Poll: Have you removed your mag. disconnect in your SRxx??

[Anonymous]

I'm too stupid to figure it out.

 

[freedomcosts]

spetch said 'It's just like carrying in places where one isn't allowed to. I will do it because if I need the gun I'm glad I have it and ' I know exactly how you feel, I feel absolutely nekkid without it. My problem is 1, 2 or 3 times a week I have to go into a Federal building, and as we know that's a strict no-no. This building is situated between a huge public park where the homeless hang out, and the main Salvation Army building for the State. So first I have to park 1-3 blocks away and walk- and second there are constantly shady-lookin' characters walking in front, be hind, or comin' right at me. I disarm before going in banks, Post Offices- and this Fed. building but man, I do not like being there unarmed.
I did not remove my mag. sfty for two reasons- I can't tell that it would make much difference to me, and I wouldn't know how anyway.

 

[NixieTube]

I said it several times in this thread on the Wayback machine too.

HaHa Nixie thought you could slip another vote in huh?? Poll is too smart, it remembers you from 1 year ago...we're onto you. :lol:

Hey it's funny . I have a big sense of humor about living in the Commonwealth but I do try to be very "to the letter" on these kinds of questions for people living here and others similarly situated. I'm not a lawyer, and it's my best advice. It's the advice I would give to anyone I knew here seeking a license. It's because there's probably noplace else in this country where, if you had to shoot someone trying to kill a doctor with a big knife, in a Hospital, you'd be under investigation for five months...except Massachusetts.

That guy should have gotten a parade and the Key to the City; instead he got a 5-month investigation. And we're all glad it ended rightly, but how would you feel to be under legal investigation by the District Attorney for 5 months after saving a doctor's life in a clearly right case of lethal force?

There are places you can drive in this state where even if you stay in the boundaries of your township and you possess all the requisite licensing you *will be* a felon just for driving in the wrong place, because the township straddles a state line with a non-reciprocity state (and in MA that's all of them).

I live in one such town. So if I drive accidentally to a certain part of my town with my gun loaded on my person and fully under my control and I inadvertently cross an invisible line on a map, even though I'm within my township where the Chief of Police issued my license personally there's a good chance I'm instantly a felon if I was to be pulled over for some reason on the "wrong" side of that invisible line.

So yeah, I take it seriously. I want my fellow MA gun owners to Survive and Prosper.

I have to have a sense of humor and I'm glad people are "on to me." It's a good thing. People need to know just how bizarre things can be, and I'm happy to tell them.

[Aside to Jeff Quinn, if he's listening: keep putting those funny one liners into your videos. They're awesome, we love 'em here in the Commonwealth, and we laugh and nod our heads every time we hear 'em. ]

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

So if you remove the magazine in this pistol, rack the slide, and pull the trigger... The trigger wont pull?

 

[NixieTube]

So if you remove the magazine in this pistol, rack the slide, and pull the trigger... The trigger wont pull?

It will pull, as long as the manual safety is off.

On an SR9 like mine the trigger will pull if you do that, but the striker will not hit the primer with the magazine disconnect safety in place, because it blocks the forward movement of the striker when there's no magazine in the gun. So you're basically finishing the cocking of the gun, you're "firing" it - but the striker cannot protrude through the breechface to hit the primer and start the fireworks. Even if the gun is in battery the striker is physically blocked from hitting the primer in that instance.

You can pull the trigger, the gun will go "click" but not "bang" even with a round in the chamber. Ruger advises against dry (or what I call partially-live or, more colorfully "Zombie Mode" firing, if there's a round in the chamber) firing the gun in this manner because the magazine disconnect mechanism blocks the striker from traveling fully forward and hitting the primer and it's not supposed to be something you do every day. It's a safety feature. People who dry fire the gun with the magazine out are abusing the mechanism, in other words, and they're not following the recommended manual of arms for the pistol.

All of this assumes the manual safety is in the "off" position of course.

