Secrets and Keys to Snub accuracy?

[hogdoc357]

Just thought I would start a new topic.

Share with us any tips, techniques, secrets, or keys for being accurate with your Snub Nose Revolver.
Also, share with us how you have improved your accuracy.
And, with fixed sights, how do you adjust your impact points?

Byron

 

[Snake45]

1. Align sights on target.

2. Carefully press trigger, disturbing the sight alignment as little as possible.

3. Consistent grip really helps.

Yes, it really is just that simple. :wink:

 

[Tellico]

Trigger control is the main thing.
Control POI with bullet weight and velocity if you hand load. Can be done with some different factory loads also. This is for elevation mostly. Windage may require filing sight trough or at worst barrel indexing, if off. Snub nose are for closer ranges from point blank to 15 yds, but can be shot at 100 yds or more and hit things with practice and trigger control.
+1 on Snakes post

 

[glockman99]

I used to think that a "snub-nose" revolver was pretty useless for a shot much over a few yards...That is 'till I watched it done on one of the "shooting shows"...Bob Munden hit a target at quite an impossible distance (200 yards) with a small "snub-nose" revolver...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk&feature=related

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

1) trigger control
2) practice

 

[SamV]

I used to think that a "snub-nose" revolver was pretty useless for a shot much over a few yards...That is 'till I watched it done on one of the "shooting shows"...It was either Jerry Miculek or Bob Mundon, I don't remember which one, but he hit a target at quite an impossible distance with a small "snub-nose" revolver...I think it was on "Impossible Shots".

I have watched Impossible Shots also. Both of those shooters have shot targets at incredible distances. What I can't figure out is how they do it. If you sometimes glance at gun reviews in magazines, they will show groups with a few different loads. Let's say the best group is 2 and1/2 inches at 25 yrds. Doesn't that mean 5" at 50 yds? 10" at 100 yards? I know a revolver set up to hunt with is capable of it. But that gun is probably not giving you a 2-3 inch group at 25yds.

 

[Tellico]

Munden and Miculek are not your ordinary shooters. Bob is almost as good as he thinks he is and Jerry is better than he knows. Both have a range in their yard and shoot 100,000's of rounds a year. The thing not shown on impossible shots is how many misses were edited out? Keith killed a deer at 500 yds with his .44 mag. ( He practiced on rocks at that and longer range.) and a flying buzzard at 300 yds with a 30-06. Want to try that? He then said, "Well that bullet had to go somewhere". There are some shooters that can repeatedly out shoot a Ransom rest. Almost any revolver will shoot better than most ( I said MOST) people can hold. The main thing is practice and more practice.

 

[22/45 Fan]

Keith killed a deer at 500 yds with his .44 mag.

The story I heard was it was an Elk at 600 yards and the round was a heavily loaded .44 Special as the story predates the development of the .44 Mag. Also, I understand he fired all 6 rounds at the Elk and managed to hit it but I don't recall with how many of the rounds.

 

[Sal1950]

No real trick, all the basics of sight alignment, trigger control, proper grip, proper stance, breathing, etc; all come into play, only more so. You have to be consistent and practice a lot.
You can adjust the POI vertically with bullet weight and powder charge. Windage can only be change by some physical manipulation of the guns sights or using Kentucky windage.
Sal

 

[TRanger]

Keith killed a deer at 500 yds with his .44 mag.

The story I heard was it was an Elk at 600 yards and the round was a heavily loaded .44 Special as the story predates the development of the .44 Mag. Also, I understand he fired all 6 rounds at the Elk and managed to hit it but I don't recall with how many of the rounds.

It was a mule deer. The range was 600 yards, and the gun was a new S&W .44 Magnum 6 1/2 inch. Refer to "Hell, I Was There," by Elmer Keith.

 

[Sal1950]

Keith killed a deer at 500 yds with his .44 mag.

The story I heard was it was an Elk at 600 yards and the round was a heavily loaded .44 Special as the story predates the development of the .44 Mag. Also, I understand he fired all 6 rounds at the Elk and managed to hit it but I don't recall with how many of the rounds.

Here's the story in Keith's own words,
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=34
Sal

 

[TRanger]

I'm no Bob Munden; but I often demonstrate for the unenlightened that a .38 snub can be quite effective at 50 yards. I've used a variety of models from Colt and S&W and most recently the Ruger LCR. The concern about point of impact with the fixed sights is vastly overblown from my experience. You can quite easily hit a man with most any reasonable load. What Snake posted above pretty much sums it up. Grip the gun as high and as firmly as possible. Control the trigger and follow through.

 

[Snake45]

No real trick, all the basics of sight alignment, trigger control, proper grip, proper stance, breathing, etc; all come into play, only more so. You have to be consistent and practice a lot.
You can adjust the POI vertically with bullet weight and powder charge. Windage can only be change by some physical manipulation of the guns sights or using Kentucky windage.
Sal

Good post! :wink:

 

[Hugh]

Not a real good hand gun shot here. Bought my first SP-101 .357 three years ago. It was a 2-1/4". Did alright for defense purposes out to ten yards. Bought a 3-1/16" .357 after that. Ok at the same distance and didn't expect much more.

