Some SA questions

[chris_]

I have quite a few DA revolvers and have a fast opportunity to pick up either a Bisley Vaquero, a Bisley Blackhawk or a Blackhawk convertible in 45.

If I buy the regular Bisley Blackhawk in 45C, can I purchase a 45 ACP cylinder and make it a convertible?

How long does it take to swap cylinders?

Can the vaquero be made into a convertible?

I prefer the Bisley gripframe, I am assuming I can swap the Bisley gripframe on to the BH if I go that route?

I know the answers to all of these questions can be found here but I am sort of in a hurry and these guns are my buddies and I have first pick but he wants to get them up on GB today. Thanks!

 

[Shadow]

Chris ......... I'd say buy the BH Bisley, with the assumption it has the factory Biz grip frame and low slung hammer spur. You can probably find a 45 acp cylinder easy enough to give you the convertible you want. At least you'll have an original Bisley, and now you can go from there. On the other hand, if the "price" is right, maybe you can purchase all three as a "package" deal, ultimately selling the standard BH to recoup part of your investment (keeping the 45 ACP cylinder), leaving you with the two Bisley's. Another option is buy both Bh's as a package, keep the Biz and the extra cylinder and sell off the standard BH. Good luck either way. Keep us posted regarding your decision.

Shadow

 

[chris_]

Chris ......... I'd say buy the BH Bisley, with the assumption it has the factory Biz grip frame and low slung hammer spur. You can probably find a 45 acp cylinder easy enough to give you the convertible you want. At least you'll have an original Bisley, and now you can go from there. On the other hand, if the "price" is right, maybe you can purchase all three as a "package" deal, ultimately selling the standard BH to recoup part of your investment (keeping the 45 ACP cylinder), leaving you with the two Bisley's. Another option is buy both Bh's as a package, keep the Biz and the extra cylinder and sell off the standard BH. Good luck either way. Keep us posted regarding your decision.

Shadow

I have to stop doing that. I just bought a package of all three Alaskans from a guy here. That pretty much killed my gun budget.

I am leaning towards the Vaquero Bisley. My two concerns with the Vaquero is whether or not the Vaq can handle the heavy loads I like to shoot, and whether or not I can swap in the 45 ACP cylinder. I am not against having the Vaq cylinder machined for moon clips, as long as I can still shoot LC.

 

[JWhitmore44]

As long as the Bisley Vaquero is not a New Vaquero the frame is the same as the 45 Blackhawk. I fit a 45 acp cylinder to my birds head Vaquero. If you had the Colt cylinder milled to take moon clips that would mean you would have to remove the cylinder to load and eject, probably not a good idea.

 

[chris_]

I see that Ruger does make a Distributor exclusive Vaquero Bisley with an extra cylinder so it should be as simple as tracking down the cylinder. So now my only concern is whether or not they will handle the loads. How can I tell if it is a "new" Vaquero?

 

[tek4260]

It will be rollmarked "New Vaquero"

 

[flatgate]

New Vaqueros have a mainspring strut lock mechanism. Easily seen by removing one grip panel.

flatgate

 

[Lance0812]

From what I understand - from Ruger and others - is that while you may find a .45ACP cylinder, the timing won't necessarily match your gun.
These are not buy-it-and-drop-it-in pieces - although some folks on this form have been lucky.
Ruger will take your pistol and fit it with a .45ACP cylinder that works - total cost about $175.00.

 

[chris_]

From what I understand - from Ruger and others - is that while you may find a .45ACP cylinder, the timing won't necessarily match your gun.
These are not buy-it-and-drop-it-in pieces - although some folks on this form have been lucky.
Ruger will take your pistol and fit it with a .45ACP cylinder that works - total cost about $175.00.

Fantastic. Thanks. I am getting the Vaquero. Will post a pic or two in the AM.

 

[chris_]

It is only marked Vaquero, so may I assume it is an old Vaquero? I wish it was a 4 incher but I got a great deal. I had a line on a 4" on Gunbroker but this one was $100 less so I'll deal with the extra 3/4"

I'm very happy with it. I'm going to shoot it here in an hour or two. Then it's off to Ruger for a 45 ACP cylinder.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[don44]

Nice looking revolver!

 

[Jbrown75]

It is only marked Vaquero, so may I assume it is an old Vaquero?

Thanks for all your help.

The serial starting with 57- pegs it as a large frame Vaquero, as the rollmark that says 'Vaquero' isn't always indicative of the large frame size.

 

[chris_]

The serial is 57-504--

So if I am understanding correctly, this is the large frame and I am OK to shoot Ruger only loads? I shot some 250's at about 900fps today. Shot a bit high and very smoothly. I have shot a Blackhawk in the past and never cared for how they fit my hand. The Bisley grip frame fits me fine.

