Question about carrying loaded full time.

[Hektik]

I've read quite a few threads on carrying locked and loaded all the time with one in the chamber. It's an excellent idea, I agree. That is the way I carry. What I haven't seen mentioned though is if this has an effect on the striker spring wear since it will be compressed all of the time. Also the same for the magazine. So my question, Is there any worry about spring wear in the striker and/or magazine from being compressed all of the time? Would wear on the striker spring cause concern for possible light strikes?

My apologies if this has been mentioned before. I searched for a couple of days reading threads and didnt come across this particular question. I may not be using the right key words.

 

[boltons75]

First question, what gun are you carrying? If it's an sr9/40/c, then no, the striker is not fully compressing the spring. It's only partially compressed, when you pull the trigger, you will notice the striker indicator move back, that is when the spring is fully compressed. But if your carrying another gun, I'm not sure if it would affect the spring. But your better off having one in the chamber ready to go if the need arises.

 

[dwd]

don't worry about mag springs. I've read where 1911 mags have been loaded for 15-20 years and work flawlessly when they are finally tested.

 

[98Redline]

I don't think I would worry about the striker spring too much. If you are concerned then install a new spring every couple of years if nothing more than to keep your mind at ease.

Regarding the magazine springs, I have had a different experience with respect to mag springs. I have a 9mm that served as a backup in my nightstand to my CCW which lays on top.
I had a couple of loaded mags in the drawer with the gun that did not get shot for a few years. Eventually I decided it was time to just give that gun a good onceover and lo and behold, after 5 or 6 rounds were stripped out of the mag, the follower just stayed down and the top round was not pressed to the feed lips. The rounds rattled around in the mag like pennies in a coffee can. The follower was free to move and was not binding. When disassembled it was found that both magazine springs had taken a set and were now well shorter than the normal length. I am sure that if I had shot those particular mags more often I would have experienced feeing issues due to the weakening spring long before it got to the point it did.

I guess what I am saying is, take your CCW out regularly and shoot it. If it continues to run well, load it back up and carry it until your next range session. If you experience an issue....even a minor one, dig in and find out what the issue is and address it immediately.

 

[roylt]

What brand of mag was that?

 

[Hektik]

Thanks for the replies guys! By the way, I'm carrying an SR9c as my EDC. I do shoot it regularly. Just put 250 rds through it last week and I'm ready to go back already, haha.

That does sound right though. If there were to be any noticeable wear it would take a long time and I would notice beforehand from shooting it regularly and be able to replace the parts.

Thanks Again!

 

[desertrat]

Can't speak for the mag spring wear but if you'll notice, the striker spring in the "cocked & locked" mode is only slightly preloaded.
Pulling the trigger is when the striker spring compresses with most of its travel, so you need not worry about that spring (in this model anyway).

 

[Verndog]

If you want to ease the possibility of mag spring memory you can leave them loaded 1 under capacity. Ever notice how cramming that 17th round in is always the hardest? That last round compresses the spring to it's utmost limit. I leave my carry mag at 9 with 1 in chamber, and 17's are loaded @16. Doubt most people would ever miss 1 round.

 

[22/45 Fan]

Regarding the magazine springs, I have had a different experience with respect to mag springs. I have a 9mm that served as a backup in my nightstand to my CCW which lays on top.
I had a couple of loaded mags in the drawer with the gun that did not get shot for a few years. Eventually I decided it was time to just give that gun a good onceover and lo and behold, after 5 or 6 rounds were stripped out of the mag, the follower just stayed down and the top round was not pressed to the feed lips. The rounds rattled around in the mag like pennies in a coffee can. The follower was free to move and was not binding. When disassembled it was found that both magazine springs had taken a set and were now well shorter than the normal length. I am sure that if I had shot those particular mags more often I would have experienced feeing issues due to the weakening spring long before it got to the point it did.

I guess what I am saying is, take your CCW out regularly and shoot it. If it continues to run well, load it back up and carry it until your next range session. If you experience an issue....even a minor one, dig in and find out what the issue is and address it immediately.