If you want to dry fire the gun, put the magazine back in, empty, with an empty chamber and "fire" away. Or you can remove the magazine disconnect safety. Either way, you'll have to rack the slide every time and it will lock back if a magazine is in place - unless you hold the slide stop lever down - in order to reset the trigger. Alternately you can let it lock back and then slingshot the slide and reset the trigger and dryfire again.

The magazine disconnect safety is designed to do one job and one job only: stop the gun from firing with a round in the chamber if the magazine is dropped and the trigger is pulled. And that's exactly what it does.

If you remove the magazine disconnect safety and you have a round in the chamber, the gun will fire even if you drop the magazine. It also will not lock the slide back in that instance if you drop the magazine because the magazine follower isn't there to push up on the slide stop and lock it back. In that case the one thing the mag. disconnect safety is there to do will not happen.

Everyone needs to decide on how they want the manual of arms for their pistol to be. I've made up my mind .

 

[guidedfishing]

Do what you have to do and live with what you do.

"The arguments in favor of a magazine disconnect are that if the gun cannot fire without a magazine, then an accidental discharge can be prevented if someone removes the magazine but forgets that a round has been chambered. Also, if losing possession of the firearm is imminent, the operator can render the firearm useless by removing the magazine."

I've had to carry or been around auto pistols for a good portion of my life. If you subscribe to the above statement. That's your choice not mine. Its not a safety, and if you believe that it is your understanding of firearm safety may need to be evaluated.

Just remember when your in imminent danger of losing your pistol don't forget to drop your magazine.


That being said I don't make a habit of modifying pistols, My HP still has the magazine disconnect. My SR9 does not the Manufacture even tells you it can be removed.

Just don't pretend this is a safety. These threads all end the same and go no where, just opinions and no supporting facts.

Good Luck
GF

 

[Hazama Yakiba]

I demand a RECOUNT !!! There's missing votes ! Hanging chads !

Your Honor, the "Counter" (Verndog) is biased in favor of altering guns to the legal liability of all who do so or follow in his errant footsteps... BIAS IS EVIDENT due to the Defendant's use of FEAR BASED WORDS such as "risk" and "bad idea" etc. to scare voters into supporting his criminal scheme (ala REPUBLICANS George Bush & Dick Cheny revisited) :lol:

Your Honor, the Prosecution advances the Polling ballot was written in a skewed, vague & deceptive fashion, therefore the case should be dismissed and the results expunged after being declared invalid !!!

And Your Honor, I know the Court, being historically against crime, will agree with me that "NO" should have been the top two polling questions :lol:

Your Honor. The Prosecution rests !

Haz :::lives in Florida where "RECOUNTS" and allegations of VOTER FRAUD are a way of life:::

 

[Verndog]

...Your Honor, the "Counter" (Verndog) is biased in favor of altering guns to the legal liability...:::

Nice try Haz....go back and read the first couple of posts...I voted NO, not enough reason and the poll will not even let me change it if I wanted. It wasn't until later I had a mag jar loose on me and made me reconsider my stance. :wink:

Court is now adjourned...Haz is guilty of defamation of awesome character...and we sentence you to 20 years of lasers and thumbs...no iron sights for you!! :twisted:

 

[cruzerlou]

I didn't vote as I only have LC9, not any of the SR series. Any YES, the magazine disconnect is gone. My reasons are quite the same as cruzerlou posted above. Also, there's no law here in CZ that would make me keep the disconnect in, so I don't have to think about any legal consequencies.

Just to set the record stright i DON'T at this time own an SR9 ,but plan to in the near future ,but that dosn't change my vote .
Lou

 

[cruzerlou]

I didn't vote as I only have LC9, not any of the SR series. Any YES, the magazine disconnect is gone. My reasons are quite the same as cruzerlou posted above. Also, there's no law here in CZ that would make me keep the disconnect in, so I don't have to think about any legal consequencies.