 

[Jbrown75]

Yep, bang away.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Usta be you could let the gun tell you what it is. However it seems recently Ruger has managed to screw that up and has issued a few New Vaqueros that simply say Vaquero on them. But this is how you used to be able to tell.

As far as interchanging cylinders, that is a bit more iffy. Generally speaking, cylinders are fit to a specific gun at the factory. You can sometimes get lucky and a cylinder from one gun will fit another. But I can tell you that I have a pair of Stainless Vaqueros and the cylinders absolutely do not interchange. One is long enough that it won't even enter the frame of the other, let alone talk about the timing.

 

[chris_]

Don't know what happened to the post I just made?


This brings me to another question. On this revolver, the cylinder stops between chamber holes. It is my understanding that Ruger has fixed this problem in later models. If I send it in, will they fit a new Colt cylinder to it to correct this? It sure makes loading and unloading a hassle.

 

[JWhitmore44]

Don't know what happened to the post I just made?


This brings me to another question. On this revolver, the cylinder stops between chamber holes. It is my understanding that Ruger has fixed this problem in later models. If I send it in, will they fit a new Colt cylinder to it to correct this? It sure makes loading and unloading a hassle.

That would make it a Vaquero and not a New Vaquero If you want the one with the index pawl correct you have to go with a New Vaquero. You do have a few options on the Vaquero, I modded my indexing pawl so that the cylinder free spins both directions with the loading gate open. You can buy a free spin pawl from Midway or Brownels and install it, or you can go with a half cock hammer.

 

[chris_]

Well, thanks, Jwhitmore, I will look into that a bit more.

I did speak to Ruger and they will NOT fit a 45 ACP cylinder to the gun. Oh well, I'll just have to do two types of loadings for the Colt. They also will not fit a new cylinder to correct the offset issue.

Either way, I am very happy with my first SA purchase and am already looking at gunbroker to find some more deals. I have a sickness and it's thinning my wallet something fierce!

 

[Hondo44]

Well, thanks, Jwhitmore, I will look into that a bit more.

I did speak to Ruger and they will NOT fit a 45 ACP cylinder to the gun. Oh well, I'll just have to do two types of loadings for the Colt. They also will not fit a new cylinder to correct the offset issue.

Ruger will not install a 45 ACP cylinder because it is a limited production item but occasionally you find them offered for sale after market. A New Vaqeuro ACP cylinder is too short and smaller in diameter for your Vaqeuro frame due to the smaller frame of the New Vaq. So if you find one, be sure it's the Blackhawk/original Vaq. size.

Ruger will not fit a new cylinder to correct the 'offset' issue because it has nothing to do with the cylinder. The offset is caused by the position of the cylinder pawl (hand) which controls cylinder position based on hammer position. Since New Models load with the hammer in the down position, the pawl is not in the correct position to allow the cylinder and chambers to align with the loading gate. That's why a freespin pawl or half cock hammer was suggested.

The new Vaquero and Flat top Model guns that align properly have a free spin pawl and a hammer-slot-mounted detent which aligns the cylinder and chambers. I have duplicated that in my original Vaquero by purchasing and installing the parts: pawl $30, detent screw, spring & plunger about $3 from Brownell's. Half cock hammer eliminates the need for the detent but is about $100 and needs some fitting to allow the hammer to be cocked when the loading gate is open. And although it adds a step to loading and unloading process, it does give the Vaq an old time authenticity and feel. Your choice.

Since it's impracitical to use 1/2 moon or full moon clips in your revolver anyway, and to eliminate the need for a separate cylinder in 45 ACP, you can buy or load 45 Schofield cartridges rather than using small volume powder loads in the 45 Colt long cases. And by trimming the Schofield brass to ACP length you can duplicate 45 ACP ballistics by using ACP loading data. As you know, 45 Auto Rim cases will not work due to the fatter rim.

You can even buy "Cowboy 45 Special" brass and loaded ammo, a new cartridge which is already the exact same legth as 45 ACP. Go here:
http://www.cowboy45special.com/cowboy45brass.html
for everything you want to know about it, loading it and where to get it.

 

[chris_]

Could I use a Blackhawk 45 ACP cylinder?

 

[Hondo44]

Could I use a Blackhawk 45 ACP cylinder?

Absolutely. Chances are it will not be a drop-in however, if it's too long the front cylinder pin boss on the front of the cylinder can be fitted easily. Barrel gap is usually fine. If it's too short, it'll have end play for and aft and will have to have a new boss installed just like when rebuilding an old worn cylinder. If it drops right in and fits well, it will be a miracle but it has happened most often on guns/cylinders close in production vintage.

Timing is usually fine requiring no adjustment.

 

[chris_]

Ok, all good to know, thanks very much for your help, Jim.