NEW LC9 or LC380 TRIGGER KIT AVAILABLE

[robkarrob]

Check the Galloway Precision web site: http://gallowayprecision.com . The new trigger bars are listed and up for sale for the LC9!!! Choose at the top left, LC9/LC380 Performance. The bars are listed at the top. The trigger bar fits both the LC9 and the LC380. Eric said all orders he gets from now thru early Monday will ship out on Monday. FINALLY THEY ARE AVAILABLE!!!

The Pricing and Add to Cart Button will be on the website tomorrow. Today the site only has the description listed. This trigger bar will reduce the pull length 35% (a little more that 1/4 inch) and will move the break point forward 1/4 inch, no longer breaking at the rear of the trigger guard. They will later have a 50% reduction bar, which will reduce the pull length about 3/8 inch and move the break point forward about 3/8 inch. The difference between these two kits is less that 1/8 inch.

Bob

 

[blume357]

Robkarrob,

You wouldn't happen to know T. Doty who live just north of you? He is a friend of mine and has been known to build guns... but most of what he builds fires 600-1200 rounds a minute and of course he can't sell to us commoners.

 

[robkarrob]

No I do not know this person. I have a .308/7.62 AR with a Slidefire stock, which works great and is legal for us all to own. It fires at around 600-800 rounds per minute. 1 or 2 full mags is all I can afford to shoot per outing, plus I don't want to overheat the barrel.

Bob

 

[maddmaxx]

Does this mod really help much? I use the LC9 for a CCW pistol but I went to the range Saturday and could not hit the paper at 20 feet with more than 1 of 5 rounds with the LC9. I did just fine with my SIG 228 and my Walther P22. I think if I needed the LC9 that I would be better off throwing it at the attacker than shooting it. I am not new to shooting but just cant shoot this LC9! I think the Long stiff trigger pull causes me to shoot very low. Anyone want a LC9? I think that I want to get the XDS9.

 

[robkarrob]

The biggest complaint for the LC9 has always been the long, deep breaking trigger pull. It has a heavy pull, but the deep breaking is what causes the inaccuracy in shooting. I had to either change my grip or pull from the second finger joint, not the tip joint pad. I have the Galloway original trigger kit installed in my LC9, and I will attach a link to the video of my trigger pull. This new trigger kit will have about 20% more trigger movement than my trigger, and that only amounts to about 1/8 inch more travel. Galloway Precision will soon be coming out with another trigger kit, with a similar pull distance as shown in the video of my trigger pull. Understand I have a trigger over travel stop. If this stop was not there, there would be about 1/16 to 3/32 inch more trigger over travel, after the break. I also straightened the stock curved trigger. It is much straighter/flatter and makes for a more comfortable pull. I heated the trigger, straightened it, and then polished the trigger.

Bob

Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6fUiErOGdA

 

[Pappygator]

Robkarrob, I've watched your u-tube videos and have done the original trigger job on my 380. Your videos, with such great detail, answered all my questions about this mod. I would like to personally thank you for your help. I can also that my experience with Eric Galloway was also first class. Great service.

 

[revhigh]

Why not just buy a gun ... ESPECIALLY FOR CARRY ... That you can live with out of the box ? Is saving a few bucks by buying a cheap plastic Ruger really worth it if you have to add $100 worth of aftermarket parts to make it useable ? And then end up with an unwarranted, potentially unreliable, or dangerous gun ?

Trying to make a gun with an absolutely terrible trigger better by adding a bunch of unproven, unwarranted parts to it by some amateur 'gunsmith' at the kitchen table is a fools errand. You have absolutely no idea how those parts will affect the gun's safety and functioning (and neither does Ruger, which is why they wash their hands of it). Carrying a weapon modified like that is certainly asking for trouble should a CCW shooting occur, or if an accident happens at the range.

Don't you guys even examine the guns, and try out the triggers on the guns you buy before you hand over your cash ? If a gun has a terrible trigger in the store ... It sure as hell isn't coming home with me.


REV

 

[revhigh]

I went to the range Saturday and could not hit the paper at 20 feet with more than 1 of 5 rounds with the LC9.

I think that I want to get the XDS9.

