Priorities: Price vs. Performance

[GunnyGene]

I'm not a wealthy man, but I do have some wiggle room. I know that the price vs. performance of firearms, ammo, and accessories ( or tools, and other stuff) is a concern for many, including me. Nevertheless, I have always preferred the best performance/quality/reliability over price, even if it means cutting back on other things (such as a couple of my vices).

It disturbs me that I read about and hear so many folks, in person and on forums, who's primary criteria is the upfront cost of a firearm, ammo, etc., even tho they could afford better if they prioritized other things in their life.

Seems very short sighted to me. This is not to say that I object to bargain hunting, but there is more to a bargain than the sticker price.

 

[gunman42782]

When it comes to the protection of me and my family, I am willing to pay a little more for something that works. When it comes to guns, you really do get what you pay for.

 

[Dan in MI]

Gunny, Why are you surprised? The buy based on price only crowd is why most of American manufacturing has dried up. Same applies to Mom and Pop stores of all kinds. Local farming and countless other locally sourced goods. They all suffer from the price only consumer.


Their thought process is -- I can save 2 cents at big box why should I support my neighbor?


People cannot figure out that simple equation.


It's as bad a the guy I work with that will drive 10 miles out if his way to save 2 cents a gallon. Say he gets 20 MPG. So he used a gallon at $1.50. In his 20 gallon tank he "saved" forty cents. Even though it actually cost him $1.10. Even at five miles out of his way it cost him 35 cents. I just don't get it.

 

[exavid]

Based on the above why buy Ruger at all? Ruger is one of the lesser priced firearms. Not a BIG name firearm either. Even though they are in the middle-lower priced range of guns I've always found their products to be accurate, reliable and well manufactured. I don't need Sig Saur, Kimber, Walther prices when I can find reliable, lower priced, firearms made here in the US by a US company.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Some people have to own the best stuff just for the status. I see people with the best car, fishing poles, golf clubs, athletic shoes, etc. and they are happy. Other people buy stuff for the lowest price, notice I didn't say own stuff with a low price, because that stuff usually doesn't last. Most of the rest of us are in the middle somewhere, we like the good stuff but don't want to pay full price, so we settle for something that will do the job just as well, but that doesn't cost a fortune.

 

[Pat-inCO]

IMO, to look just at the price and not consider what you are getting for
those dollars, (using a gun metaphor) you shoot yourself in the foot.

MANY questions apply to the decision. Just a few of them are:
1) Is it to protect yourself or your family? To me a yes means a higher
price . . MAY . . be a good idea (obviously exceptions apply).

2) It is something you just "want"? A want usually rates far fewer dollars
when compared to a significant need.

3) How long do you anticipate it lasting? If it is one of the plethora of
items many/most of us buy and then shortly discard, lower price can
easily be the better decision.
3A) Can this become a portion of what you will likely convey to your
heirs, a higher price can easily be a good investment.

4) As you get older, convenience becomes more important. If, for
example, your local gun store only carries Tarus level guns and you
want a Sig, how far are you willing to travel (extreme example)?

In short, if you take the time to evaluate the more significant
parameters, it is far easier to make a good decision.

 

[Dan in MI]

I didn't say to shop by price. I said a lot of people do.

I base purchases on value. Which is a combination of price, function, durability and other things I can't come up with this instant.

Let's takes tools. Having made my living as a mechanic I have 90% Snap On tools. You can say Craftsman are just as good and have a life time warranty (considering pre 80's vintage) I can say without any hesitation S.O. is WELL worth the price difference. For the hobby mechanic or home use I'd agree with Craftsman.

Now, if I need a specialty tool I may never use again I will buy the throw away from harbor freight. $20 versus $200 for a one time deal is worth it. Even twice.

(I am editing my post above because a sentence might construed as my style - I thought it may get interpretted that way. I will fix it)

Now Ruger as mentioned in an example above is a perfect example of a quality tool that offers great value in price.

