Sideways primer

[m00se]

I'm using a Lee Ram Prime on a hand press. Out of 100 cases last night, I had three primers go in sideways and one upside down. Pretty sure the upsidedown primer was my fault. I have no explanation for the sideways primers. Is this just something to be expected?

I was able to remove all four primers by carefully using the decapping die. The three that went in sideways were mutilated beyond use, but the upside down primer had no visible trauma except for a faint ring on the "bottom" side from the flash hole. I want to see if that primer still works, so I re-used it (correctly this time) and marked the case. The seating process completely removed the faint mark from being seated upside down so the only way I can tell this case from the rest is my Sharpie mark. As a side note - walnut media removes Sharpie from brass.

 

[Clovishound]

I have used the ram prime before. I now use the built in on press priming on my Lee turret press. I am still loading the primers manually with this system, which is not that different in operation from the ram prime system.

I have never had a primer flip upside down, or even sideways with either system, The one or two I have had go in sideways were my fault for not paying attention when I inserted the primer. The spring loaded cup seems to hold the primer rather securely until the small ram comes up through it and pushes the primer out of the cup. I have had primers stick to my finger when inserting them, and had them subsequently be pulled back out of the cup and onto the floor. It could easily be pulled out partway and settle back down sideways. Keeping your fingers clean of bullet lube seems to be the answer for me. That, and paying attention to the primer after I pull my finger away from the cup.

 

[m00se]

I had two primers go in sideways on the first 100 cases I primed. I thought those were my fault, so I observed the primers far more carefully this time. Except for the upside down primer, apparently. However, on two of the three sideways primers, I checked that the primer was right-side up and settled correctly in the cup before priming the case, so the primer turned sideways somewhere along the way.

In the first batch, at some point I noticed the primers weren't sitting in the cup correctly. I cleaned a small sliver of brass out of the cup and that problem was cured. In last night's batch there was no debris in the cup.

 

[Clovishound]

I can't see how a primer could turn sideways in the cup. It is a snug fit.

Stupid, is it plugged in, question. You are using the small primer cup for small primers? A small primer would have lots of wiggle room in a large primer cup.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I had two primers go in sideways on the first 100 cases I primed. I thought those were my fault, so I observed the primers far more carefully this time.

Hi,

Congratulations, you're learning! You correctly identified that the problem was operator error, then also correctly identified the solution: eternal vigilance. Excellent!

"Operator error" may not have been responsible for the improperly positioned primer in the first place, but allowing it to be seated in the case does put the burden on the operator:

Some primers, maybe even a different lot from one's "usual" vendor, can have slight differences in dimension which don't affect their usability, but can cause difficulties with feeding in primer tools. With the Lee tool, I find it helpful to give it a "shake" every few primers to ensure they're all headed toward the feed slot, and give each one a quick look as I put the next case in the shellholder (yes, I've had 'em turn sideways, and tried 'em upside down. too. Upside down's just a bozo move on my part--I think "sideways" is usually telling me "it's time to clean the tool.") Call it just one of those many QC things we all develop with time and experience. After a while, it will become second nature. Many "errors" occur as folks try to hurry a process, so work on learning the "safe" procedure first. You'll develop a feel for what's right or wrong, and speed will follow...

Stay safe, and keep learning! (You should be learning thru your entire loading career if you pay attention, too. )

Rick C

 

[m00se]

Clovishound - I'm using the right cup, and it is indeed a snug fit. That's part of what baffles me about a sideways primer - they are oriented correctly as the ram enters the press so the flip is happening where I can't see it. Maybe the case isn't seated fully in the shell holder. If the primer was off-center from the primer pocket on the case I could understand it turning sideways as it is forced in.

Rick - I'm using the Lee Ram Prime - one primer at a time. No automatic feeding The upside down primer probably flipped as I put it in the cup and I didn't catch it. It happened one other time that I did catch and correct. As I mention above - I suspect that maybe the case wasn't fully seated in the shell holder and the misalignment caused my sideways primers.

 

[Mobuck]

A slight misalignment of the primer to brass will cause the primer to turn on it's side as will a slight burr on the primer pocket. It happens often when progressive presses' advancing mechanism gets worn.

 

[Jim Puke]

Using RCBS handprimer, I have had many turned sideways over the years. With this tool, there is no way to do a visual on the primer when it enters the "tube"...so, you only know that something is wrong when you squeeze the handle and feel the difference. I attribute it to the tool being junk...the RCBS handprimer is close to typical Lee caliber, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Rick - I'm using the Lee Ram Prime - one primer at a time. No automatic feeding The upside down primer probably flipped as I put it in the cup and I didn't catch it. It happened one other time that I did catch and correct. As I mention above - I suspect that maybe the case wasn't fully seated in the shell holder and the misalignment caused my sideways primers.

Hi,

mOOse, I missed the Ram Prime in your first post, so I guess I can't give you an "out" here describing the Auto-Prime, can I? Rats...

But once again, it looks like you correctly identified the problem with the misalignment of case and primer, so here are a couple of things I do when using a Ram Prime: first, keep a little thumb pressure on the case while priming so it can't move about in the shell holder. And, second, raise the ram just enough to "feel" the primer make contact then gently increase the pressure on the handle to seat the primer. The first practice helps maintains that alignment you've learned about, and the second is a little harder to describe, but let's just say there's a feel you'll develop that can tell you "everything's lined up" or "whoa, something's not right!" before you really crunch up a primer. It can still happen, but should become a more rare experience in a short enough time!

Rick C

 

[m00se]

Thanks for the suggestions, Rick. I'll try that next time I prime cases.

My first batch of primers were CCI, and the second batch Winchester. The Winchester primers seem to be easier to seat. "Easier" is relative, of course, since neither one takes much effort.

 

[brushunter]

My 2 cents ... been handloading for nearly 35 years , use both a RCBS handprimer and the original tube system on the press. ( RCBS ). It is not uncommon ( maybe 1 or 2 per 100 rounds ) for me to get a primer sideways or upsidedown. Don't know why , it just happens. I just carefully , VERY CAREFULLY , push it back out with the decapper. A few years ago I e-mailed RCBS about the problem ... at that time I was using the tube system exclusively. Since my press was quit old they sent me ( no charge ) new springs , plunger , and body for the primer system... may have helped some ...but still got the occasional primer upsidedown. The primer sideways seems to be a bigger problem with the handprimer ( ??? ) Just be careful and use your common sense ...

regards brushunter

 

[Tommy Kelly]

I have found that most sideways primed brass is caused by the springloaded primer holder is out of line with the shellholder when it passes into it the outer primer holder will compress down a little then pop back up as it aligns with the hole this causes the primer to try to flip in the holder and get sideways before it is pressed into the case. I switched to a lee hand primer and don't have this problem anymore

 

[jsh]

Never had it happen with the lemon squeezer rcbs.
I have observed sideways and upside down on every progressive out there. Two things I think cause this. First is a bench or stand that is not rock solid. The other is speed. I have seen guys run a progressive like they are using a toilet plunger.
Get into a steady rhythm, keep your machine clean and run it as much by feel as anything.
IMHO to many guys start with a progressive rather than a single stage.

 

[powder smoke]

My RCBS hand priming tool works flawless, ps

 

[mikld]

When I use my ram prime, I run the cup up beyond the shell holder to load it. I lower the ram/primer stem just enough to clear the case. Insert case and install the primer. In over 12 years of using a ram prime, I have never had the problems you describe. What case and what primers?