S&W loses Army pistol competition

[GunnyGene]

This is gonna hurt them.

Smith & Wesson notified investors Friday that the M&P will not advance to the next phase of testing in the Defense Department’s mission to replace the Army’s M9.

With only a handful of manufacturers vying to be the Army’s new Modular Handgun System, Smith & Wesson is the first company to publicly get the boot.

The Massachusetts gun maker campaigned heavily for the contract, even partnering with defense giant General Dynamics in 2014 for an added boost. GenDyn signed on to provide barrels for the M&P and also lend its expertise navigating the bureaucratic process.

“They (GenDyn) bring a level of skill and knowledge that we did not have,” Smith & Wesson Chief Executive Officer James Debney said during a third quarter meeting in March. “Obviously, we’re a good partner as well because we bring what our core competency is, is that we can design and manufacture great handguns.”

Smith & Wesson investors have anxiously awaited news on the contract valued at $580 million. During a meeting earlier this month, MHS questions cropped up continually as investor’s aimed to pinpoint Smith & Wesson’s standing within the Army’s process. At that time Debney reported no movement, but said he was confident a win would boost the gun maker’s authority.

“The professional community is extremely important to us, as I’ve said before. It holds us to a much higher standard than if we were just, say, a consumer product business,” said Debney during the company’s first quarter investor’s call. “It certainly gives your product a lot of credibility if it is used, adopted and well-regarded by that professional community because the consumer does pay attention to that.”

http://www.guns.com/2016/09/26/smith-wesson-mp-will-not-replace-m9-as-armys-sidearm/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=57e914cf04d3016b606919fe&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

 

[vito]

Who remains in the game?

 

[gunzo]

This ^^^^^

 

[PriseDeFer]

Right. A very big, very complicated game constructed to hold the maximum number of fiefdoms. Process uber alles.

 

[Cholo]

Who remains in the game?

Um, you have to actually read the article :wink:

IHS Jane reported in May that the M&P was a top contender, alongside the Beretta APX, CZ P-09, FN Five-Seven, Glock 17 and 22, and Sig Sauer P320.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

I think there is a lot more politics in this than their should be. I've got 4 M&P's and they are sweet guns.

 

[contender]

Have you ever noticed that they seem to go out of their way to select a company NOT owned & run by Americans? I smell "politics."

 

[Rei40c]

Have you ever noticed that they seem to go out of their way to select a company NOT owned & run by Americans? I smell "politics."

Yes it seems to be the same old story over and over again. I don't know if you recall or even followed the fly-off competition years back the Air Force had between the YF-22 Raptor and YF-23 Widow. Just about everyone agreed the F-23 was superior. The F-23 team was sure it was in the bag...

But some very powerful and well connected people associated with the F-22 project pulled strings and won the day. They could have just saved everyone the time of the flyoff in hindsight.

 

[GunnyGene]

Have you ever noticed that they seem to go out of their way to select a company NOT owned & run by Americans? I smell "politics."

Yes it seems to be the same old story over and over again. I don't know if you recall or even followed the fly-off competition years back the Air Force had between the YF-22 Raptor and YF-23 Widow. Just about everyone agreed the F-23 was superior. The F-23 team was sure it was in the bag...

But some very powerful and well connected people associated with the F-22 project pulled strings and won the day. They could have just saved everyone the time of the flyoff in hindsight.

This is common. I was on the Boeing Gold Team for the new transport plane competition with McDonnell Douglas in the '90's. Boeing was fielding a 747 against the C-17. What the public didn't know is that we (both companies) knew Douglas had it in the bag, but it didn't matter because Boeing and Douglas had already worked a deal where Boeing would buy Douglas, and the Douglas CEO would become the merged companies CEO with a huge golden parachute. Big business, billions of dollars. Everybody got what they wanted. Watched it happen.

 

[Rei40c]

Have you ever noticed that they seem to go out of their way to select a company NOT owned & run by Americans? I smell "politics."