It's all about trigger control and practice. I can easily hit a paper plate every time at 50 feet with my KT P3AT, but I've been shooting for 40 years.

Why didn't you just get the better gun to start with ? There's no way to safely and cost effectively make a terrible trigger better .... Other than by buying a gun with a better trigger.


REV

 

[bulldog51]

hi guys,question, will this new trigger kit change the trigger?meaning will it make the trigger a light trigger? or does it mean it only makes the trigger break earlier?does it change how the gun functions? please explain....ty bulldog51.

 

[robkarrob]

It does not change the trigger pull weight. It shortens the pull and moves the break point forward. Gallowayprecision.com has other springs for the Bodyguard that change other aspects of the gun. Go to the website and read the descriptions on the trigger and springs.

Bob

 

[Pappygator]

Why not just buy a gun ... ESPECIALLY FOR CARRY ... That you can live with out of the box ? Is saving a few bucks by buying a cheap plastic Ruger really worth it if you have to add $100 worth of aftermarket parts to make it useable ? And then end up with an unwarranted, potentially unreliable, or dangerous gun ?

Trying to make a gun with an absolutely terrible trigger better by adding a bunch of unproven, unwarranted parts to it by some amateur 'gunsmith' at the kitchen table is a fools errand. You have absolutely no idea how those parts will affect the gun's safety and functioning (and neither does Ruger, which is why they wash their hands of it). Carrying a weapon modified like that is certainly asking for trouble should a CCW shooting occur, or if an accident happens at the range.

Don't you guys even examine the guns, and try out the triggers on the guns you buy before you hand over your cash ? If a gun has a terrible trigger in the store ... It sure as hell isn't coming home with me.


REV

The only reason I bought this pistol and modified it was because I am an idiot and wanted someone with all their wisdom to call me on it. Please feel free to scold, lecture and berate me any time I step out of line.

 

[revhigh]

Why not just buy a gun ... ESPECIALLY FOR CARRY ... That you can live with out of the box ? Is saving a few bucks by buying a cheap plastic Ruger really worth it if you have to add $100 worth of aftermarket parts to make it useable ? And then end up with an unwarranted, potentially unreliable, or dangerous gun ?

Trying to make a gun with an absolutely terrible trigger better by adding a bunch of unproven, unwarranted parts to it by some amateur 'gunsmith' at the kitchen table is a fools errand. You have absolutely no idea how those parts will affect the gun's safety and functioning (and neither does Ruger, which is why they wash their hands of it). Carrying a weapon modified like that is certainly asking for trouble should a CCW shooting occur, or if an accident happens at the range.

Don't you guys even examine the guns, and try out the triggers on the guns you buy before you hand over your cash ? If a gun has a terrible trigger in the store ... It sure as hell isn't coming home with me.


REV

The only reason I bought this pistol and modified it was because I am an idiot and wanted someone with all their wisdom to call me on it. Please feel free to scold, lecture and berate me any time I step out of line.

Nah ... No need for scolding .... Sounds like you got a handle on it !


REV

 

[Tomky]

I have had the Galloway trigger bar and hammer on my LC9 for a couple of months now and it is great. Before I never knew how I was going to shoot with that pistol after a few weeks period having not shot it. Now with the shorter trigger pull I am confident and consistent with the pistol. It was well worth the money and makes the pistol a pleasure to shoot. It gives me much more confidence when I carry. I highly recommend this modification, despite some of the naysayers. The LC9 is a good pistol, with this mod it makes a great pistol, for me.

 

[ruger9two]

As you all know, the stock trigger pull is hella-long, breaking a hair before the trigger touches the frame. With the new 35% trigger bar installed, it does shorten the pull, and the trigger breaks about 1/4" forward of the frame.

my vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXN7SpMrXP4

...I'm still going to get the 50% bar when it becomes available.

 

[Captains1911]

Why didn't you just get the better gun to start with ? There's no way to safely and cost effectively make a terrible trigger better .... Other than by buying a gun with a better trigger.


REV

Simply an ignorant, misinformed statement indeed. There are hundreds if not thousands of reliable, proven, and relatively inexpensive products on the market that modify triggers to the shooter's liking on all kinds of different firearms.

