P-47M color schemes????????????

[Bob Wright]

A model shown of the Republic P-47M Thunderbolt shows it painted in a pale blue/dark blue camouflage scheme, while another depicts it as all blue. The markings indicate the 56th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force. Anybody familiar with this?

Bob Wright

 

[Snake45]

Yes.

These were some wild camo schemes used by 56FG in very late 1944 and 1945. One squadron used gray and green camo, one used an overall very dark blue or bluish black (possibly even straight black), and one used a lighter gray/blue with a darker gray/blue.

The exact colors involved have been researched, discussed and debated by historians and modelers since at least the '60s. All these airplanes came from the factory unpainted, so they were camoed at the local/unit level. It's been suggested that various RAF paints were used, and custom mixes of RAF and/or US paints, and even maybe some locally procured automobile paints (and custom mixes thereof).

BTW, the 56FG was the only unit to use the P-47M. They got them all. The P-47M was basically a late-model P-47N-type R2800 in a more or less standard late P-47D (bubbletop) airframe. 56FG was only the only fighter outfit in 8AF that flew the P-47 through the whole war. All 14 other 8AF fighter groups had converted to the P-51 by the end of the war (or started with them outright, as did the 357FG).

 

[Bob Wright]

Thanks, Snake. Should have just addressed my post to you!

From what I've read concerning the gray/green scheme, the P-47s were originally to be delivered to an RAF Operational Training Group (OTU) and were painted overall gray as was their standard. However, they were diverted to the 56th and group ground crews painted the green, or olive drab, camouflage on the aircraft, the patterns dictated by their own whim.

Bob Wright

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Thanks, Snake. Should have just addressed my post to you!

Hey Bob,
Glad you posted made me do a little research to keep Snake honest.
Yes he was correct.
If you want to read a GREAT book get a copy of "Zemke's Wolf Pack".
He went from Biplanes to Jets an outstanding Warrior and Leader.
A little about Col. Zemke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Zemke

 

[Snake45]

Thanks, Snake. Should have just addressed my post to you!

From what I've read concerning the gray/green scheme, the P-47s were originally to be delivered to an RAF Operational Training Group (OTU) and were painted overall gray as was their standard. However, they were diverted to the 56th and group ground crews painted the green, or olive drab, camouflage on the aircraft, the patterns dictated by their own whim.

Bob Wright

I've been studying the 8AF fighter units since about 1970 and I've never heard the story of P-47Ms originally destined for any RAF OTU. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying in all these years I've never heard anything like that.

Also, I've never seen any RAF P-47 of any kind in overall gray. Gray and green, their standard Day Fighter scheme, yes. They also painted them in brown and green in the Far East. But not overall gray that I've ever seen.

My own theory is that the lighter blue-gray on the 2-tone blue-gray 56FG 47Ms was RAF PRU (Photo Recon Unit) Blue, a shade that's not far from the USN Intermediate Blue as seen on mid-war US Navy Hellcats, Corsairs, Wildcats, Avengers, etc. USN operated no such aircraft in the ETO (with the exception of a few in the invasion of southern France in late 1944), so there would have been no reason to have that paint in US stocks in England. But Brit PRU was a very common paint used on Spitfires and Mosquitos, and was also seen on 8AF photorecon F-5s (recon P-38s).

Some have speculated that the darker blue on 56FG P-47s was made by adding white to Insiginia Blue. Insignia Blue is very dark, and was used in the US star-and-bar emblem, so USAAF in ETO would have had access to that paint.

But, as I've said, very very few IF ANY definitive facts about these paints have come to light or been agreed on.

ETA: Come to think of it, I don't believe I've ever seen a WWII Spitfire, Tempest or Typhoon in overall gray, whether assigned to an RAF operational training unit or not. I'd love to see a photo of such--such a model would be VERY easy to build (without having to paint camo). :wink:

 

[Bob Wright]

Snake said:

I've been studying the 8AF fighter units since about 1970 and I've never heard the story of P-47Ms originally destined for and RAF OTU. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying in all these years I've never heard anything like that.

Didn't make that very clear ~ the P-47s I referred to were P-47D models.


Bob Wright

 

[Bob Wright]

Snake:

Your reference to the F-5, the recon version of the P-38, reminded me of an old gentleman (now deceased) whose room was next door to my mother-in-law's room at the nursing home. When visiting my mother-in-law, I often dropped in on him to listen to some of his stories.

He was in the 20th Air Force, based in the Philippines, which came as a surprise to me as I thought the 20th was all based in the Marianas. He was a photographer with a photo-recon squadron, and always referred to their planes as P-38s, and they were the standard OD/gray pattern. He made several flights in an underwing pod. He frequently remarked "What I took a picture of one day, they bombed the next."

He was wheelchair bound, and I often pushed him down to the area for entertainment. My heart sank the day I passed his room and saw his things gone and his bed neatly laid back.



Bob Wright

 

[Snake45]

He was in the 20th Air Force, based in the Philippines, which came as a surprise to me as I thought the 20th was all based in the Marianas. He was a photographer with a photo-recon squadron, and always referred to their planes as P-38s, and they were the standard OD/gray pattern. He made several flights in an underwing pod. He frequently remarked "What I took a picture of one day, they bombed the next."

Bob Wright

I've seen pics of those P-38s with manned, glass-nosed recon pods in the Pacific. One in particular I recall is with some -1D Corsairs. Apparently they wanted to photograph/document some rocket strikes on some attack. It might have been Okinawa, I don't recall. Might have been Philippines.

ETA: Found it, and several I hadn't seen before! Go to this page and scroll down. Even some close-ups of the pod. This wasn't your friend, was it?

https://m1pencil.wordpress.com/category/pictures/page/2/

https://m1pencil.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/close-air-support-codes-and-a-combat-photographer-with-nerves-of-steel/

 

[Bob Wright]

ETA: Found it, and several I hadn't seen before! Go to this page and scroll down. Even some close-ups of the pod. This wasn't your friend, was it?

Don't think so, but that is what he described. I remember only that his name was Paul, and all he ever spoke of was flying over Japan.

Bob Wright

 

[mohavesam]

Gotta love this:

Looks like a P-38. Imagine 400 mph in a setup like that. Like meat on a stick.
What a combat photographer did for a shot... Not me Sir.

 

[H.H. Hipshot]

Captain Roy T. Fling, my uncle, my mom's brother, in 56th FG. Flew P47s.

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=25253192

HHH