Old Winchester lever gun question

[caryc]

I used to have a Winchester lever gun way back, like 40 some years. So, I don't remember this, Does the hammer on the lever have a half cock position?

Watching Wagon Train this morning, two guys standing 20 feet apart. One guy is going to shoot the other guy, so he cocks his Winchester (for affect of course) but his buddy stops him.

Now, what makes me wonder is something I saw on Bonanza years ago. This lady is being chased and is hiding behind a large boulder. She goes to fire her Winchester and she manually cocks the hammer back and shoots. Wow, that's something I've never seen in any western. It's always the old "cock the gun for affect" thing. Evidently she had cocked the rifle previously so she knew there was a round in the chamber. So, I'm guessing she just let the hammer down on a half cock position?

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Suppose in real life she was a "gun girl" familiar with the operation of a lever gun and training took over?

Rick C

 

[Dan in MI]

You made me get up and look. My 92 (1920's vintage) has a half cock. Rack the lever to full cock, hold trigger for initial release and slowly drop the hammer it stops about 1/4" from the breech face. Keep the trigger held and it goes all the way down.

 

[Paul B]

I believe all Winchester lever guns had a half cock and safety notch until they started putting those lawyer mandated safties on their rifles. I also think it was the same with marlin.
Paul B.

 

[Ordguy]

My Model 94 "Antique" bought new in 1983 has a half cock.

 

[NikA]

I believe all Winchester lever guns had a half cock and safety notch until they started putting those lawyer mandated safties on their rifles. I also think it was the same with marlin.
Paul B.

I think this may be true even after the addition of the safeties, hence their popularity. It is certainly true for Rossi copies of the 92 both before and after the addition of the safety.

 

[caryc]

Hi,

Suppose in real life she was a "gun girl" familiar with the operation of a lever gun and training took over?

Rick C

Could be, I suppose. I just found it so odd since you know that no director is going to tell her to not do the "cock for effect" thing.

 

[Bob Wright]

Most all of the lever action and slide action rifles with exposed hammers had the half cock notch, or more correctly, the safety notch.

The rifle was not likely to strike the hammer if it were to be dropped or fall because of the long buttstock, so not as much of a danger as with the handgun. I've hunted many times with a Marlin 39A or a Model 336 with a chambered round and the hammer in that notch. By holding the trigger back when cocking the hammer, the rifle can be fully cocked silently.

Bob Wright

 

[RoninPA]

My 1948 Model 94 in 30 WCF (got from my Dad) has the half cock position and it's solid as a rock in that position.

 

[Bob Wright]

The safety notch on rifles does not pose the potential danger as does the revolver. Even it the rifle is dropped and happens to fall on the hammer the direction of the force does not drive the hammer into the firing pin. That safety notch has been incorporated into nearly every firearm that has an exposed hammer.

Bob Wright

 

[Colonialgirl]

I'll have to dig out my 1927 Win Saddle Carbine in 30-30 and see what if it has the "half-cock" position for the hammer

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

A post-'64, pre-angle eject, pre-external safety 94 (.30-30, of course) lived here for a while. It had the half cock. I dunno that much about Winchester's lever guns but just assumed the half cock went back to Day One.

Rick C

 

[Chief 101]

1. All my Winchester lever guns have half-cock...
2. This thread would be much more interesting with pics...
3. Unfortunately I have no Winchester pics on my Imgur account...

 

[Bob Wright]

1. All my Winchester lever guns have half-cock...
2. This thread would be much more interesting with pics...
3. Unfortunately I have no Winchester pics on my Imgur account...

I can sort of oblige you for pictures of lever actions, meager though they be. Two Marlins and a Winchester:



Bob Wright

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I've hunted many times with a Marlin 39A or a Model 336 with a chambered round and the hammer in that notch. By holding the trigger back when cocking the hammer, the rifle can be fully cocked silently.

Bob Wright

My standard practice as well. None of my lever guns (two pre-safety Marlins and a 1954 Winchester 71) have the lawyer safety. I've found it harder to do with my old model Ruger sixguns. You can hold the trigger back while cocking but there's still an audible click when the bolt drops into it's notch in the cylinder and the hammer and sear find the full cock notch. When you have a deer at 20 yards or less, things can get tense. That "click" has been the last sound quite a few whitetails heard...

 

[Chief 101]

Thanks Bob, I will have to get some mine on film so I can post them when the subject come up...