I don't know what happened to the springs in the magazines you describe but it is highly unusual and not the result of just leaving them compressed. A properly designed spring made of a suitable steel (as are all Ruger OEM springs) WILL NOT weaken with time if compressed within its design range. Either your springs were very poorly made or something else damaged them. Unloading magazines to "rest" the springs is a fallacy.

 

[Hektik]

Thanks for the input guys!

That is the the way I have been carrying, Verndog. Just 9 with 1 in the chamber instead of 10+1. Good to know that Im on the right track. Just wanted to make sure.

Thanks Again.

 

[Verndog]

Unloading magazines to "rest" the springs is a fallacy.

I would disagree with that. Go look at the back end of a 40 year old car to see that under weight, all springs WILL eventually sag. Anything mechanical that is pushed toward it's limit will not last as long as something that is not, period. It's common sense.

I am not saying they will only last 5-10 or 15 years...I'm saying they will not last as long, as compared to that 50% sprung life would be for example.

 

[JohnKSa]

I guess what I am saying is, take your CCW out regularly and shoot it. If it continues to run well, load it back up and carry it until your next range session. If you experience an issue....even a minor one, dig in and find out what the issue is and address it immediately.

EXCELLENT advice.

Most good quality magazines these days tolerate being left loaded with no trouble, however, it's always better to check occasionally than it is to find out in an emergency.

If you find that your mag springs have relaxed to the point that they're causing misfeeds, replace them with high qualty aftermarket springs. If the springs weaken again, replace them again but consider underloading the mags by a round or two in the future. It's usually the last bit of compression that's hardest on a spring.

 

[ECUfan]

I had always heard, mainly from this forum, that spring wear comes from use. Fully compressed or expanded has little impact to the springs function. Using the spring is what will ultimately wear it out.

 

[GKC]

Go look at the back end of a 40 year old car to see that under weight, all springs WILL eventually sag.

I guess that explains my mother-in-law's butt...and her's is a lot more than 40 years old! :lol:

I have read many comments on this and other forums that it's the flexing (or compression/relaxation/compression) that causes springs to lose tension or strength over time. That makes sense when you think about this: if you want to break a steel wire, like a coat hanger for example, you bend it back and forth until it heats up at the point of the bend, and then it will break.

 

[Sal1950]

Go look at the back end of a 40 year old car to see that under weight, all springs WILL eventually sag.

I guess that explains my mother-in-law's butt...and her's is a lot more than 40 years old! :lol:

I have read many comments on this and other forums that it's the flexing (or compression/relaxation/compression) that causes springs to lose tension or strength over time. That makes sense when you think about this: if you want to break a steel wire, like a coat hanger for example, you bend it back and forth until it heats up at the point of the bend, and then it will break.

Yes but "heat" is the operative word here. In the example here the wire heats up, loses it's temper, becomes brittle, and breaks. We fight the same issue in high performance-rpm engine valve springs. Once you've used the best material available, made the reciprocating parts as light as possible, and manage the rpm's are best as you can, one of the biggest controls you have is to keep as much oil flowing over the valvesprings as possible to carry away the heat...

But guys we're talking about civilian weapons here those exercise of the springs discussed is minimal. In normal use the majority should last indefinitely.
The worse cases come in some magazines. Verndog is right in his analogy to coil springs in older cars. They were underrated and overstressed and metal fatigue would set in after time. If you have to bust your thumbs to get the last couple rounds in, down load them a couple rounds if you intend to keep them loaded for long term storage.

Another spring that "can" be of concern are recoil springs mainly because some designs may bring them very close to coil bind at full compression. No way to really determine the effects of all the different variables in the wide world of weapons design, so if you shoot your semi-auto a lot it may be good practice to replace them at regular intervals.
Sal

 

[22/45 Fan]

I would disagree with that. Go look at the back end of a 40 year old car to see that under weight, all springs WILL eventually sag.