 

[welder]

Personal taste for me, trumps price when it comes to firearms. That taste comprises several considerations such as reliability, durability, ergonomics. accuracy and serviceability. Ruger fills that bill sometimes although less these days with their later offerings. Most times the stars line up and I can be satisfied with a purchase that happens to not be the most expensive choice and still fill the bill. A Ruger P95 for me is a good example. A perfect truck gun, always reasonably priced and a gun I can be very happy with in that role. For carry, usually Glock or Smith for me personally, different factors I consider there and these two brands serve me well. But if I could not feel completely safe in that choice, I'd spend more since my life may one day depend on that choice. I haven't bought a "cheap" gun after about my second or third year in this sport, simply can't afford them.

Good analogy with the tools. If I made my living with them I'd probably buy Snap On. The few I own and have used seemed to be the top of the heap and I could see the justification as they would be a lifetime purchase with unmatched service from what I see. In my home shop I have old vintage Craftsman that serve me well, a good balance of value and serviceability but they are used a few times a year and they are not tools of my trade.

 

[blackhawknj]

IMHO there is such a thing as paying too much and not really getting extra value for the money. Back in 1980 or so I was in an IPSC group, I regularly beat shooters who had customized 45s with-a stock AMT Hardballer. Having a rather high performance car is a poor choice for a short commute or driving in the city. I agree there's plenty of junk out there but high price is no guarantee of real value.

 

[willk]

Gunny, Why are you surprised? The buy based on price only crowd is why most of American manufacturing has dried up. Same applies to Mom and Pop stores of all kinds. Local farming and countless other locally sourced goods. They all suffer from the price only consumer.


Their thought process is -- I can save 2 cents at big box why should I support my neighbor?


People cannot figure out that simple equation.


It's as bad a the guy I work with that will drive 10 miles out if his way to save 2 cents a gallon. Say he gets 20 MPG. So he used a gallon at $1.50. In his 20 gallon tank he "saved" forty cents. Even though it actually cost him $1.10. Even at five miles out of his way it cost him 35 cents. I just don't get it.

What he said!

 

[Fox Mike]

I didn't say to shop by price. I said a lot of people do.

I base purchases on value. Which is a combination of price, function, durability and other things I can't come up with this instant.

Let's takes tools. Having made my living as a mechanic I have 90% Snap On tools. You can say Craftsman are just as good and have a life time warranty (considering pre 80's vintage) I can say without any hesitation S.O. is WELL worth the price difference. For the hobby mechanic or home use I'd agree with Craftsman.

Now, if I need a specialty tool I may never use again I will buy the throw away from harbor freight. $20 versus $200 for a one time deal is worth it. Even twice.

(I am editing my post above because a sentence might construed as my style - I thought it may get interpretted that way. I will fix it)

Now Ruger as mentioned in an example above is a perfect example of a quality tool that offers great value in price.

Using your analogy why buy Ruger when Kimber and S&W are out there? I turned a wrench for a living for many many years and most of my tools are Craftsman. NEVER had a problem; they worked as well as the Snap-on, MAC, and Matco I also have. Less expensive does not always indicate less quality OR durability.

 

[Dan in MI]

I knew a Craftsman lover would pop in. :lol: I was too until this happened.

1980 Ford Courier. The tailamps were bolted in with 10mm head bolts. The truck was damaged and went to the paint shop. They painted over the three bolts. I tried my 1/4" 10mm shallow. It split. 3/8" shallow. Split. 3/8" deep, split. !/4" dee, split. Now I am out of sockets and haven't even broken loose the first bolt. Borrowed a 1/4" Snap On shallow. Popped all three bolts no issue.

I learned about Snap On's flank drive and never looked back.

 

[Fox Mike]

I knew a Craftsman lover would pop in. :lol: I was too until this happened.

