P94 9mm Jams Loading Round

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lbk

Bearcat
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I picked up what looked to be a hardly used PC94. Using new Ruger magazines, I have been getting jammed rounds. Mostly the first round but some subsequent.
Sometimes when I push down on the top/back back of the barrel block it loads. Otherwise need to drop magazine and pull back slide to clear.

Happens with both Remington & Winchester ammo.

I noted a bit of scuffing on the cartridge about 1/4" behind back of bullet.

Any suggestions? Is there a way to post pics? Perhaps to different forum section?

The mags are OK since they feed my PC9 flawlessly.
 
You have to host pics off site. Try: http://postimage.org/

Are you riding the slide in anyway? That is my only thought without pics.

Welcome by the way from one of the P-nut group.
 
Here is a pic, I'll do more and clearer when I clean it.

The slide is pulled back and released quickly.

http://postimg.org/image/vkaj26st1/
 
Things to checklist...

Check feed ramp [any abnormalities?]
Check extractor [no chips, dings, wrong angles?]
Check magazine lips [these must be shaped right]
Check recoil spring weight [strong enough to shove the round into the toob]
Clean the P94 inside and out!
No limp wristing!

My apologies if this has been covered already. Just my standard checklist.
 
lbk said:
Here is a pic, I'll do more and clearer when I clean it.

The slide is pulled back and released quickly.

http://postimg.org/image/vkaj26st1/
Click to expand...

"Slingshotting the slide" that IS the proper term.

Maybe the feed ramp is out of spec?
 
I would also look at:
Round to barrel engagement when the barrel is out of the gun. Meaning just put a round in the chamber when the gun is apart and see if it feels right.
While the barrel is out of the slide, install on the frame and see if there is any drag. It should move freely. Hold the hammer down out of the way too. I had a slide that would drag because it was dropped and the rear was squeezing the frame as it went to battery.

Keep us posted. We'll figure it out.
 
Before you break out any polishing equipment . . . you most likely have an extractor issue. Look at how much tension is on the extractor as well as how sharp it is. Look at the case engagement area for small nicks in the brass.

Here is an example. I took two identical R1 1911s. And one had a nice smooth extractor that flush fit, the other had a rough extractor that stuck past the gun. I swapped extractors and neither would seata round on the first one. Same situation you described.

Few guns with spring steel extractors don't need tuning. Most likely the bottom needs polishing or the proper angle ground on it. Careful trying to bend the extractor as the bend is what holds it firmly in the gun. Most replacement P series extractors that are sold from Ruger are buffed pretty well so they drop in. When I say buffed, I mean with polishing rouge.
 
So far modrifle3's suggestion is the one that helps!!

The jams started when I was into my second magazine (as noted magazines are new) and the pistol was spotless and properly lubed.

I did a tear down and the bullets fed into the barrel smoothly.

Slide worked w/o any binding.

I pulled the extractor and did a number of sling shot loading of rounds....smooth as silk, no jams!!

So I'm now having to figure out what tension should the extractor have and where to polish (I'm familiar with polishing the action of my lever rifles) and/or improve configuration.

I'd sure like to get some replacement extractors just to have...

Anyone seen a YouTube on reworking the extractor??

Thanks for everyone's suggestions!!
 
Have you always started with a full magazine? Try a magazine loaded with just five rounds.

...and can you guys please stop hand cycling live rounds thru your guns, please just take some time and shoot them at a range. You can't hand cycle a gun anything like shooting it will be.

Believe it or not some new mags loaded fully puts just enough pressure on the slide to get it to get out of time, this goes away quickly.

...and polishing breachfaces is truly stupid.
 
If you have access to another p series you may want to look at its extractor. P89 p94 p95s should have the same extractor profile .... More our less. Polishing is usually done on the bottom and angle cut to promote positive movement of the round under the extractor.
 
May just need cleaned under there too.?. Remove, clean and reinstall to see how she runs.
 
OK so I made sure the extractor channel was clean (no dirt or residue found) and worked the extractor claw including bottom and edges with a bit of polish with the Dremel tool. Put it back together and still jams.

I also have a P94 in 40 S&W and the tension on the extractor is not as stiff. It cycles fine.

Can one adjust the tension of the extractor, should I even attempt w/o having a replacement available? I can't seem to track one down on the web -or- just contact Ruger & ship it to them?
 
Ruger will fix it for sure but I would try myself. Post pics of the parts and gun field striped please. I have a bunch of P-series and have never had any issues like this. Even with beat crap guns.
 
