Rebuilding a fire damaged (destroyed) gun?

[Quattroclick]

I have an old model blackhawk that was destroyed in a fire, but for sentimental reasons, I would like to rebuild the gun. It was heated to the point that the aluminum grip frame was heat damaged (partially melted), all the springs are shot, and the screws so far don't want to budge, and the hammer is stuck. My guess is that assuming that the gun will come apart, it will need everything from heat treat to new cylinder, barrel, grip frame, polish, reblue etc. I am guessing that my best bet would be to buy a donor gun for all the parts and move on from there.

Does anyone have any experience restoring this much of a lost cause?

 

[roylt]

Sounds like a lost cause to me but with money and time it is said anything can be done.

Is this something Ruger would have old stock parts for? Maybe they could duplicate the frame. (serial number)

 

[kywoodwrkr]

I have an old model blackhawk that was destroyed in a fire, but for sentimental reasons, I would like to rebuild the gun. It was heated to the point that the aluminum grip frame was heat damaged (partially melted), all the springs are shot, and the screws so far don't want to budge, and the hammer is stuck. My guess is that assuming that the gun will come apart, it will need everything from heat treat to new cylinder, barrel, grip frame, polish, reblue etc. I am guessing that my best bet would be to buy a donor gun for all the parts and move on from there.

Does anyone have any experience restoring this much of a lost cause?

Had afire in 2008, so you have my understanding.
I'd first use electrolysis to 'derust' the steel parts, whole thing as is.
As an alternative to electrolysis, I'd get some honest to goodness Ballistol and keep applying this to the pistol with a stiff bristled brush.
The Ballistol was designed to be used on black powder rifles and corrosive primers so has excellent cleaning capabilities.
Was developed for German army WW1.
I bought a five gallon can for my fire rescues and am very happy I did.
Nothing I could find would cut the black crud on both the metal and the stocks.
Ballistol is not harmful to plastic, wood, metal etc etc.
Got my supply through, I think it was, Wiseman Trading.
Googled it and:
http://www.wisementrading.com/hunting/ballistol.htm
Those who have not had a fire do not understand the necessity for the therapy obtained rescuing these has.
Good luck.
Contact me if you would like to compare attack plans.

 

[rugerguy]

we've refinished fire damged guns over the years at our shops and would take a 'case by case" (gun by gun) inspection to determine just how far and how much can be done...if it got that hot that it partially "melted" the grip frame, OR charred the grips off the gun, the heat treat is gone, and yes would take a replacement of the critical parts, mainly the cylinder and all the springs to be replaced, the barrel unless "warped" would be OK, and all the other parts could be cannabalized from , as you say "donor gun"..........the cylinder frame (and maybe the barrel), as well as the loading gate would be the basis and build around it............ new parts it would look and work like new.................

sorry about the fire, thats sad , but we;ve even done some guns from flood damage, as well 'stolen' guns thrown in a river AND recovered later..........thats why its called "restoration"

 

[Tellico]

Soak it in Kroil and the screws may come out. I use a small impact driver and "light" taps on it vs just torque on a screwdriver. JMO.

 

[Quattroclick]

Thanks for the tips. I sprayed the gun with penetrating oil several times over a period of months, no help yet on the screws. Someone suggested soaking in antifreeze, and I figured what the heck. I'll try that for a couple of weeks, if no success, I'll get some kroil. If I can get the gun apart, that will be a big part of the battle.

 

[DeletedMember275]

Try soaking it in a gallon of kerosene. I've been told that is one of the best penetrating oils available, and it's relatively inexpensive, too.

 

[flatgate]

The aluminum Grip Frame was a twisted, melted mass, as was the aluminum ejector housing. The Loading Gate was broken by the force of the loaded cartridges "cooking off". The front sight is barely hanging on.....

I pieced it back together and call it my "wall hanger".

flatgate

 

[Cooler]

You will need to have the frame, cylinder and barrel Rockwell tested and compare that data with a non-damaged firearm. The Rockwell tests will tell you the relative hardness of the steel.

I suspect that the steel has been annealed by the heat and will be softer than the original.

The problem with Rockwell testing is that it leaves a tiny mark on the steel, so you might not want to do this to a "good" gun.

I think this gun, if restored, should be for "decorative" purposes only, and not used with live ammo.

The bigger risk is that the hot steel was quenched by a fireman's hose and the parts are substantially harder than the original. In that case the parts could be quite brittle and break apart when used. The softer versions would probably bend or wear early. But the harder version could lead to a catastrophic failure.

 

[Quattroclick]

My thought was to get the gun color case hardened, or at very least find someone that is familiar with re heat treating the frame. It's likely that everything else would be replaced. Unfortunately, the last time I ran across a likely 30 carbine donor gun, I didn't have the money on hand.......

 

[Cooler]

My thought was to get the gun color case hardened, or at very least find someone that is familiar with re heat treating the frame. It's likely that everything else would be replaced. Unfortunately, the last time I ran across a likely 30 carbine donor gun, I didn't have the money on hand.......