Those springs sag because of repetative compression and extension cycles from thousands and thousands of miles of being driven over bumps and holes. It's from the cycling, not from a static load. If a new car sat undriven in a garage for 40 years, the springs would act like new.

 

[Sal1950]

I would disagree with that. Go look at the back end of a 40 year old car to see that under weight, all springs WILL eventually sag.

Those springs sag because of repetative compression and extension cycles from thousands and thousands of miles of being driven over bumps and holes. It's from the cycling, not from a static load. If a new car sat undriven in a garage for 40 years, the springs would act like new.

You're half right, the springs on a car never driven would still start to sag a bit with time, just at a much slower rate. Metal fatigue would still set in over time due to the static load imposed, the speed and extent at which it would occur would occur would depend on the load imposed and the quality of the springs metal.
Sal

 

[Verndog]

... the springs on a car never driven would still start to sag a bit with time, just at a much slower rate. Metal fatigue would still set in over time due to the static load imposed, the speed and extent at which it would occur would occur would depend on the load imposed and the quality of the springs metal.
Sal

Exactly true and my main point. Yes repeated movement does add to faster wear rates, but any compression adds to wear over a relaxed spring. To sum it up, any reduction in spring pressure WILL add to spring life.

 

[Sal1950]

... the springs on a car never driven would still start to sag a bit with time, just at a much slower rate. Metal fatigue would still set in over time due to the static load imposed, the speed and extent at which it would occur would occur would depend on the load imposed and the quality of the springs metal.
Sal

Exactly true and my main point. Yes repeated movement does add to faster wear rates, but any compression adds to wear over a relaxed spring. To sum it up, any reduction in spring pressure WILL add to spring life.

Yep, exactly.
It's just that we run into these questions on springs in magazines, recoil, etc, etc; how should I store them, what are the long term effects, on and on.
Truth is no one can say exactly for sure, there are just too many variables.

In magazines, how hard is the spring stressed with a max load of rounds, what is the quality of the spring steel used, even the environment they're stored in could conceivably have an effect in the long term.
Best recommendation for long term loaded storage is what Verndog says, down load them by a round or two.

How long will your springs last, how often do they need to be replaced, etc, etc; I haven't the slightest idea and neither does anyone else. A metallurgy expert might be able to take YOUR magazine, test the spring and give you a VERY educated guess but that's as close as you'll get.

With guns in general it's my feeling that overall it's not really that much of an issue.
I have a 1911 the was built in 1917, I changed the tri-spring to improve trigger pull, but the mainspring and recoil springs have never been changed in the time I've had it, which is almost 50 years. It still runs with near 100% reliability with it's intended ball ammo. That's using a variety of magazines including a couple we got with the gun.
I have a WWII 1943 era M1 Carbine that runs perfectly with all it's original springs and magazines
I have a M1 Garrand 1944 era that runs perfectly with all it's original springs.
YMMV LOL
Sal

 

[Verndog]

With guns in general it's my feeling that overall it's not really that much of an issue.

I agree. But as they attempt to make CCW guns lighter and higher capacity they may cut spring weight to limits and cram more rounds compressing the spring toward it's limit, things can change. I by no means am implying the SR9's and C mags will only last a few years compressed or heavily used. Who knows, could be 10-20 years and a compressed mag will work fine. I've read of WW2 45's left with full mags and shot fine after 40+ years.
Me personally, I just hate cramming / pushing things to their very limit if there is really no need. I seriously doubt I'll miss 1 round in either case. But thats me, some people will go to great lengths to cram an extra round in...to each their own.

 

[Sal1950]

Me personally, I just hate cramming / pushing things to their very limit if there is really no need. I seriously doubt I'll miss 1 round in either case. But thats me, some people will go to great lengths to cram an extra round in...to each their own.

I'm with you Verndog.
But then again some guys insist if you don't CCW a weapon that carries 17+1 along with two spare full magazines your seriously under-armed.
I guess I'm in big trouble when I throw my 6+1 TCP or worse yet my 5 shot SP101 38 Spl in my pocket.
LOL
Sal

 

[Verndog]

...some guys insist if you don't CCW a weapon that carries 17+1 along with two spare full magazines your seriously under-armed...