Just to set the record stright i DON'T at this time own an SR9 ,but plan to in the near future ,but that dosn't change my vote .
Lou

 

[Hazama Yakiba]

...Court is now adjourned...Haz is guilty of defamation of awesome character...and we sentence you to 20 years of lasers and thumbs...no iron sights for you!! :twisted:

I won't "Turn Myself In" to start serving my sentence Verndog, unless I have a written document from you stating, "Haz can have conjugal visits from Angelina Jolie, Jessica Alba and/or Scarlett Johansen (preferrably all three at the same time) as often as he likes"

:::Typed response from an anonymous safe-house located somewhere deep in the Jungles of Brazil via BlueTooth:::

 

[NixieTube]

Just don't pretend this is a safety. These threads all end the same and go no where, just opinions and no supporting facts.

Good Luck
GF

But can I hunt bear with it????

Oh Dear. Seriously though, I really would enjoy hearing from a LEO who works for a department where mag. disconnects are required and hear the rationale and the data, if any, that supports it.

Has there ever been an instance when an officer on duty involved in an altercation successfully protected themself by dropping the magazine at the last second prior to the bad guy gaining control of the weapon, then going for their backup gun and smoking the perp? [And would they even be justified in using lethal force in that instance, since they know the BG now has a gun that won't fire?]

Or even better, do police armorers like the feature because they know they can render the pistols safe(r) by doing it, before fully clearing and checking the weapons? It seems to me that the mere presence of a magazine disconnect safety is a poor substitute for positively clearing and verifying, but maybe it's been useful in some circumstances.

It's hard to make the case for these things one way or the other in the absence of data. Does someone like Ayoob know of any real studies that have been done that either support mag. disconnect safeties or refute their worth? I'd like to see that. Maybe someone should write to him and ask him to weigh in on the subject with what he knows.

 

[cruzerlou]

Trust me on this ,if your grappling with someone to retain your gun having the dexterity required to hit the mag release is just a fantasy.Were trained in this type of situation try to at least fire the gun to get then to let go and if you can shoot them when it does go off ,again this would be considered justified as if there trying to snatch your gun you can assume that there going to shoot you with it thus they ARE a deadly threat to you and to others. As to the second statement you made the answer would be no the are no longer a lethal threat if you've dropped your mag and the gun has a mag disconnect and you've rendered the gun inoperable .As to proof that this has ever happened ,I've heard it discussed among other officers but have NEVER seen one documented case of this being true .I do know of one true case where an officer had his 1911 snatched but the perp wasn't familiar with the 1911 and didn't know how to take the safety off and that B.G. DID get shot with the officers backup gun ,but again in this case it was justified ,has the prep gotten the safety disengaged he was a threat .Lastly any aromor worth his salt ,the first thing he's going to do is make sure the guns unloaded before he does anything else .
You brought up valid points and good questions ,well done .
Your friend,
Lou

 

[NixieTube]

Trust me on this ,if your grappling with someone to retain your gun having the dexterity required to hit the mag release is just a fantasy.Were trained in this type of situation try to at least fire the gun to get then to let go and if you can shoot them when it does go off ,again this would be considered justified as if there trying to snatch your gun you can assume that there going to shoot you with it thus they ARE a deadly threat to you and to others. As to the second statement you made the answer would be no the are no longer a lethal threat if you've dropped your mag and the gun has a mag disconnect and you've rendered the gun inoperable .As to proof that this has ever happened ,I've heard it discussed among other officers but have NEVER seen one documented case of this being true .I do know of one true case where an officer had his 1911 snatched but the perp wasn't familiar with the 1911 and didn't know how to take the safety off and that B.G. DID get shot with the officers backup gun ,but again in this case it was justified ,has the prep gotten the safety disengaged he was a threat .Lastly any aromor worth his salt ,the first thing he's going to do is make sure the guns unloaded before he does anything else .
You brought up valid points and good questions ,well done .
Your friend,
Lou