 

[revhigh]

Care to name a few of those thousands of products/companies that are warranted by either the original manufacturer or the aftermarket company ... or where the aftermarket company doesn't specifically disclaim liability ?

REV

 

[Captains1911]

Care to name a few of those thousands of products/companies that are warranted by either the original manufacturer or the aftermarket company ... or where the aftermarket company doesn't specifically disclaim liability ?

REV

What's it have to do with warranty? You made a statement to the effect that there's nothing aftermarket to make a trigger better. This is a fallacy. Most firearms manufacturers also state that shooting anything other than factory loaded ammo will void the warranty....

 

[revhigh]

Disclaimed liability is a HUGE parameter. If there's ever an accident at the range or a CCW shoot you are potentially screwed with aftermarket parts.

Any hack at the kitchen table or aftermarket compsny can make a lighter or shorter trigger.

But will they stand behind it ? In most cases ... No

If a company disclaims liability ... their product is an unnecessay risk IMO.

REV

 

[hittman]

Rev ~

Stop it. You're wasting your time. They have a singular focus of toying with their firearms. I suppose it's a macho thing, I really don't know.

Some learn from others mistakes, expense and heartache and some ...... not so much.

Seems there's a lot of denial and "it'll never happen to me".

In the end, when things go bad, it's ALL gun owners who get a black eye over it. They couldn't care less.

 

[Captains1911]

Aftermarket parts in regards to defensive shootings is meaningless. The theoyry that an otherwise justifiable shoot is negated by the fact that the tool used was modified from its factory configuration is absolute hogwash that gets spread all over the interwebs to ridiculous extent. You can think whatever you like though.

If "toying with weapons" results in a firearm that I can deploy reliably and with greater effectiveness, then call me "macho," I really don't give a yugo.

If you really believe that the installstion of a trigger component in my gun is going to somehow give gun owners a bad name....I'm not even sure how to intelligently reply to that.

 

[revhigh]

Aftermarket parts in regards to defensive shootings is meaningless. The idea that it an otherwise justifiable shoot is negated by the fact that the tool used was modified from its factory configuration is absolute hogwash that gets spread all over the interwebs to ridiculous extent. You can think whatever you like.

If "toying with weapons" results in a firearm that I can deploy reliably and with greater effectiveness, then call me "macho," I really don't give a yugo.

Yeah right ... good luck with that defense ... typical unresearched point of view..

REV

 

[Captains1911]

Aftermarket parts in regards to defensive shootings is meaningless. The idea that it an otherwise justifiable shoot is negated by the fact that the tool used was modified from its factory configuration is absolute hogwash that gets spread all over the interwebs to ridiculous extent. You can think whatever you like.

If "toying with weapons" results in a firearm that I can deploy reliably and with greater effectiveness, then call me "macho," I really don't give a yugo.

Yeah right ... good luck with that defense ... typical unresearched point of view..

REV

You don't know me from Adam. What's your experience with self defense shootings and trials? What relationships do you have with defense attorneys that specialize in self defense? Talk about "unresearched" opinions....

Why don't you provide an example of where a modified firearm was used against a defendant? I'll be waiting.

 

[revhigh]

Aftermarket parts in regards to defensive shootings is meaningless. The idea that it an otherwise justifiable shoot is negated by the fact that the tool used was modified from its factory configuration is absolute hogwash that gets spread all over the interwebs to ridiculous extent. You can think whatever you like.

If "toying with weapons" results in a firearm that I can deploy reliably and with greater effectiveness, then call me "macho," I really don't give a yugo.

Yeah right ... good luck with that defense ... typical unresearched point of view..

REV

You don't know me from Adam. What's your experience with self defense shootings and trials? What relationships do you have with defense attorneys that specialize in self defense? Talk about "unresearched" opinions....

Why don't you provide an example of where a modified firearm was used against a defendant? I'll be waiting.

Uh huh ... I have to be personally have involved to present a valid point of view.

Hope you got deep pockets ... because you're on your own with aftermarket parts.

REV

 

[Captains1911]

Uh huh. As I expected.
You made the unresearched point of view accusation. So show me the results of your research to support your claim. Meanwhile I'll rely on my experience with people whose careers depend on knowing the insides and outs of self defense and what matters in a court of law.

 

[hittman]

Rev ~ told ya.

