkIII right off the bat.

PPS: My SRH is a very popular piece at the range! People's eyes get wide when they see it and I get plenty of smiles and thumbs-ups when I shoot it despite my current less than stellar accuracy.

 

[Polecat Carl]

Donald,

I would suggest trying the SRH first and see if your accuracy improves. It could be that you just had a bad day. Try shooting the big Magnum first on your next couple of range trips. That way you can eliminate the fatigue issue.

Hope this helps,

Carl

 

[junebug 1]

Check your grip ,the two pistols have different grip styles,so you might be carrying over some of your grip style from the 22. The easiest way to tell if you are flinching is to have someone load the gun for you while you look somewhere else skipping a chamber or two. You will know right away if you have a problem.Did this for a guy that swore he wasn't flinching said he shot bigbores all the time,thought he was witching for water the barrel went down so fast and far.he got pissed,so if you try this dont be thin skinned and get mad at your buddy,he's trying to help,

 

[deac45]

+1 what Junebug said! That's the quickest way to see if you are flinching or not. Dry fire is good practice for learning the trigger and building muscle memory but knowing there will be no boom or recoil really steadies things out.

deac45

 

[Donaldjr1969]

+1 what Junebug said! That's the quickest way to see if you are flinching or not. Dry fire is good practice for learning the trigger and building muscle memory but knowing there will be no boom or recoil really steadies things out.

deac45

The recoil to me is quite controllable. I do not find it offensive and would feel comfortable shooting 100 rounds or more per session...if I had the money to spend on 44Magnum ammo! And since I am more than capable of tolerating the recoil, I just wonder where or in what manner I could be causing a flinch. I'm not saying it is impossible. I just wonder where I am getting a flinch from when I can say the recoil actually "feels good" in my hand. But Junebug's idea is a good one. I can tell a friend who shoots with me at times to load 4 rounds into the cylinder without me looking and then give me the revolver. If I ever hook up with Iron Mike Golf from here at the range we both patronize, I could have him give me pointers and try that method as well.

I know I am capable of getting good groups handheld from 8 to 10 yards. Below is a photo I posted before from 9-10 yards handheld on just my second outing with the SRH.

The ammo used for that outing was Federal American Eagle 240g JHPs. Today I was using WWB 240g JSPs. I seriously doubt it is the ammo. By now, the recoil is no big deal. So I just wonder where the flinch, if that is indeed the problem, is coming from here... Could I be relaxing my grip???

Also, that is a good point about going to a different grip frame and the resultant gripping technique I use. I also am thinking that I could still be working the trigger as if it were the MkIII with its trigger travel and pull. I forgot to mention that I am shooting the SRH single action for the time being. And the single action pull is quite different compared to the MkIII as we know. The SRH is a hair trigger when fired SA while the trigger on the MkIII has a greater "travel" if that is the correct term to use. So I could very well be unconsciously transferring that trigger motion and the muscle memory that goes with it from the MkIII to the SRH.

Whatever the case may be, either an inadvertent flinch or relaxation of my grip as well as an improper trigger technique on the SRH, I know I will eventually overcome them with practice. It was like when I first learned to drive a manual transmission. I was jerky on the launch plus my shifts were not smooth. Now, I drive my manual transmission cars smoother than many automatics. And practice will help me a lot. I am always interested in what other RF members have done in similar situations as mine. Of course maybe Carl is right. I could have had a bad day. Only thing to do is wait until late next week and hit the range again.

By the way, I mentioned an isosceles stance. As far as my arms go, I maintain the triangular orientation. But I find it more comfortable to flex my elbows slightly than to fully lock them with any of my handguns. I find that I am steadier that way when I line up the sights. I feel that I twitch more with my elbows fully extended and locked.

 

[BlackEagle]

I would try adjusting the sights a bit to compensate. I have wasted a good bit of time and ammo trying to get a gun to shoot where I want it to shoot, and then solved the problem by adjusting the sights. Your stance, grip, and balance may be consistent, but may not be tuned in to the sights.

