I have a general question that pertains to large-frame Ruger five-shot 45 Colts (or the five-shot 454 Casull Bisley model). Since this load data exceeds the “Ruger only” 45 Colt loads for handguns, would it be the same as the rifle load data, or is it a matter of increasing the “Ruger only” data by 10%?
Ruger Five-Shot 45 Colt (Load Data Question)
- Thread starter seasterl
- Start date
OP
Thanks, Tim! That’s a really great article and I’m surprised I never saw that one before. (Sometimes it feels like I’ve read everything written about the 45 Colt and then I find a new article.). Sierra gives a 14,000 psi load for their 185gr JHP bullet and their tech told me it was tough enough to be used for a lot more pressure, I’d really like a nice load for that bullet for “Ruger-only” 30,000 psi and (preferably) five-shot large-frame conversions. The only caveat is that I’ll be using a taper crimp die which might get some bullet pull under recoil (maybe), but it’s going in a heavy ten-inch custom five-shot conversion.
EDIT: I did find data for 12.0gr of W231 for a 185gr jacketed bullet for use in T/C from Hodgdon.
EDIT: I did find data for 12.0gr of W231 for a 185gr jacketed bullet for use in T/C from Hodgdon.
needsmostuff
Blackhawk
seasterl said:
Why would you be looking at light bullets and fast powders for a heavy 45 colt load. Never gonna get there thataway .
True happiness lies in full cases of bulky slow powders in that arena , but it is not gonna be well documented . Too many guys will stuff them in a cowboy clone gun ,,,,for a while.
Look for loads with much heavier bullets and H110/296, Acc.#9 , 4227, 2400 or the like.
OP
needsmostuff said:
Thanks for the post. I appreciate the comments. The rationale as to “why” is the same reason why we have load data for a 200gr bullet for the 460S&W and a 275gr in the 500S&W (... from Barnes). As long as it’s done safely, which is what I’m looking for (safe loads for a five-shot 45 Colt), one need not justify why he wants to do it. It’s like asking why he has so many guns. Not every gun is a tool for a specific game animal or intruder. Velocity, rifling twist rates, and charge density aside, I agree that the load I listed would not be my idea of an accurate load due to charge density, and I’d prefer a load using H110, AA No. 9, or AA1680, so that’s why I posted the thread to see if there are any loads out there for > 30,000psi 45 Colt using lightweight bullets. Another reason was to make more use of bullets I buy in bulk that can be used for 45ACP, and that’s what got me thinking of fast, lightweight bullets. The idea seems to work with other magnum cartridges, so why not apply it to the 45 Colt if it’s “magnum-ized”?
needsmostuff
Blackhawk
O , the landmine of trying to answer someone's questions simply. But if I got to explain my answer.
Your original post mentions increasing Ruger only loads by 10% . This is a not great blanket rule,,,ever. But does indicate you are searching for over the top , heavy loads.
No one in their right mind will post such loads and no one in their right mind would take such advice off the internet.
Not saying you can't get there but saying you have to get there yourself. Work up slowly ,with YOUR gun. I'm betting you will quit before you get to the to top if you have no real need for that kind of heavy load. It can get brutal.
Me thinks you misunderstood my "why".
That was not a why do you want. I understand we wants what we wants .
That was a "why" would you take that route to best utilize a 5 shot Ruger and get heavy loads.
I have never gotten true magnum velocities out of slow or even mid burn rate powders that could not be improved on by high density loads of slow powders .
W231 is definitely NOT a magnum powder.
Not even gonna get into ACP bullets for heavy 45 colt/454 Casull loads .
Your original post mentions increasing Ruger only loads by 10% . This is a not great blanket rule,,,ever. But does indicate you are searching for over the top , heavy loads.
No one in their right mind will post such loads and no one in their right mind would take such advice off the internet.
Not saying you can't get there but saying you have to get there yourself. Work up slowly ,with YOUR gun. I'm betting you will quit before you get to the to top if you have no real need for that kind of heavy load. It can get brutal.
Me thinks you misunderstood my "why".
