Old Army - any tips?

[tacotime]

Stainless Old Army, used. Just for plinking and targets for fun. Thinking the .457 round ball, and sounds like 777 may be the best powder choice?

Magnum caps?

Ordered some lubed wads. Aside from the wads, do some folks skip them and just coat the balls with liquid Alox and use no other sealers? If so is that risky?

A guy said Crisco for a chamber sealer?

Ruger manual says some water pump greases work?

Does anyone use patches with round balls in revolvers?

Any cleaning tips?

Thanks!

 

[Klondike Mike]

Real black powder and Crisco over the balls. Good smokey fun.

 

[Long Haul]

I use standard # 11 caps and wads made out of a old felt hat lubed with bore butter.Casting .454 lead balls and using my home made black powder I can shoot pretty cheap.Load the powder then the lubed wad then the ball.

 

[INDY45]

Standard #11 caps, Black powder, Corn meal for chamber filler and a .457 round ball.I use no grease and let the fun begin.

 

[Kanook]

I use Shockeys gold under a .457 ball for hunting.

As long as when you seat your balls and get a small lead ring from it , no need for lube, most of it melts off in the florida sun. Use caps that fit properly on your nipples also.

If I remember correctly, 777 is not to be compressed as hard as real black or substitutes.

Keep your nipple threads greased after each use and you will not have them rust on. I've purchased 3 that had this problem, sent them to Clements and had them fixed and had the cylinders deepened.

I also use a loading stand to load my cylinders.

 

[NorEaster]

Taco,
This could potentially grow into a long thread as everyone does it a little differently
Use caps and balls that fit properly and work from there
I use 3F Shockey's Gold or American Pioneer powder
777 will provide you with a hotter load
As far as clean up goes... that will get a number of different methods from all as well
I use hot water and murphy's oil soap
When cleaning, I remove the nipples and scrub separately.
I lube the threads of mine with TC gorilla grease

 

[cagedodger]

If I remember correctly, 777 is not to be compressed as hard as real black or substitutes.

Not exactly right. 777can be used/loaded/compressed just like BP. It does have about 15% more bang than BP per unit volume.

Casting .454 lead balls...

Should be using .457 balls.

Another thing not mentioned above is a powder measure.

The more evenly you measure the loads, the more consistant the accuracy.

You will find that the ROA is most accurate at about 25 - 30 gr. loads, not to mention getting more shots per can of bang dust.

Although firing a full load charge is fun too; lots of smoke.

Cage 8)

 

[Kanook]

http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html

lightly compressed for cartridge, firmly for front stuffer, no air space.

I remembered correctly, wrong application. 8)

 

[Rclark]

In my ROA, I use 777 almost exclusively as it is readily available here. Just ram the ball down on the powder and wad and you are good to go making sure ball is seated below lip of cylinder ... Either FFF or FF. No need to treat 777 special. I like 40g under the .457 ball. I also use cream of wheat as my wad. No grease for me. Just powder, cream of wheat, and ball. Then cap. Oh, I also use lee dippers for the 'powder' and wad measures (I forget which size dipper matches approximately 40g). A bit faster than setting the gun down, pouring from flask to powder measure, and then picking the gun up and pouring into chamber.... Using the dippers, I don't have to set the gun down as I can dip and pour powder, dip and pour wad, then seat the ball.

Never pour from a flask to chamber.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Some info from other post.

If you don't want to use a filler or wad. Since the ROA requires around 30+- gra. to seat the ball. Just take a 38 lead bullet and place it between the ball and ramer so the ball can be seated all the way. That is one of the reason I use a press to load the cyl. out of the gun.



Well Pards,
I shoot both ROAs and Vaqueros in 32 and 45 Colt. I use Goex 3F in my pistols and Triple 7 in the rifle.
I use both balls and smokeless lubed bullets in all my pistols. I DO NOT use grease on the front of the cylinder. All I do is wipe off the face of the cylinder every couple of stages and put some Balistol on the cylinder base pin. Sometimes if I remember I will squirt some down the barrel I think that is where some of the binding comes from. If you compare a ROA and Vaquero you will see that they are different. The ROA is cut down in the middle so only about a 1/8" on each end of the cylinder rides on the base pin. My guns will run for 10 stages without cleaning any more than that. At one match my pard and I both shot the 32s with smokeless bullets and Goex 3F That was a total of 20 stages. All I did was as mentioned above. When the cylinder does bind on the 45s, which is not often and never on the ROAs or 32s, I put the Balisitol on the base pin.
When I do clean them Windex down the barrel and cylinders takes all the crud out. Then I run patches with Balistol in them. No lead or grunge left in them. Also during the match ya stay a lot cleaner. My hands don't even get very dirty.
The Barrel to Cylinder gap on the Vaquero 45s and 32s are .004.006 and the ROAs are .008.
If you are using a petroleum base oil the gun will bind real fast Hope this helps.
In my opinion we don't need a whole lot of accuracy at the ranges we shoot. Even a dirty barrel will still be good enough.
Jim.