The bigger picture has passed them by without notice.

The goal would be to AVOID being sued or giving a potential plaintiff ammunition (pun intended) to use against you in a civil suit. If you're sued civilly and win; you still lose. If you're prosecuted criminally and found not guilty; you still lose. Your time, your aggravation, your life savings, your reputation, etc.

Some err on the side of caution, others don't. I prefer to not temp fate, others are welcome to do as they wish.

Regardless, the thread has migrated away from trigger kits. The legal and common sense aspect is another discussion for another thread.

My apologies to the OP.

 

[Captains1911]

Rev ~ told ya.

The bigger picture has passed them by without notice.

The goal would be to AVOID being sued or giving a potential plaintiff ammunition (pun intended) to use against you in a civil suit. If you're sued civilly and win; you still lose. If you're prosecuted criminally and found not guilty; you still lose. Your time, your aggravation, your life savings, your reputation, etc.

Some err on the side of caution, others don't. I prefer to not temp fate, others are welcome to do as they wish.

Regardless, the thread has migrated away from trigger kits. The legal and common sense aspect is another discussion for another thread.

My apologies to the OP.

And some are so smart and smug that it makes me laugh.

 

[hittman]

And some are so smart and smug that it makes me laugh.

Name calling advances your argument ...... zero.

Ask George Zimmerman how things are ..... gun mods or Zombie ammo wasn't even brought up in his trial.

 

[robkarrob]

The only way a modified gun would have any bearing on a criminal or civil case would be if it was accidentally fired. All my handguns have modifications that allow me to shoot better. I am not the least bit concerned about legal problems. The guns are easier for me to shoot and shoot more accurately, while remaining safe to handle.

Accidental discharge is the key difference. With a bone stock gun, you will be liable, as somehow during handling of the gun it discharged. Depending on the circumstances you could face criminal charges, but for injury or death you would likely face civil charges. The civil attorney suing you may also go after the gun manufacturer, (unsafe design, and deep pockets). With modifications to a gun, the first question would be "could those modifications have made the gun less safe than the stock gun? Was the cause of the discharge related to any of the modifications?" If the answer is yes, or could be yes, to either of those questions, then you could criminally face some type of negligent charges (you did not intend it to happen). If you are sued in a civil court, the modifications will be used to convince the jury to award higher damages, as the gun was "not safe and was more likely to discharge". With modifications to the gun, the gun manufacturer would most likely not be included in the lawsuit, as your modifications made the gun less safe, not their design.

The above is for accidental discharge. If you shoot someone with intent (you thought about it, took action, and completed your intent), then any modifications would not matter. If you had a trigger pull that was so light it would fire if a fly landed on the trigger, it still would not matter. It was not an accidental discharge. You had intent (thought about shooting the person, even for only a second). You took action (you aimed the gun and pulled the trigger). You completed your intent (the gun fired and the bullet hit your target). In this situation, depending on the circumstances, the charges could be nothing (a self defense situation) all the way up to first degree murder (you planned it and carried it out). Even if this shooting was determined to be an obvious SD situation, and no criminal charges are filed, you still will likely be sued by the victim, or the victim's family. You could be totally in the right by defending yourself or family, and you will still be sued. Most people are not aware of the costs of defending themselves in a "good" shooting. As we all know, in our country you can sue for almost anything. The costs for defending yourself would fall upon you, with little chance of recovering those costs. Many people have gone bankrupt, from attorney fees, defending themselves from a civil trial for damages. I am not saying to not shoot because you may get sued. I would shoot to save a life, but I know what the results of that shooting could be.

If you shoot someone and intended to shoot them, it would not matter at all how you modified the gun. NOT AT ALL. You had the intent to shoot them as you thought about it and decided to shoot. It would not matter if it had a "hair trigger"? It would not matter if you eliminated the manual safety? Those modifications had no bearing on the shooting. You aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. Whether the trigger pulled easier, or you didn't have to release the safety first, it wouldn't matter.

That is why I am always thinking about different scenarios involving SD situations. What would I do, how would I react, what would justify my pulling the trigger. As a LEO I always had the mindset that I would never shoot anyone unless it was a life or death situation, even though we could legally shoot for felony situations. I would only shoot to protect myself or to protect the life of someone else, who was threatened with imminent death or serious injury.