That was not a why do you want. I understand we wants what we wants .
That was a "why" would you take that route to best utilize a 5 shot Ruger and get heavy loads.
I have never gotten true magnum velocities out of slow or even mid burn rate powders that could not be improved on by high density loads of slow powders .
W231 is definitely NOT a magnum powder.
Not even gonna get into ACP bullets for heavy 45 colt/454 Casull loads .
OP
Thanks again for the comments. To minimize confusion, I’m not looking for “heavy” loads as in heavy bullets, but rather “higher-pressure” loads which could apply to heavy or lightweight bullets. The example given for the W231 data I posted was from published data for 45 Colt for T/C and was all that I could find for the 185gr. Again, I prefer the slower powders, too. My hope is that someone here can point me to articles like the Lee Martin article like Tim did above. (It just didn’t have what I was looking for.). There probably aren’t many articles published on this topic, so I wasn’t sure how builders were arriving at their data and if they share it. The questions posed as to whether they were using rifle data or pistol data that’s +10% over (for 30,000psi) for slow powders, or... I’m just trying to understand. Flattened primers, web stretch, chronograph result plots, and sticky extractions are just some tale-tell signs, but equally important is which primer to use for the starting point. Everyone thinks magnum primers only, but then I learn that standard primers also work but dramatically lowers the pressure, too. Anyway, thanks for the advice.
The idea for me is to create a flat-shooting setup that’s accurate over a fairly long range that requires minimal rear sight elevation adjustment. I’ve been there and done that with several setups and cartridges in IHMSA, but since I got out, I was wanting to do something similar with a 45 Colt but in a gun with the flexibility that only a 45 Colt brings. I already have this in 44 Mag, but then I thought,... why not a 45 Colt?! Didn’t one of the Kennedy brothers say something along those lines? So the beauty is that, if I can pull this off, it won’t be a FA or a custom T/C or an XP, but would be a Ruger sporting a 10” in five-cylinder 45 Colt. A screaming 185gr JHP just sounds so much better. If this works and I get bullet pull, then I’d go up to 200gr with a crimp groove or hard cast. I mean, what’s left to do with revolvers?
The idea for me is to create a flat-shooting setup that’s accurate over a fairly long range that requires minimal rear sight elevation adjustment. I’ve been there and done that with several setups and cartridges in IHMSA, but since I got out, I was wanting to do something similar with a 45 Colt but in a gun with the flexibility that only a 45 Colt brings. I already have this in 44 Mag, but then I thought,... why not a 45 Colt?! Didn’t one of the Kennedy brothers say something along those lines? So the beauty is that, if I can pull this off, it won’t be a FA or a custom T/C or an XP, but would be a Ruger sporting a 10” in five-cylinder 45 Colt. A screaming 185gr JHP just sounds so much better. If this works and I get bullet pull, then I’d go up to 200gr with a crimp groove or hard cast. I mean, what’s left to do with revolvers?
JStacy
Blackhawk
questions often only make questions . The velocity range a bullet is accurate in is often not wide. I too shot silhouette but hunter not long range. I used a Sierra 71 grain 32 auto bullet in my 10" 30 carbine and was able to get 2000 FPS with the bullet , one hole at 40 meters but could not reliably hit a sight in target at 100 meters. Short bullets loose velocity very fast and outside of their optimum velocity range are not accurate. I shoot 45 colt cases in my 454 Casul using a H4227 load and the 263 grain Keith bullet , I cast my own.
I have shot 11 grains of unique under a 185 hard cast bullet and got good accuracy at short ranges but anything the bullets tend to lead.
If you are going to shoot lead bullets at high speed they either need to have a gas check or be pure linotype or all you will get is barrel leading and poor accuracy. Good luck with your experiments.
I have shot 11 grains of unique under a 185 hard cast bullet and got good accuracy at short ranges but anything the bullets tend to lead.
If you are going to shoot lead bullets at high speed they either need to have a gas check or be pure linotype or all you will get is barrel leading and poor accuracy. Good luck with your experiments.