Be glad to share.
I use 25 Grs. Goex 3F Blackpowder along with a pure lead .454 ball. My Pard cast the balls and also cast .454 lead bullets for me. The caps are the most important thing in getting the gun to go bang EVERY TIME. Remington #10s work and is the only ones I use.. I do not put any grease on top of the balls. No need when you use a tight fitting ball.
I also use a press due to the fact that the rammer on the ROA is not long enough to push the ball to the top of the powder when using 20 Grs.. Also the press is much faster way to load. You can get by with this load with a filler, more of a pain or put a 38 Cal. bullet on top of the ball and use it to seat the ball all the way. Just remember to remove it after all the balls are seated.
Once you get the hang of loading it goes fast. I load and cap with the cylinder out of the gun. When it is time to shoot I install cyls. and make sure the caps are seated all the way with my push stick.
Hope this helps,
Jim

OK Pards,
After reading this http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9093.0
on the wire and this from the Treso site
Use # 11 caps. Cap & Ball Nipples have a .174" shoulder size.
What caps do you use? I have been using Remington #10 with both Ruger and Treso nipples with great success for the last 6 years. I was going to try some #11 seems Treso should know. Just about everybody I know uses Remmie #10s.
Thank,
Wyandot
.
I have shot 1000s of rounds through my ROAs in CAS matches. I do not use grease. It is not required with a tight fit ball. I do not get leading or hard fouling. For those that use pure Crisco you are just fooling your selves. Most of it has melted and run out the chamber on the first few shoots. ROAs have a cylinder bushing unlike the Colts that need the face of the cylinder LUBED to keep from binding with the barrel. If you use grease make it 50-50 Crisco and bees wax.
Never fire a C&B with a charged cylinder and NO CAP or pinch a cap to make it fit. If you watch the slow mos of a C&B firing you will see why. There is as much fire at the rear of the cylinder as the front.
That is why there is so much residue on the rear of the cylinder. It is from the cap and blow back from the BP.

 

[Montelores]

"Never pour from a flask to chamber."


Is the reason for this to prevent an accidental undercharge?

Or to ensure an accurate load?

The manual states:

It is safe to use as much Black Powder as the chamber will hold, leaving room for the bullet. This maximum loading is not usually the most accurate loading, however.

Thanks -

Monty

P.S. Who sells the cylinder loading press?

 

[Kanook]

The reason for not loading directly from the flask, if a spark runs up, no more hand.

Powder inc has the best cylinder loader for me.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

The reason for not loading directly from the flask, if a spark runs up, no more hand.

Powder inc has the best cylinder loader for me.

I use a flask and have for many years. All the guys I shoot CAS with do also. After you have measured the charge it has a spring that returns it to the closed position. Colt make the flask to load a pistol. :wink:

 

[Kanook]

Not all flasks have a powder stopper and please record when it explodes in your hand. Doing it wrong with no consequence does Not make it right.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Not all flasks have a powder stopper and please record when it explodes in your hand. Doing it wrong with no consequence does Not make it right.

Well buy the one that has the stopper. Anything can go wrong or right at anytime. I believe in the the right. Have made it to 70 years old so far. :wink: Go on and believe the sky is falling

 

[Kanook]

The sky is not falling, it's your finger tips. And being 70 has nothing to do with it, unless you are implying that your age is why your right? Sorry , ain't buying it. I guess that me being NRA certified in Muzzleloading pistol instruction might have more to do with my reasoning on being right.

You want to do it wrong, don't do it near me or preach to the new shooter that your way is best. YOU nor I will be there if something goes wrong. Kinda like using .454 balls in a firearm that states to use .457 in the manual. Again another reason why not to trust you.

Yes you have a lot of match wins, so do I. Difference is, I have never endangered someone else with arrogance.

 

[woodsy]

Have you ever seen so many conflicting pieces of advice?
Download the manual from Ruger and start there.

 

[Rclark]

The reason for not loading directly from the flask, if a spark runs up, no more hand.

That is the reason as I understood it... However in revolver it may not be as critical as in a single shot or rifle that was just shot and smoking... My 'flask' doesn't empty 40g (or 30 or 35) anyway, so it must be poured into a powder measure first. Using a wide mouth plastic container to dip from works great for me at range where you have tables, and the flask&measure in the field .


There is a lot of different methods each of us has developed over the years that work best for us. You'll find that out when you start loading your own.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

The sky is not falling, it's your finger tips. And being 70 has nothing to do with it, unless you are implying that your age is why your right? Sorry , ain't buying it. I guess that me being NRA certified in Muzzleloading pistol instruction might have more to do with my reasoning on being right.

You want to do it wrong, don't do it near me or preach to the new shooter that your way is best. YOU nor I will be there if something goes wrong. Kinda like using .454 balls in a firearm that states to use .457 in the manual. Again another reason why not to trust you.

Yes you have a lot of match wins, so do I. Difference is, I have never endangered someone else with arrogance.