Here are a couple of better pics.
So the extractor tension feels tighter than on my other P94 (via pressure to move with my finger) . I did drop a note to Ruger to see what they have to say.
You can't see it in the pics but opposite the extractor on the breech there is a small crescent cut-out for the shell case. From below that where the shell should slide up and in it place it appears there is a little build up of metal outside where it as milled. I wish my camera could take that close up...I'm OK with polishing but hesitant to take off any real metal.

I've been manually working a shell case through the breech seating area and it feels a bit better than before but still will get quite a resistance.

http://postimg.org/image/9rw3u7iol/
http://postimg.org/image/rgnultufp/
 
Ruger will simply say ship it in. They won't commit to anything over the phone etc. Looks like it has not been shot much at all. May just need to losen up a bit from use. That cresent cut shouldn't bother anything. I have seen that before. You can try to weaken the extractor by bending it a little. In my limited experience it doesn't take a super tight extractor to do the job. I had a P95 that was almost loose but still worked.

Not 100% sure if this would work (i'm no gunsmith) but you could even remove the extractor and see if it feeds ok. Sort of take what you think is the issue out of the equation. You will have to manually remove the round so be safe.
 
5of7 said:
Why? 8)
Click to expand...


I don't know , I guess I'll think about.


Oh now I know, most semi auto pistols headspace and index on the case mouth of the round being loaded, playing with those dimensions could cause as little as feeding issues to the gun not working at all. what is polishing? At what degree does a person attempt to polish something? Give me a number because someone might need it. Giving out bogus crud for a fix is just wrong. I have never heard of polishing a breachface in order to get a round to feed properly, the breach is basically the last thing that makes contact with it.
 
Cheesewhiz said:
5of7 said:
Why? 8)
Click to expand...


I don't know , I guess I'll think about.


Oh now I know, most semi auto pistols headspace and index on the case mouth of the round being loaded, playing with those dimensions could cause as little as feeding issues to the gun not working at all. what is polishing? At what degree does a person attempt to polish something? Give me a number because someone might need it. Giving out bogus crud for a fix is just wrong. I have never heard of polishing a breachface in order to get a round to feed properly, the breach is basically the last thing that makes contact with it.
Click to expand...

Polishing the breech face is accomplished by using crocus cloth attached to a thin piece of wood that has been shaped and dimensioned to properly access the target area to be polished, and then rubbed until the roughness left by the manufacturing process has been mitigated. It it quite difficult to remove more than .001" when polishing in this manner.

I assumed,(always dangerous in a discussion forum) that any serious gunner would understand that.

Apparently I was wrong. :lol:
 
There you go 5-7, you actually mentioned some parameters, just throwing out polishing something means nothing.

There was a thread back about two years ago about polishing a feed ramp, one of many that I have seen. I mentioned that the proper way was to use Crocus Cloth wrapped around a compatible radius wooden dowel and use up and down movements only being careful to not roll it into the chamber. You would have thought that I came from the Planet Zootsuit for Christ's sake. The thread turned into what is the best grinding/polishing barrel for a Dremel tool for the job.

I have spoken with many gunsmiths over the years and many have said in one way or the other, that for the most part guns are designed and/or built better now days but what keeps them in business is a nitwit/kitchen table gunsmith with a Dremel tool. They can ruin anything on a gun in just seconds.

I still think this guy's issues probably have nothing to do with the sheen of his breachface and telling someone to have at it and polish it is just plain wrong with the proliferation of Dremels out there. A balky extractor is a know culprit with P series guns and maybe with this guy's issues, you can search my history and find that I have pointed that out many times before. It was already pointed out in this thread, so I mentioned some other thing(s) that could also be looked at, as twenty guys saying extractor makes for a very dumb thread.

You are not wrong, I'm a serious gun guy. I just don't throw things out there and hope something sticks or gets broken in a self inflicted way.
 
Cheesewhiz said:
There you go 5-7, you actually mentioned some parameters, just throwing out polishing something means nothing.

There was a thread back about two years ago about polishing a feed ramp, one of many that I have seen. I mentioned that the proper way was to use Crocus Cloth wrapped around a compatible radius wooden dowel and use up and down movements only being careful to not roll it into the chamber. You would have thought that I came from the Planet Zootsuit for Christ's sake. The thread turned into what is the best grinding/polishing barrel for a Dremel tool for the job.

I have spoken with many gunsmiths over the years and many have said in one way or the other, that for the most part guns are designed and/or built better now days but what keeps them in business is a nitwit/kitchen table gunsmith with a Dremel tool. They can ruin anything on a gun in just seconds.