1980 Ford Courier. The tailamps were bolted in with 10mm head bolts. The truck was damaged and went to the paint shop. They painted over the three bolts. I tried my 1/4" 10mm shallow. It split. 3/8" shallow. Split. 3/8" deep, split. !/4" dee, split. Now I am out of sockets and haven't even broken loose the first bolt. Borrowed a 1/4" Snap On shallow. Popped all three bolts no issue.

I learned about Snap On's flank drive and never looked back.

Worked on helicopters and stiff wing, as well as my own autos, and have NEVER broken a Craftsman socket. Guess I was lucky. I have broken a Snap-on 1/4 dr ratchet; which the dealer replaced.

 

[Kevin]

Sometimes it's hard to justify a price of say 25% more for a gun just because it might have one or two features more. I don't necessarily agree with the statement about "with guns you get what you pay for" you might get different features , i.e. ambidextrous safety for example or adjustable grip thickness but those are only important if you need them otherwise it's money spent on something you won't be using.

Everyone has different priorities in life, perhaps they enjoy shooting with friends on the weekend but didn't buy the most expensive gun out there because they have 2 kids in college. Ya just never know. I'm personally trying to not buy a gun this year so I can afford to send one off to get customised next spring. It's all just choices.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

I try not to sacrifice performance but I prefer to buy used to save some money.

 

[gtxmonte]

I used to be a Master Tech at a Chrysler dealer. Craftsman is not a hard use tool line. Yes they are lifetime guarantee, but you have to drive to the store, if you can find one and then hope they have what you need. In the rare event you do break a Snap-On, Mac, Matco, Cornwell, etc.......the tool truck will be by in a couple days........LOL!!! And I have broken a boat load of Craftsman sockets and wrenches.

As to the original point of this post. I generally buy what I like or want. Seldom is that the cheapest of anything. While cost is important, it is not my priority. Somebody above mentioned "why Ruger at all then" and that is a valid statement. They probably don't make the BEST of anything, but they do make pretty good, at a reasonable price for most. Myself I have several Ruger pistols, mostly single actions and some 10/22s. For anything else, I shop other brands

 

[roarindan51]

When I read my gun rags, I'll read the first couple paragraphs then gaze at the info box. Sometimes I laff out loud at the prices. 1-2 grand fer a pistola ....I skip to the next story.

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

"Ruger Only Loads"

 

[Dan in MI]

"Ruger Only Loads"

Not a fair statement. You can't apply 20th century powder and pressures to 19th century metallurgy. That's why Ruger and T/C only loads exist.



...... which seems funny because that's what Elmer Keith did.


Note the OP wasn't specific to guns or tools it was a general reference on buying in general based on price alone.

 

[volshooter]

Perhaps a good example here. On a sale/whim I bought a Taurus PT111.
I have by now put around 1000+ rounds through it with no failures and excellent accuracy. I paid $239 but they can be had for $199 on sale. It/I have outshot very expensive pistols at the range. I was looking for an everyday inexpensive carry that would take abuse, reliable, accurate and cheap. This fits the bill very nicely and I don't worry if it does get scratches. It shoots as well as the Springfield and Glocks. Here I got a deal, and I am very pleased. I would not carry, say a Kimber in my daily routine due to the abuse I know my sidearm will endure.
Performance is what my main priority is, not price, as well as conditions. For my needs, buying a premium carry is unwise for daily carry.
It gets the job done and less than 1/5 the price of a purdy name brand.
I have a Springfield subcompact XD and a Taurus PT92 that consistently out shoot HK's, Beretta's, Glocks, Kimbers, Sigs and others during range time. Sure some firearms are better quality, but it is the shooter that makes it happen.
On tools, yes, cheap tools will fail. I prefer high end tools because I have broken amany Craftsman wrenches and sockets. SnapOn, and SK are my favorites. Indeed, somethings are worth paying extra for.

 

[Busterswoodshop]

I believe you should buy the very best that you can afford.
Then there is less of a chance you will be replacing it later.