As far as the .454 and .457s go on my OA the chambers are tight for some reason. I started using .457s at first but as the fouling builds they get even tighter. Ya ever hear of Ruger 45 Colt chambers being to small. Also I buy my 454s from my bullet guy and they tend to be a little bigger.
I didn't say my way was best but it does work and is safe. Shooting C@Bs is hard enough so you don't need to make it harder for the new guy. That is the reason a lot of guys quit after awhile.
Like I said they make a flask with different size spouts for a reason. Wonder what was used around 1847.
By the way you started with the arrogance crap. I just stated that they make Pistol Flask that are safe to use.

 

[tacotime]

Ok... I see those points... Thanks.

Looks like it's Pyrodex for starters and if they arrive in time, some .457 balls and some over-priced Thompson lubed wads.

I guess it's cornmeal for the lesser charges and no grease unless the balls ar not shaving.

Sound like a fair start?

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Ok... I see those points... Thanks.

Looks like it's Pyrodex for starters and if they arrive in time, some .457 balls and some over-priced Thompson lubed wads.

I guess it's cornmeal for the lesser charges and no grease unless the balls ar not shaving.

Sound like a fair start?

If you want to use Pyrodex just remember that it is more corrosive than the other subs and BP. I would find a charge that didn't require a filler. Just makes it a PITA to load. The BP charge recoil isn't much different with 20 or 30 grs. Bullet weight makes the difference. A ball is only 147gr so not much recoil. I shoot my Walker with close to 60grs. and not bad.
As long as you have a snug fitting ball you will be fine. Just make sure to use tight fitting caps. That is where most of the chain fires come from. Yep wads cost way to much and are not needed IMHO. Most all the CAS guys also feel the same way.
Capt Geo Baylor a CAS has a very good site for BP. Have known and shot with him for 10 years. http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html give it a look

 

[cagedodger]

"no grease unless the balls ar(e) not shaving"

Something I thought I'd never read on Ruger Forum. :shock: :lol:

Cage 8)

 

[eveled]

Has anybody used wads to shoot bird shot from their Old Army? Seems like it would be fun to shoot at some hand thrown targets. Ed

 

[tacotime]

Not me - I haven't shot anything out of it yet. Package of first round balls delayed by blizzard...

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Rule #1: They are fun to shoot! So do it often. I have 2 7.5" SS adj sight ones, and a 5.5" SS fixed sight model. They get used a lot, more than I ever anticipated, in fact. They can be remarkably accurate.

Rule #2: Read the manual. Then read it again.

Rule #3: Do not, even for a moment, think you can put it away without at least some rudimentary form of cleaning after a shooting session, even if you intend to do a more thorough cleaning "later". I have my own special "moose milk" concoction, mostly Dawn/ballistol/alcohol/water and some other stuff, that gets sprayed into the cylinder charge holes, around the nipples, and swabbed down the bore, and a general cursory wipedown. You can clean it properly in hot water later at home.

I load as much Goex 3F as I can (ca.35-37gr) and still seat a pure lead .457 roundball (that I roll in some lube before seating) just below the cylinder mouth, without a wad, use a Rem #10 cap and set them with a final push from a wooden dowel to seat them firmly on the nipples (most chain fire problems are more related to an improperly seated cap than at the muzzle if a properly sized ball is used, and that means .457 w/o a wad), then fire away. I find it helps to tilt the muzzle up when cocking to keep the fired cap pieces out of the works, but this is always subject to your experience handling the revolver and range safety considerations.

Rule #4: TWO of them fired cowboy action gunfighter style, i.e. one in each hand firing sequentially, is even more fun that shooting one of them!

 

[eveled]

I know it has been said before, but it is a real shame that Ruger chose to discontinue these great revolvers. Is there any chance they will come back? Ed

 

[cagedodger]

I know it has been said before, but it is a real shame that Ruger chose to discontinue these great revolvers. Is there any chance they will come back? Ed

Only if they can bring William B. Ruger back...

He once said they would continue to produce the Old Army as long as he was alive.

Cage 8)

 

[CraigC]

Pistol flasks are made for loading and always have been. Safety police concerns aside, A LOT of people for A LOT of years have been using pistol flasks to load their sixguns and I've never heard of one blowing up. If it were such a danger, do you really think they would still be marketed in this litigious society? Like some other myths and legends (handloads for self defense), lots of fear-mongering but little to no evidence to support this irrational fear.

If .454" balls fit, use `em. :roll:

 

[Kanook]

An unleaded fuel nozzle fits real easy in a diesel pipe, guess it fine to use.

The proplem is everybody ASSumes that they new shooter will go out and buy the same set up that they are using. WRONG. I've got friends that use a powder horn with no stopper. To use a brass powder flask with the easy pour stopper wasn't mentioned untill I said not to use a flask.

Let the new shooter LEARN the RIGHT way first and then alter to suit their needs as they see fit. To start out with short cuts is not safe for the sport at all.

I still can't figure stating that using .454 balls is fine without saying that his cylinder is undersized to begin with. Still, all the money in those custom revolvers and not having the cylinders opened. Don't get me wrong, I've only had 20 to 25 ROA's and not one had undersized chambers. Guess I've been lucky.

 

[Rclark]

I've only had 20 to 25 ROA's and not one had undersized chambers.

Gads ... and I thought I was lucky to pick just 'one' up .