Yes it seems to be the same old story over and over again. I don't know if you recall or even followed the fly-off competition years back the Air Force had between the YF-22 Raptor and YF-23 Widow. Just about everyone agreed the F-23 was superior. The F-23 team was sure it was in the bag...

But some very powerful and well connected people associated with the F-22 project pulled strings and won the day. They could have just saved everyone the time of the flyoff in hindsight.

This is common. I was on the Boeing Gold Team for the new transport plane competition with McDonnell Douglas in the '90's. Boeing was fielding a 747 against the C-17. What the public didn't know is that we (both companies) knew Douglas had it in the bag, but it didn't matter because Boeing and Douglas had already worked a deal where Boeing would buy Douglas, and the Douglas CEO would become the merged companies CEO with a huge golden parachute. Big business, billions of dollars. Everybody got what they wanted. Watched it happen.

That's neat you where involved with that, I remember reading about the C-17 when it was just a proposal and I seem to recall some doubt as to if it would actually be built at all. A while back I found a picture of one of the remaining YF-23's rusting away in some open hanger out west in the desert. It was in really bad shape, crab grass was growing out of the engine nozzles, paints mostly gone now. It was dented as if teenagers had been crawling all over it vandalizing it. It's been completely neglected. Very sad to see. I believe there where two prototypes built but I'm unsure what happened to the second. It was probably scrapped.

 

[mohavesam]

Ruger was excluded from the start because they do not have a certificetion/acreditation to ISO9001 et al, nor a quality system compliant to same. We're not surprised here at RF.

S&W was excluded because they simply couldn't match the state-funded palm-greasing that the EU coughed up fronting Glock and Sig.

Don't forget this is still the Obama administration making the calls, and crushing American gun makers is still the end game.

Follow the money.

 

[mistermills357]

Poor S&W, they have fallen so far and they may not get back to where they were in dominance.
There are just too many companies out there now; and the competition is cutthroat.

 

[contender]

Sadly,, if we ever got into a serious major conflict,,, and we needed arms,,, the good old USA would be dependent upon a foreign company. Kind of a flip-flop from the WWII days.

 

[BlkHawk73]

Maybe if domestic manufacturers (and their customers) were more concerned about reliability and functionality and not flashy, show-off stuff, they'd have American made products for our troops. Gotta go with the better product regardless of it's origins.

 

[Cholo]

Poor S&W, they have fallen so far and they may not get back to where they were in dominance.

Say what?

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/16/investing/smith-and-wesson-earnings-orlando/

 

[NixieTube]

Sorry to hear about S&W being shown the door. Massachusetts could have used the boost.

Aside: I'm on the Beretta website looking at the APX - it's amazing how much the grip frame and especially the "beavertail" areas resemble the SR9, and I read this:

"The lightweight frame housing is made of fiberglass reinforced technopolymer."

Whew. First it was "plastic." Then it was "polymer." Now it's "technopolymer."

What, exactly is a "technopolymer?" Does it come with a Moby MP3? When we write gun commentary will we all have to start using "technopolymer" instead of just "polymer" or "plastic" if this gun wins the competition?

http://www.berettadefensetechnologies.com/pistols/apx-pistol

 

[BlkHawk73]

No different than anything plastic or black being automatically "tactical". :roll: Just marketing that the weak minded swallow right up.

 

[Leucoandro]

The Glocks have probably been disqualified as well because they don't have a modular fire control unit as required.


Charlie

 

[Rick Courtright]

What, exactly is a "technopolymer?" Does it come with a Moby MP3? When we write gun commentary will we all have to start using "technopolymer" instead of just "polymer" or "plastic" if this gun wins the competition?

Hi,

Didn't Ol' Willie set the stage when he suggested "A rose by any other name...?" That said, a plastic by any other name will still be a...

PLASTIC!

And JMB knew just the right amount of it to use in a firearm, too. ;) With that, I need to go to the store, so I'd best get the dinosaur saddled up and go for a ride.

Rick C