Case hardening is a method that allows low carbon steel to have a hard wear-surface. The low carbon steel it placed in a cyanide bath. The carbon in the cyanide penetrates the surface of the steel. The longer the steel is in the cyanide, the deeper the carbon penetrates. The parts can then be heat treated. Only the surface gets hard; the underlying steel remains soft. There are advantages to this. It allows small sections of steel to have a very hard surface without the risk of cracking the part. A gun hammer would be a good choice. Without an adequate amount of carbon in the steel you cannot harden the steel. Low carbon steel (C1008 - C1010) cannot be heat treated. The usual point where heat treating is attempted is at C1035 and above. Files are somewhere in the C1080+ range. The hammer of your gun was probably free machining steel which is C1003 to C1006. With the case hardening they are able to make the surface very hard while the interior is still maleable.

But case hardening other parts will not resolve the annealing that went on during the fire or any hardening that occured during any water quench.

Any parts that were originally case hardened can be case hardened again. But if the frame was a forging, then the annealing will have strength implications. I am not an engineer so I cannot predict what the changes would be, but I doubt I would knowingly fire a weapon that had been through a fire.

 

[Quattroclick]

I get where you are coming from Cooler. I would make sure that someone familiar with the metallurgy of Ruger revolvers did the work. I see no reason that the frame couldn't be brought back to it's original strength, or something close. However, I haven't found anything on the internet concerning the heat treatment of blackhawks. Even just knowing the steel used to build the gun would go a long way toward determining the appropriate course of action.

Like I said, it's a sentimental thing, and certainly not the most efficient use of my money. Obviously I would be better off waiting until a nice used gun comes along. Actually, I will probably need a used gun to pull off the restoration.

 

[flatgate]

4140 IIRC.

"The problem with Rockwell testing is that it leaves a tiny mark on the steel, so you might not want to do this to a "good" gun. "

Remove the grip frame from a Freedom Arms revolver and you'll see where the receiver was Rockwell Tested.

flatgate

 

[firecaptain]

If you are serious about restoring it, give Doug Turnbull a call. He will make it like new.

 

[tenx]

Ruger used to offer a replacement program on fire damaged and blown up guns, not likely for older 3 screw guns and such. A friend had an oversight on his powder selection (this was in the mid 1980s) and if memory serves correct thought he was loading 296 but grabbed the 231 can. Blew out several chambers and tweaked the frame. Said it was the only time he had a revolver recoil sideways. Fortunaly no one was hurt. Ruger replaced the gun at a considerable discount. So far he hasn't repeated the incident. Once is one too many.

 

[rugerguy]

trouble with the "cast" frames of the Rugers, they use a 4140 chrome moly alloy and being its a 'complex" metal, cannot "case HARDEN", to the normal specs of other metals, it will become 'brittle' and possibly fracture...Turnbull and a FEW others use a "proprietary' ( to them) form of "case COLORING", for the "effect" but NOT the hardening,we've seen some done years ago and yes, they do become brittle, and yes, they DO break apart............wish I was able to get ,keep and take pictures of the "results" but this was long before digital cameras and our getting on the internet............
Good luck with your 'project' and let us know how its coming along.....

 

[jmcghee]

Do not soak in antifreeze. any penetrating oil will work some take longer than others,kerosene ,diesel fuel(heating fuel same thing) 0r automatic trans fluid work also

 

[modrifle3]

Whether Chrome moly steel or tool steel the tempering process if done correctly will result in a certain hardness reguardless of past hardening. Aside from distortion, the only thing the fire should have done is remove or add temper depending on how the steel cooled. The proper facility can reheat treat the frame but you may nolonger have a square frame as it is.

 

[jsu]

I had a ruger blackhawk stainless rev. That went through a housefire, a local smith said he couldn't get the five gripframe screws out. So did it myself, i carefully heated each screw with the smallest brazing tip that i had. I removed them all replaced all springs and a few other parts. I remotely fired full house .357 loads through it,it stayed together so now I just shoot. 38 special in it to be safe. I don't recommend this for your gun but this may help you restore it somewhat. Ps.heat the screws they will break loose.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Important topic, with informative input. Melted aluminum grip frame and dead springs sing a song of substantial heat.

"I don't know why anyone would do a lousy job of heat treatment," said William B. Ruger during a discussion of revolvers. "It costs just as much to do a poor job as it does to do it right."

I rather doubt that "the Old Man" would consider a house fire, with quenching by fire hose, to be a good heat treatment.

I have seen guns, with the grips burned but springs intact, restored to service. A Ruger so exposed and restored might prove much stronger than the first revolvers made for the 1899 .38 Special, which cartridge might be the sensible limit for a compromised .357 magnum.

* Magnaflux the cylinder?
* Would a hose-quenched cylinder/barrel/frame cheat the Rockwell test?

However you slice it, I wouldn't carry a "restored" fire gun.
David Bradshaw