Last month I learned that I can hit targets out to 100 yards and more with my SP-101 3-1/16" .357. I gained a new respect for that little shooter. Didn't take my 2-1/4" .357, but next time I will. Just curious.

 

[ftlupton]

I'm a snub shooter and all the above but I concentrate on the front sight, target is a little blurry, that's ok. trigger control, grip and front sight, good to go(plus about 10,000 rds downrange).

 

[Tellico]

Keith killed a deer at 500 yds with his .44 mag.

The story I heard was it was an Elk at 600 yards and the round was a heavily loaded .44 Special as the story predates the development of the .44 Mag. Also, I understand he fired all 6 rounds at the Elk and managed to hit it but I don't recall with how many of the rounds.

It was a mule deer. The range was 600 yards, and the gun was a new S&W .44 Magnum 6 1/2 inch. Refer to "Hell, I Was There," by Elmer Keith.

600 yds is correct. Elmer was also prone and hit the deer twice out of four shots. It had been wounded by Elmers hunting partner.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=34 Copy of story by Elmer.

 

[Tommy Kelly]

I do a lot of plinking and for some strange reason I shoot a shorter barreled gun better than I do a longer one. The books and a lot of people I know say a longer sight radius is better but I have always found my best shooting with a handgun is with a shorter barrel. Most of my single actions are the 4 5/8" I have several 7.5" ones but shoot the shorter ones better. I have a alaskan 454 and have a 480 7.5 being cut down to alaskan size. I guess it might be my old bad eyes or something but my 454 alaskan at 65 yds I can put most shots inside a paper plate. When I bought my 500 S&W I got the 4" and love it it's a great shooter. My vision is bad and has been all my life. I have a vision with correction that is 20/30 left eye and 20/400 right eye and guess what I shoot right handed unless I am sitting at a shooting bench then I will switch over and shoot left handed naturally its awkward to hold a gun left handed for me in the field I grew up shooting right handed and it's natural to me. With a scoped rifle I run my scopes up to the top end of the power range and do fine

 

[WESHOOT2]

Short-barreled revolvers very often exhibit superb mechanical accuracy due to the short stiff tube.

Practical accuracy can suffer from the light weight / minimal sight radius.

 

[noquarter]

I agree with what's been said so far. I prefer a snub nose in the pocket as my carry gun. I find that the problem with snub nose accuracy is not that any new skills are needed, but that errors in the application of existing skills are magnified by the small grips and light weight of the snub nose. After you get grips that are comfortable and provide a secure, consistent hold and a good, smooth trigger action, I would focus on the moment when the trigger 'breaks'. The sudden drop in pressure causes the gun to rotate. Since most revolvers have 8-12# triggers (DA), the force is the same for a GP100 or an LCR. The LCR, having less mass, will rotate further and faster.
Finally, I read in one of NYPD Detective Jim Cirillo's books that he had short, fat fingers and had to hold his revolver almost sideways in his hand. He was criticized by range masters for bad form, but he was a champion shot. Watch how the gun reacts to your grip and trigger and do what keeps the sight on the target. Don't get hung up on someone elses definition of good form.
I figure I will get really good in another 100k rounds or so. Until then I just have to force myself to go shooting. Good luck with the snubby.

 

[Geoff Timm]

Practice, practice, practice.
Geoff
Who notes that's how you get to Carnegie Hall as well.

 

[snappy]

There used to be a video of Jerry Miculek shooting a snubnose on the S&W website. His grip position was modified for the smaller frame/grip by bringing the weak hand thumb over and across the backstrap and pushing down/forward on the strong hand thumb knuckle, (rather than having it lie along side the frame and strong hand thumb on the left side of the revolver). I tried that and immediately gained better control from shot to shot.

 

[TRanger]

There used to be a video of Jerry Miculek shooting a snubnose on the S&W website. His grip position was modified for the smaller frame/grip by bringing the weak hand thumb over and across the backstrap and pushing down/forward on the strong hand thumb knuckle, (rather than having it lie along side the frame and strong hand thumb on the left side of the revolver). I tried that and immediately gained better control from shot to shot.

I've used that grip since having it shown to me by an old PPC shooter as a kid. It works.

 

[woodsy]

Well, since you also posted this topic on the THR forum, I'll repeat my two cents here: "Hands down, a laser-illuminating "sight", such as Crimson Trace, LaserMax, LaserLyte, etc. Thus is eliminated the short-radius sight problem."

 

[meshugunner]

On a handgun trigger control is everything. The sights dont matter as much ( I didn't say they don't matter ) until you get out to 25yds perhaps. I am guessing that a longer barrel helps stabilize a gun and dampen any tendency of the trigger to knock it off target. Meaning that snubbies are more sensitive to flaws in the trigger press.