True enough...but then again they are running with a different crowd then I am. :wink:

 

[FergusonTO35]

Uh oh, I guess I'm in serious trouble packing only my Beretta 21 loaded with Mini Mags!! :shock:

 

[22/45 Fan]

You're half right, the springs on a car never driven would still start to sag a bit with time, just at a much slower rate. Metal fatigue would still set in over time due to the static load imposed, the speed and extent at which it would occur would occur would depend on the load imposed and the quality of the springs metal.l

Acually they won't. Steel does not cold flow or creep at anything like temperatures outside a furnace and fatigue is the result of repeated flexing above a threahold stress value, not a constant load. That static 40 year old car will have exactly the same body height as it did new.

 

[Sal1950]

You're half right, the springs on a car never driven would still start to sag a bit with time, just at a much slower rate. Metal fatigue would still set in over time due to the static load imposed, the speed and extent at which it would occur would occur would depend on the load imposed and the quality of the springs metal.l

Acually they won't. Steel does not cold flow or creep at anything like temperatures outside a furnace and fatigue is the result of repeated flexing above a threahold stress value, not a constant load. That static 40 year old car will have exactly the same body height as it did new.

You could be right, I don't have enough background in metallurgy to debate the subject with certainty. :wink:
Sal

 

[JohnKSa]

Steel does not cold flow or creep at anything like temperatures outside a furnace and fatigue is the result of repeated flexing above a threahold stress value, not a constant load.

Actually, it can weaken from a constant load.

Here's a test that proves it.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1009595055/How+long+do+you+keep+your+springer+cocked-+Here%27s+a+test-

The spring-piston guns were left cocked for varying lengths of time and then chronographed to see how much the springs had weakened. All of them weakened to some extent, and the amount they weakened was related to how long they were left under constant load.

The longer they were under constant load, the weaker the springs were.

This test replicates the results of another similar test performed by Tom Gaylord in his book about the Beeman R1 in which he tested a number of springs to see the effect of leaving them compressed (cocked) for long periods of time.

A couple of notes. Spring piston airguns typically are trying to pack the most power into the smallest space and weight that they possibly can without driving cocking effort through the roof. The way they do that is to compress the springs as far as absolutely possible--often to coil-bind or just short of coil-bind. Some would say that amounts to overcompression. At any rate, the point is that it's the last little bit of compression that's the hardest on a spring. I have no doubt that if those springs were never compressed past about 3/4 of the way to coil bind that they would have lasted indefinitely.

If you think about it, double-column magazines are often under very similar design constraints. Trying to maximize capacity while minimizing space and weight required and keeping the effort required to load a magazine to a reasonable level. It's possible that some designs may stress the springs more than is really ideal in terms of magazine spring life.

I don't think it's all that common these days, but I have heard of cases where fully loaded double-column magazines have been left loaded for long periods with the results that the springs eventually weakened to the point of causing malfunctions.

It seems to be vanishingly rare with single-column magazines of even reasonably decent quality.

The best advice was given earlier in the thread, here's my version of it:

Load your mags to capacity and CHECK THEM REGULARLY! If you detect the springs weakening or if your mags start failing to feed the last round or failing to lock the slide open on empty then replace the springs with premium aftermarket springs. KEEP CHECKING THEM REGULARLY. If they weaken again then you can either underload the mags by a round or two or you can simply adopt a regular replacement interval for your magazine springs.

 

[Verndog]

Here's a test that proves it.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1009595055/How+long+do+you+keep+your+springer+cocked-+Here%27s+a+test-

The longer they were under constant load, the weaker the springs were.

Thank you for the link John. Possibly it will help some believe what may happen if certain conditions exist.
There are many variables that will determine if this is an issue with your particular gun or not. Or you could play it safe and let someone else find out the hard way. :wink:

 

[Hektik]

This thread has turned out excellent. Lots of good replies. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to give your 2 cents. I have learned quite a bit.