New Vaquero's - interchangeable cylinders?

[Lou_NC]

I've owned a pair of Ruger New Vaquero's for a couple of years, and have shot them off and on in Cowboy Action matches at my club. I've been meaning to ask about this for some time and finally got around to posting it.

I've noticed when cleaning the two revolvers (not a matched set, by the way) that there are no serial markings or witness marks of any sort on the cylinders. Yesterday when cleaning them I swapped the cylinders and both revolvers seemed to lock up and dry-fire fine.

Is this the way all the New Vaquero's are made? I'm wondering whether this interchangeability is possible as a result of Ruger's manufacturing methods holding tight enough tolerances, or maybe the designs themselves are inherently made to allow interchangeability to some degree (such as the 1911).

My only point of comparison are Smith and Wesson double action revolvers, where interchanging a cylinder typically requires factory fitting. (I don't own any of the original Ruger Vaquero or Blackhawk single actions, so I don't know whether this interchangeability has always been possible with Ruger single actions).

Thanks,
Lou

 

[BlackEagle]

Yup, cylinders from similar (and sometimes pretty different) Rugers will interchange sometimes. The guns are designed so the cylinders don't lock up super tight (it improves accuracy) so there is a fair amount of play in each one independent of the gun it is fit to.

 

[Mus408]

Would this include swapping a .45 ACP coversion cylinder,into a NV LC .45?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Most cylinders are custom fit to their frames at the factory. If a cylinder fits another gun, it is dumb luck, nothing more. Yes, I have a pair of 357 Mag New Vaqueros and the cylinders will fit back and forth in either gun. Dumb luck. I also have a pair of Stainless 'original model' Vaqueros in 45 Colt. The cylinders will not interchange. In fact, one cylinder will not even fit into the frame window of the other gun. The barrel extends too far into the frame window to allow the other cylinder to drop in.

As far as cylinders not locking up tight and making for better accuracy, with all due respect, that is incorrect. The best accuracy is achieved from a revolver that has been tuned so that when the cylinder locks up there is absolutely no play at all. In addition, for a truly accurate revolver, the chamber throat diameters must be carefully matched to the rifling groove diameter, and the chambers must be correctly lined up with the bore. If the revolver does not lock up perfectly, the forcing cone has to redirect the bullet into the bore. In doing so, the bullet will often be slightly deformed. This does not contribute to accuracy.

That's why revolver smiths who accurize revolvers are worth what they are paid. They take a run of the mill production gun and tweak it to get things just right.

 

[flatgate]

It's been stated by more than one source that Ruger's slop in the cylinder lock-up can indeed improve the accuracy when compared to a tightly locked cylinder that's NOT in perfect alignment with the bore.

It's common knowledge that a "line bored" and properly chambered and properly fit cylinder will "win the match".

flatgate

 

[jlinz]

I'm curious about one of the above questions by Mus408. Anyone comment on how well a new vaquero 45 acp cylinder will fit a new vaquero 45 LC frame and vice versa? My guess would be some if not most would work but its a guess. I was considering a montado 45 LC to match a birdshead 45 acp. It would be really nice if I could exchange cylinders. Im a fan of 357 mags, but 45s continue to grow on me, especially with shorter barrels the 45s are starting to make a lot of sense to me.

 

[contender]

Flatgate has in a few words explained why many Rugers are accurate. As a bullet leaves the cylinder, it enters the barrel. If the cylinder was tightly locked, but not in perfect alignment with the bore, the bullet will be deformed & not be as accurate & likely spit lead. By having a SMALL amount of side to side play, as the bullet enters the barrel, it will "shift the cylinder" into alignment & allow the bullet to enter the barrel properly. Think of it in VERY slow motion. As the nose of the bullet enters the barrel, the base is still in the cylinder. As such, it'll align the cylinder with the barrel before the base leaves the cylinder. But, as noted, the absolute best is of course, line bored & all things already perfectly aligned & fitted.
That is why custom pistolsmiths charge the fees they do. Lots of work to get one completely trued up.

As for swapping cylinders.
It isn't just "dumb luck" either.
Do a history search around here & you will see spare cylinders sell all the time. You will see how often a person can buy a cylinder & have it drop in & work in a different gun. The biggest thing will be the OAL. USUALLY! Yes, occasionally a cylinder will not lock up & time properly. But most of the time, a cylinder of the same model type will drop in if the OAL is the same. When we buy extra cylinders, we look at the OAL. We prefer to find one the same or a few thousands over what we currently have. That way we can hone a few thousands off the front of the cylinder & have it drop in.
And, without going into my safe & digging out a bunch of guns, I can't measure the differences in the Vaqueros & the New Vaqueros to see if cylinders will swap around between those two models. I will say that the Vaqueros are the same size as the Blackhawks, but the scaled down New Vaquero may not be the same diameter or length.
We've had this discussion before & I can not recall the details.
Just so the folks who wonder about all this,,, I happen to own over 20 spare cylinders that are not matched to a gun I own. Why? Because I do occasionally buy a gun that was shipped as a convertible & is missing it's original spare cylinder. I've never had an "odd" spare cylinder fail to work when the OAL was right.
Ruger's tolerances have allowed this to be a normal occurance.

 

[street]

contender !!! You could not explained that any better if you took 10 years the get the words that you needed! Good job! I don't think anyone could find fault with what you said. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[pisgah]

Modern manufacturing techniques have reduced tolerances to tiny fractions of an inch; thus, it is very common for a cylinder from one Ruger to fit another Ruger with no fitting needed. But, tolerances do exist, and when the draw from the parts bin is unlucky those tiny tolerances can "stack", meaning a bit of hand-fitting may be required to make it all work. Buying a spare cylinder these days is a pretty safe bet, but it is still to some extent a gamble.

 

[contender]

Dern street, you made me blush! I take it as a compliment when you praise me like that!

 

[JimMarch1]

Between 2004 and 2007 Ruger changed the way cylinders on the SA series are made. The improvement is that the cylinder bores are now cut one at a time in sequence all with the same bit/reamer set. Chamber uniformity went way up from the previous setup where all six chambers were bored all at once with six bit/reamer sets. Other changes to the cylinder making process happened around the same time and we've been getting better cylinders since.

The first Ruger SA to get this was the New Vaquero, followed by the 50th Anniversary 357 Blackhawk Flattop, the 50th 44Magnum BH Flattop (the first large-frame to get the treatment) and then starting in 2007 everything else. At some point the Single Six got it, not sure when...but that's why we have 9rd and 10rd variants .

I strongly suspect that cylinders made the new way will swap guns easier than ones made the old way.

 

[rugerguy]

that's right , which brings up the 'calibers' PLEASE do NOT ever forget and put your 44 or 45 caliber "new" cylinder in the 357 mag frame....... :shock:
(hopefully barrel set back ( gaps) are different in the various calibers) but knowing 'bubba' down the street, he sits at his kitchen table figuring out how to make 'er fit...... :roll:
a couple of beers, or overnight, I'd bet HE forgets !!!!