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

I believe you should buy the very best that you can afford.
Then there is less of a chance you will be replacing it later.

Or sooner.

A gun is like a parachute....

 

[737tdi]

I didn't say to shop by price. I said a lot of people do.

I base purchases on value. Which is a combination of price, function, durability and other things I can't come up with this instant.

Let's takes tools. Having made my living as a mechanic I have 90% Snap On tools. You can say Craftsman are just as good and have a life time warranty (considering pre 80's vintage) I can say without any hesitation S.O. is WELL worth the price difference. For the hobby mechanic or home use I'd agree with Craftsman.

Now, if I need a specialty tool I may never use again I will buy the throw away from harbor freight. $20 versus $200 for a one time deal is worth it. Even twice.

(I am editing my post above because a sentence might construed as my style - I thought it may get interpretted that way. I will fix it)

Now Ruger as mentioned in an example above is a perfect example of a quality tool that offers great value in price.

Howdy Dan: We have had some interaction between the two of us. I absolutely agree. If you make your living with tools the No. 1 brand is Snap On. No question. As I have said here before, there is no way I could do my job with crap from Harbor Freight, Northern, and even Craftsman.

I wear out tools. Not many people do that. I have to replace two 5/16s sockets due to wear, they are slipping on nuts. I don't have the time to find a Sears to replace them. The truck is at my job on Tues. and Thurs.. He will replace them and I move on. These sockets are probably 15 years old. I have to say I got my moneys worth.

As you may know there are 4 very used sockets in aviation. 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 and 1/2 and they do wear out. If it were a cheap tool I would be replacing them every year. Not an option.

With firearms, Ruger is awesome as far as revolvers. Sig Sauer is my choice for autos (not including .22s). Yes, they are expensive but when my life depends on 100% reliability they are my choice. I don't really have the money to buy them but I will save until I do. JMOs.


Karl

 

[mohavesam]

Rescue dogs vs. breeder dogs.
Sears vs. Nordstroms.
Ford vs. Jaguar. Well, OK, I chose the Jag.

 

[mikewriter]

Personally, I mostly buy used guns because it is actually easy to find pretty much what I am looking for, at a better price, and - at least for the present - little or no paperwork involved. Have never had a problem with any of my used Rugers, but did have a new one that had to be replaced.

The comment about the AMT Hardball caught my eye. I have never owned or even handled one of these, but am considering one for my next 1911 purchase. They seem to have some features I like - and when I see one for sale they are not really "cheap", so they seem to hold some value.

My own experience with AMT guns is from a sample of one. Several months ago I was wrecking out an old RV and found an old AMT .380 Backup under the kitchen oven, where it had apparently been for at least the 12 years I have owned the camper. The little pistol also had a fully loaded magazine. Internet inquiries quickly drew a lot of negative comments about AMT, but I cleaned this one up (no rust, just dirt), replaced the trigger spring, bought a couple of new magazines, and found a set of factory checkered walnut grips still new in their box. It shoots and functions fine, for what it is. The only "jams" I've seen were on the last round in the original magazine - which, remember, had lain there loaded for at least 12 years! It cycles and fires both FMJ and most HP ammo, with the only real feeding problem being with some Hornady branded ammo (although other brands loaded with XTP's cycle fine).

The pistol basically has no sights, but is still pretty accurate at the ranges I would expect to use it - 7 to 15 yards. Recently I was made aware that a LaserMax sight meant for the Colt Mustang .380 fits the AMT nearly perfectly, and makes it much more accurate.

In my case, the "price" was certainly a factor - never "found" a gun before! Price aside, I like the all stainless construction, and much prefer the manual and grip safeties to a polymer, striker fired pistol with basically no safety at all. I also like the magazine disconnect. Since literally "finding" this pistol it has been amazing how many gun owners have told me they had one just like it in the past they wish they'd kept. No one who actually owned an AMT Backup .380 that I have personally talked to had any complaints. Not long ago I found another one - brand new in the original box - that I picked up for one of my brothers who had examined mine and liked it - a lot.