My experience with snubbies ( and it's rather limited) is is that I get the same groups as my other guns at 7 & 10 yds which is what I shoot mostly. At these ranges I dont think the short sight radius matters at all.

Bear in mind that Mundy's & Miculek's guns are probably highly refined, especially the action. Both are expert gunsmiths. I imagine too that the ammo they use has been carefully hand loaded or selected.

Not that this explains their amazing shooting but it's one factor.

 

[Snake45]

Note that some shooters do better with the short sight radius. Properly focusing on the front, the rear isn't quite as fuzzy as it will be with a longer barrel, and also "trembling" and shake and so forth seem less with a short sight radius. This is all completely psychological, of course, but sometimes psychological factors really can help your shooting. :wink:

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Some snubbies are inherently very accurate. The 2" S&W Model 15 is often regarded as such. No doubt the one I have is exemplary, often outshooting a 4" version of the same. As mentioned, the short, stiff heavy tube may dampen barrel harmonics. I also find my 2" SP101s to be very accurate, especially the one I recently acquired chambered in 38 Special when I shoot 38-44S&W equivalent handloads in it. As mentioned, the short, stiff heavy tube may dampen barrel harmonics. I can't think of a common mass market barrel configuration that would dampen potential harmonics much better than the profile of an SP101's barrel.

From a rest, most snubbies can shoot well, if you know how to shoo=t properly from rest. A lot of people don't.

From a practical rather than inherent accuracy perspective, I think many shooters make two big mistakes with snubbies: poor grip consistency, and ...even more of an issue...anticipation of recoil and blast (~flinch).

The short tubes provide plenty of the latter compared to longer barrel versions. Unless you are a very disciplined shooter with good follow through, those become significant factors. Watch someone shoot 38 Specials in a snubbie. They can usually handle it well enough both from a bench position and off hand. Then give 'em the equivalent in 357Mag and watch what happens. Unless they are a well trained and disciplined shooter, accuracy usually suffers. This despite the fact that the one revolver or load may be more accurate than the other when shot from a rested position. I have fun demonstrating this with a 2" Model 686. Shooting 38s is no problem for most people, 357s are. Yet the gun shows much better accuracy with the 357 JHP load from a bench than it does with the 38 Special LSWC load. Most of the "accuracy" problems seem to develop after the first couple of shots.

 

[mohavesam]

BE the bullet, not the gun.

One of the most consistently accurate revolvers I've ever owned was a 2 3/4" Security Six. Oh yeah, it fit my hand like a second index finger, and I shot it five days a week! I could hit a liter bottle at 50 strides first shot. And that's the one that counts.

The scariest day I had with it was when a shaved-head gym-ninja jumped out of his car at a light, and stormed back to my truck daring me to step out (guess he thought I was too close to his monthly payment's bumper?) I drew my blued snubbie and had it aimed below the windowsill, knowing that's I'd lose the gun if I had to
I really liked that gun...

 

[darkwater67]

Another plug for Grant Cunningham's Gun Digest Book of the Revolver...he says on snubbies that trigger control is critical, but also the sights can be improved to make the sight picture more accurate. With a shorter sight radius, errors in aligning them are more magnified than in a longer sight radius, so customized sights by makers such as Bowen can improve accuracy.

 

[stantheman86]

+1 for the above, watching guys like Miculek with their finely tuned guns, and the fact that they shoot more in a year than most of us do in a lifetime makes DA shooting look easy.

Take the guy who shoots 100 rounds a year, maybe........under stress, having to shoot his snub .38 in self defense in DA and he'll be lucky to score a hit at ranges above 10 yards.

It has been proven that shorter barreled revolvers are more mechanically accurate when fired from a Ransom Rest than longer barreled models. You just don't get as much velocity, especially with .357's.

The reason guns like 8 3/8" barreled S&W Model 14's were popular for Bullseye shooting was the sight radius.


Watch the YouTube video of the guy popping balloons at 200 yards with a S&W j-frame and it will make you believe.........snub revolvers don't have to be "point blank" weapons.

With practice pretty much anyone has the skills to be a good shooter. If I got to shoot everyday I could probably hit milk jugs at 200 yards with a NAA Mini .22 revolver, once I learned the trajectory, fired 1000's of rounds and it became muscle memory. Give me 100,000 rounds, my SP101 and the time to do it and I'll show you an excellent snub revolver shooter lol

The fact is, Ransom Rests aside, most people won't notice the accuracy difference. It is mostly sight radius and recoil.

My wife was shooting my SP101 with standard Rem UMC 130 gr. 38's, and she gets the first 1 or 2 in the black, and then the remaining 3 are all over the place. She starts to anticipate recoil after the first few shots and that's why accuracy suffers. She did MUCH much better with my 6" Security Six and the same standard 130 gr. .38's. It may not be much to me, but for a 110 lb. lady, less muzzle blast and recoil means a lot to shootability.

 

[Lee Martin]

Practice. The technique you use on a 7" revolver shouldn't be any different that shooting a snub. Yes, the sight radius is less, but the fundamentals are the same.