 

[Bob Wright]

I've hunted many times with a Marlin 39A or a Model 336 with a chambered round and the hammer in that notch. By holding the trigger back when cocking the hammer, the rifle can be fully cocked silently.

Bob Wright

My standard practice as well. None of my lever guns (two pre-safety Marlins and a 1954 Winchester 71) have the lawyer safety. I've found it harder to do with my old model Ruger sixguns. You can hold the trigger back while cocking but there's still an audible click when the bolt drops into it's notch in the cylinder and the hammer and sear find the full cock notch. When you have a deer at 20 yards or less, things can get tense. That "click" has been the last sound quite a few whitetails heard...

I have done this and practice at your own risk: With the Three Screw Ruger, or any other Colt type Single Action, when getting on you stand and secure, cock the hammer fully, then ease it down to the loading notch. Then, when ready to shoot, hold the trigger back and fully cock the gun. This leaves you sitting with a live round under the hammer so extreme care must be taken, but is entirely silent.

Bob Wright

 

[Aqualung]

My Winchester Model 95 and 92 have the half cock notch, as does my Marlin 336.

Aqualung

 

[kmoore]

Bob got it right that is a safety, the half notch. I suppose due to too many people not knowing how to use it or careless enough when they tried to use the notch and fired the gun, maybe by accident. The push button safety seemed a better safety. I know of stories from hunting buddies who had the finger slip off trigger and gun fired. I hunt with several Winchesters that are older without the button safety. When in the field I place a round in chamber and put the hammer on safe. Never once had a AD, always point rifle in safe direction while operating the action. Practice it and do it without distractions. They work.

 

[KIR]

Made me get up and look too. My Winnie 1894 .30 WCF mfg. in 1908 has a half-cock postion as well (not shown).

 

[moparclan]

My 1873 made in 1881 has the half-cock.

 

[toysoldier]

My Rossi 92 has the half-cock notch and lawyer safety. I keep it with an empty chamber, as racking a round is almost as fast as bringing a hammer to full cock. The safety is only used when emptying the magazine, which must be done through the action.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Pictures did someone say pictures???

All of these have half cock both old and new with the thru bolt safety.
I always carried mine with one in the chamber while hunting. I would expect REAL Cowboys did also.

 

[46thnc]

I believe all Winchester lever guns had a half cock and safety notch until they started putting those lawyer mandated safties on their rifles. I also think it was the same with marlin.
Paul B.

My 1950's Marlin lever has a half-cock also.

 

[BearBiologist]

I've had Marlin 1894, 1895, 39, Winchester 92, 94 (old & new), 48, 1895, 1886 (new & old), Rossi, Cimarron 1873, Henry (new) & Navy Arms 1866. All have had 1/2 cock safeties.

 

[buckeyeshooter]

Marlins made before 1984 have no crossbolt safety and Winchesters are a bit more tricky as they first had a 1/2 cock then crossbolt, then later the tang safety.
I delete the crossbolt with an aftermarket kit on the Marlins.
I have sold the 2 Winchester 94's ( big bores in 307
winchester and 444 Marlin) with a Crossbolt and still have 5 Winchesters with the tang safety and 2 that Turnbull's deleted with original lockwork when they worked magic on them.

I have had the crossbolt turn itself on when in a treestand with the Marlin rifle across my legs and I have had the Winchester crossbolt move enough to make the rifle not fire when staged with the left side down while using it in a cowboy action shooting match. Needless to say, I have a very low opinion of the crossbolt.
With the Winchester tang safety, I put a drop of glue in the slot to glue it in the fire position, thus making positive it will not cause me problems.

 

[Mauser9]

Thanks for the pic of the 1873 moparclan. My favorite overall. The real gun that won the west. Too bad Winchester quit making em back in 1919. All the cowboy westerns from the 50s-60s would have the correct period guns instead of using those 1892-94 Winnys

 

[kmoore]

When your watching a movie or TV show. Forget what your watching is really how things work or are done. Think about how many times that scene was shot. Each a little different, maybe over a day.
So we know with that style of rifle to fire it you need to lever the action. When it closes the hammer is in full cock. Safe handling means if your not going to shoot it, the hammer should be placed on half cock or in the safety notch.
I did not see what was decried in post #1 but it could have been the actor was handed the rifle in a half cock position once she was in her position. The close up may show her pulling the hammer back and shooting. The other scenes could even be close up of the rifle firing but with a different actor or stuntman. We just don't know.
Far too many directors are not gun wise at all. It's all about what looks cool. They tend to show anyone with a gun cocking or chambering it just before running into a shooting.