From what I see on the used market, occasionally one will sell for cheap - $250 or so - but mostly they seem to have at least asking prices equal to or above those for Ruger, Berreta, and some other small .380's.

The only other .380 I have ever owned was a Belgian made Browning. That one was a very fine gun, but 25 years ago I was not impressed with the performance of .380 ammo. Newer advances in ammo available seems to have made a big difference in the feasibility of the .380 as a defense weapon - although I would still consider a .380 "Backup" to be just that!

Incidentally, of the ammo that was in the gun when I found it , all five rounds fired. The only other .380 ammo I had to try in it that day was from a box I bought 25 years ago - when I had the Browning - and had squirreled away in the safe. That box was Remington FMJ, and all of those fed and fired as well.

For me, this little gun is special, as it has a unique history - and so far both price and performance have been about as good as it gets!

 

[cyborgt800]

In the rare event you do break a Snap-On, Mac, Matco, Cornwell, etc.......the tool truck will be by in a couple days........LOL!!! And I have broken a boat load of Craftsman sockets and wrenches.

This was the precise reason I used Craftsman when I was wrenching a lot...I could get a replacement in an hour or so, if needed rather than wait a few days for a truck to come by...

Reality was though that the only tools I ever replaced were a breaker bar and a socket...and I totally misused them! They were replaced and I was back in business within the hour.


As for guns, generally I might agree with the OP, however if this was meant as a slight against Ruger, then I'd argue that one thing everyone generally agrees on is that Rugers are tanks and quite sturdy.

A lower price doesn't automatically mean less quality just as a higher price doesn't necessarily mean higher quality.

 

[GP100]

When I buy a gun, I do so with quality in mind.. Not the price point.. I can get both with Ruger. Hence why I used to buy the GP100 Revolver. I could get a quality firearm with a decent price point.. They are built like a damn tank and you can't beat the price. I never had an issue with any Ruger I ever bought.

Now, I do like the Smith & Wesson revolvers as well. But lets face it. They don't have a revolver yet in my opinion that can beat the GP100 in the strength and durability department. Just my opinion..

 

[finesse_r]

IMHO, much of the Ruger line is the best stuff even if it dose not cost as much. No way I am giving up my Speed Six or my Security Six for any other revolver. They are not only the best value in .357 mag DA revolvers, they are the best DA revolvers. Price does not always indicate value or quality.

 

[737tdi]

In the rare event you do break a Snap-On, Mac, Matco, Cornwell, etc.......the tool truck will be by in a couple days........LOL!!! And I have broken a boat load of Craftsman sockets and wrenches.

This was the precise reason I used Craftsman when I was wrenching a lot...I could get a replacement in an hour or so, if needed rather than wait a few days for a truck to come by...

Reality was though that the only tools I ever replaced were a breaker bar and a socket...and I totally misused them! They were replaced and I was back in business within the hour.


As for guns, generally I might agree with the OP, however if this was meant as a slight against Ruger, then I'd argue that one thing everyone generally agrees on is that Rugers are tanks and quite sturdy.


A lower price doesn't automatically mean less quality just as a higher price doesn't necessarily mean higher quality.

If you "wrenched" a lot for a living you would have never used sub par tools. I have been a mechanic for 36 years now and I would not even think of using sub par tools. When the tools get large, 2" or better then I will use off brands. Never before that. Snap-On is the King. The others are crap.

 

[gtxmonte]

^^^^^^^^^^^^Agree, only "line mechanics" I ever saw use Craftsman stuff were the new guys or the ones who always had their tools in their truck and seemed to be working at a different shop every week. Serious guys, who turned a lot of hours every week, used serious tools. I have used Craftsman stuff at home and even at the shop, IF it was something that was used very rarely..........but everyday tools........Snap-On, Matco, Mac or Cornwell