I still think this guy's issues probably have nothing to do with the sheen of his breachface and telling someone to have at it and polish it is just plain wrong with the proliferation of Dremels out there. A balky extractor is a know culprit with P series guns and maybe with this guy's issues, you can search my history and find that I have pointed that out many times before. It was already pointed out in this thread, so I mentioned some other thing(s) that could also be looked at, as twenty guys saying extractor makes for a very dumb thread.

You are not wrong, I'm a serious gun guy. I just don't throw things out there and hope something sticks or gets broken in a self inflicted way.
Click to expand...

As I said before, I assume that any gun savvy shooter knows the difference between polishing a breech face and grinding a breech face.Perhaps that is a mistake, and I will grant that.

Polishing the breech face is my number 3 method of fixing feeding problems. Number 1 is polishing the feed ramp, and number 2 is polishing the extractor hook. Number 4 is to try a different magazine or replacing the magazine spring.

Polishing the breech face is often the solution because it reduces the friction of the rim of the cartridge as it slides up the breech face. It doesn't take much to cause feeding problems and this is one (of many) of the solutions. 8)
 
I would like to apologize to lbk for steering his OP into a pissing match.
My feeling and I'm quite sure of this is that your extractor has too much tension in it as it stands now. The problem is that Ruger's extractors for P series guns are mostly cast and trying to loosen it may be taking quite a risk.
You could try to bend it at the apex of the bow against a solid edge but I would only use a press with a properly shaped set of blocks for that and a very careful hand.
There is a way to profile the lower portion of the hook but this this has to be done carefully and only to the lower portion facing the magazine and the cartridge rim's entry point. The are some 1911 extractor profiling tips on the web but make sure the guy that posted them has most of his teeth.
 
I had a chat with Ruger and decide to send them the P94....with no real source for replacement extractors I didn't want to mess with it myself. I will see what ultimately needs to be done to fix...will update the post.
 
Got my P94 back from Ruger. They replaced the extractor, note says they put 40 round through and all was good.

I ran a magazine of snap caps through using "sling shot" cycling....all went smoothly.

Can't wait to do live rounds.

So how does one address the challenges in getting these parts independent of sending pistol to Ruger.....what they did was above and beyond in being helpful and fixing for me....like most I'd like to have a couple of the more prone to wear-out/break parts in my fix it inventory (extractor, ejector, firing pin).

Checked the usual places ie Brownells, Midway, Jack First Gun Shop & Numrich no luck with these parts being available.

Thanks to everyone with feedback, I tried them all and just thought it best to let Ruger address for me.

For anyone interested I did pick up a SR-22 and it was a blast to shoot, not one miss fire or jam I used CCI mini mags).
 
Good to hear you got it running right again. As for parts, I have a few but have never really changed anything from breakage or failure. I buy used guns and some parts are rusted etc from neglect is all.

I just picked up a complete 94 model for under 270 in hand so I wouldn't worry about parts really. IF Ruger can not fix a pistol they will give you a replacement. I sent in a P97 with a bad frame and they sent me a 1911. I had to pay a bit of an up charge but still happy.

Keep the P-guns alive!!
 
You will go bankrupt before breaking an extractor under normal use. And as I have long since preached, if Ruger can't fix it, they will replace it. Don't worry about it, just enjoy the pistol.
 
roylt said:
Good to hear you got it running right again. As for parts, I have a few but have never really changed anything from breakage or failure. I buy used guns and some parts are rusted etc from neglect is all.

I just picked up a complete 94 model for under 270 in hand so I wouldn't worry about parts really. IF Ruger can not fix a pistol they will give you a replacement. I sent in a P97 with a bad frame and they sent me a 1911. I had to pay a bit of an up charge but still happy.

Keep the P-guns alive!!
Click to expand...

Same here, I sent a p97 that hit the concrete and busted the frame and due to a system issue, I got a 1911 in its place. Only cost $79!
 
Ok hope this helps as I have read alot of posts about this problem with the P94 . My P94 worked great until about 500 rounds. I clean my guns after each use. My P94 started jamming. I noticed at first the casings started ejecting up, instead of to the side. I thought this had to do with ammo. Then it started to jam. Not ejecting the spent round. Not every clip, but enough to stop carrying, as I had no confidence. I researched and found it was more common than I thought. So it wasn't ammo. I Did read someones post about the ejector bar getting bent somehow, so I took mine out ( witch the manuel doesn't provide instructions for, nor have I ever needed to with my other guns ) It is really easy. When I did OMG! there was ALOT of residue under the bar. Cleaned it ( no bending ) put it back and have had no problem since. Now I take it out after each use. Hope this helps.
 
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