 

[contender]

I don't see a real problem at all by the pic you posted. Plus,, your grip/stance is correct. AND you should NOT lock your elbows. So,, I'd say if you are experiencing lower groups,, it may just be fatigue.

 

[Tommy Kelly]

If your super has a lighter trigger you may try using the last joint of your trigger finger. Some people use the second pad of the finger to shoot and this will cause the pistol to be pulled off target where the tip pulls straighter back. Give it a try may possibly solve your problem.

 

[Donaldjr1969]

I went down to the range today to shoot my 22/45 MkIIIas I always do at least once a week. Since I did not have a decent outing with the SRH last weekend as I mentioned, I took the SRH today to try my luck again. I did not have anybody to accompany me so they could not load the cylinder with a couple chambers empty to see if I have a flinch. But after two cylinders, I was happy. I took the advice of a couple members and shot the revolver early in my session. So I am thinking it was merely fatigue. But here is my better group of the two.

Each square on this target is obviously 1" in size. So I am happy.

Now here is a comparison shot between the two cylinders.

The group on the right was my first. Apparently I had a sideways twitch which pulled my first shot wide right. I know it was not from my grip or trigger finger hold. I make sure to use the pad of my first joint on the trigger and I do not lobster grip the revolver. So it was most likely a bit of unsteadiness.

My distance was only about 8-9 yards today. And I did not go to the trap range prior to the pistol range. Now you can probably see my 10shot MkIII groups as well. I feel I did pretty good. I am beginning to tighten up with them as well. All I need to do is get some Loctite Blue to secure the front sight mounting screw as it is backing out under usage.

 

[deac45]

That's some good shooting! Fatigue is easier to fix than a flinch!

deac45

 

[flatgate]

I know I am capable of getting good groups handheld from 8 to 10 yards. Below is a photo I posted before from 9-10 yards handheld on just my second outing with the SRH.

I can't shoot all that well with a "off hand" stance and certainly would NEVER compare groups from different ammo batches while shooting "off hand".

For me, the procedure is to acquire the revolver. Inspect the throats, measure the B/C gap, look for "burrs" in the chamber, etc. then shoot it off sandbags or a steady rest or something similar. I usually choose 25 yards as the "benched" distance.

Off hand testing, for me, comes last..........

JMHO,

flatgate

 

[Donaldjr1969]

Flatgate, I guess the reason for firing off-hand is to learn to increase my stability when gripping and firing a handgun. I have to admit that I have not owned my very own handguns until May of this year. Oh I have shot .22lr handguns 20+ years ago for general plinking. But I have never fired one for accuracy. So while I know I could get much better groups using a bag and sending the target all the way back to the 20yrd limit, I really want to learn control before I start trying to shoot on a bag for maximum accuracy.

When I eventually do hook up with Iron Mike Golf at the range we both patronize, he mentioned being willing to measure my cylinder throats and I think even my b/c gap.

 

[junebug 1]

Recoil can have a cumulative affect in that the more you take the more tired your arms and hands get,and the more you shake. Then the harder you try to control the shake the worse it gets. With big bore pistols I can only shoot a few groups at a time then the groups start to open up. With my 12 inch 45-70 that can be as few as 5 or six rounds at a time, then I lay it down for awhile. I will come back to it later and shoot another group. Trying to force it only causes bad habits and frustration, Then the groups go to hell. Its not about numbers, its about how many can I shoot today [with total concentration ,] and some days its not many! Use the .22 for relaxing between groups ,

 

[GhosT]

First off,
Flategate said..
"I can't shoot all that well with a "off hand" stance and certainly would NEVER compare groups from different ammo batches while shooting "off hand"...Well, THAT MAKES SENSE!!!!
Testing ammo batches has to be done off a bench!


Second,
Donald said...
"I fired about 180 rounds through my MkIII 22/45 in about 35-40 minutes."


Donald...even though rimfires...180 rounds...don't ya think will fatigue her trigger pulling?

That would have to contribute to worst groups when move to a magnum!

I highly suspect yer a better shooter with yer SRH than ya know!.....