Thanks and I think you really summed it up right there: if a criminal is trying to take an officer's gun in a fight, the assumption is that guy or guys basically is trying to kill him or her, and whatever deadly force the officer has to use at that point is justified. It sure would be for me if I witnessed it. Thank you very much and please know that I understand how much police officers risk every day. They really are the good guys and the rest of us "sheepdogs" know that. Best to you. I think the most important thing we can do for you is to be there in the background, only otherwise if we *absolutely* have to be, but otherwise stay out of your role. Your job is law enforcement, my job is very different, even though I own guns. We live (relatively speaking) peaceably in a society because there are men and women whose job it is to put their lives on the line to Protect and Defend and Serve, who take it upon themselves as their duty -- and I have immense respect for them.

 

[drew76]

Trust me on this ,if your grappling with someone to retain your gun having the dexterity required to hit the mag release is just a fantasy.Were trained in this type of situation try to at least fire the gun to get then to let go and if you can shoot them when it does go off ,again this would be considered justified as if there trying to snatch your gun you can assume that there going to shoot you with it thus they ARE a deadly threat to you and to others. As to the second statement you made the answer would be no the are no longer a lethal threat if you've dropped your mag and the gun has a mag disconnect and you've rendered the gun inoperable .As to proof that this has ever happened ,I've heard it discussed among other officers but have NEVER seen one documented case.
Lou

Not as much a fantasy as you may believe, Lou. Trust me.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/23562295@N00/340967133/

Not all LE training is equal and different departments have different training standards and protocols. Firing a gun in the attempt of getting a perp to release might work but could well jam it up rendering it useless for ? long. Dropping a mag from a 4006 renders the gun useless only for as long as it takes the officer to insert another. I can get to a second mag before you can get to a back up gun.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I may reinstall the mag disconnect at some point just to see if the gun is reliable with it installed. When it comes to guns I subscribe to KISS: Keep It Super Simple, hence I don't care for additional parts which could cause problems. I don't like the idea of the striker rubbing against another part which could reduce the force of the primer strike, no matter how minor.

 

[bada61265]

interesting to think that someone worries weather a guns mag can be dropped in a struggle to insure the assailant cant use the weapon on him if taken away. What if he just beats you to death with it when it wont fire. what if you accidently drop your mag and cant fire when you could of fired. what if your in a fight and the mag gets dropped or damaged in a reload , its dark and a dropped mag cant be found one round in the chamber, might as well just throw your gun at him.

 

[Leucoandro]

I voted no. As a cc pistol I don't like the possibility of trouble it opens to me. I do still have a copy of the gun talk episode where the then president of ruger went out of his way to say that the device was not a safety, and that it was user removable.

Now I have an issue. My SR9c used to work perfect. Then suddenly I got about 8 missfires out of 50 rounds at the range one day. The problem was not ammunition. Sent the pistol to ruger and they replaced the firing pin, which fixed it.

Still have problems trusting the gun again though. Might sell it for a m&p 9.

Shame because the trigger is very nice, and I am very accurate with that gun.


Charlie

 

[freedomcosts]

Only advantage I've ever heard is IF the BG tries to take your gun away and IFyou have a chance to drop the mag before he gets it- THEN he can;t shoot YOU with it. But I haven't removed mine, it just doesn't bother me. Kinda like the front slide serrations.
Ooops, didn't intend to start THAT one up.

 

[youngde]

Unless someone knows that removing the SR9's DC will cause improper operation, I'm going to remove mine because I shoot IDPA, and having the DC in my SR9 complicates the "unload and show clear" process. Since dry-firing without a magazine damages the SR9, and dry-firing is the second-to-last step of "unload and show clear", I have to make sure the match SO knows the deal with my gun. I don't like that. It makes the SO's job harder because he/she has a "one-off" shooter.

By the way, IDPA has ruled that a magazine DC is NOT a safety device: http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/8655/Locks-Disconnectors-Safeties.

-- david