I read these posts of someone "knowing" what they are talking about, when they are repeating miss-information. Realize the difference between the two types of shooting situations. An intended shooting and an accidental discharge of a gun. Give it thought and you can see the difference of how modifications can be an issue, only if the gun discharged by accident.

Bob

 

[Captains1911]

Bob-

Don't bother, the bigger picture has passed them by....

 

[revhigh]

The only way a modified gun would have any bearing on a criminal or civil case would be if it was accidentally fired. All my handguns have modifications that allow me to shoot better. I am not the least bit concerned about legal problems. The guns are easier for me to shoot and shoot more accurately, while remaining safe to handle.

Accidental discharge is the key difference. With a bone stock gun, you will be liable, as somehow during handling of the gun it discharged. Depending on the circumstances you could face criminal charges, but for injury or death you would likely face civil charges. The civil attorney suing you may also go after the gun manufacturer, (unsafe design, and deep pockets). With modifications to a gun, the first question would be "could those modifications have made the gun less safe than the stock gun? Was the cause of the discharge related to any of the modifications?" If the answer is yes, or could be yes, to either of those questions, then you could criminally face some type of negligent charges (you did not intend it to happen). If you are sued in a civil court, the modifications will be used to convince the jury to award higher damages, as the gun was "not safe and was more likely to discharge". With modifications to the gun, the gun manufacturer would most likely not be included in the lawsuit, as your modifications made the gun less safe, not their design.

The above is for accidental discharge. If you shoot someone with intent (you thought about it, took action, and completed your intent), then any modifications would not matter. If you had a trigger pull that was so light it would fire if a fly landed on the trigger, it still would not matter. It was not an accidental discharge. You had intent (thought about shooting the person, even for only a second). You took action (you aimed the gun and pulled the trigger). You completed your intent (the gun fired and the bullet hit your target). In this situation, depending on the circumstances, the charges could be nothing (a self defense situation) all the way up to first degree murder (you planned it and carried it out). Even if this shooting was determined to be an obvious SD situation, and no criminal charges are filed, you still will likely be sued by the victim, or the victim's family. You could be totally in the right by defending yourself or family, and you will still be sued. Most people are not aware of the costs of defending themselves in a "good" shooting. As we all know, in our country you can sue for almost anything. The costs for defending yourself would fall upon you, with little chance of recovering those costs. Many people have gone bankrupt, from attorney fees, defending themselves from a civil trial for damages. I am not saying to not shoot because you may get sued. I would shoot to save a life, but I know what the results of that shooting could be.

If you shoot someone and intended to shoot them, it would not matter at all how you modified the gun. NOT AT ALL. You had the intent to shoot them as you thought about it and decided to shoot. It would not matter if it had a "hair trigger"? It would not matter if you eliminated the manual safety? Those modifications had no bearing on the shooting. You aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. Whether the trigger pulled easier, or you didn't have to release the safety first, it wouldn't matter.

That is why I am always thinking about different scenarios involving SD situations. What would I do, how would I react, what would justify my pulling the trigger. As a LEO I always had the mindset that I would never shoot anyone unless it was a life or death situation, even though we could legally shoot for felony situations. I would only shoot to protect myself or to protect the life of someone else, who was threatened with imminent death or serious injury.

I read these posts of someone "knowing" what they are talking about, when they are repeating miss-information. Realize the difference between the two types of shooting situations. An intended shooting and an accidental discharge of a gun. Give it thought and you can see the difference of how modifications can be an issue, only if the gun discharged by accident.

Bob

Hey Bob !

I completely agree with everything you mentioned, and in a perfect world all would work just the way you portrayed it above. The only problem is ... Courts, like politics these days, have become more reliant on theater and perception, rather than relying only on cold hard facts, as you mention above.

When you have some scum lawyer making things up, portraying you as some bloodthirsty wannabe cop, whose gun and ammunition wasn't 'deadly enough' in stock form .... That an untrained, unlicensed owner unfamiliar with weapons engineering and fire control systems, 'modified' his gun to be easier to shoot, and therefore made it even more deadly. And then throw in the fact that it 'could' have gone off by accident due to all those reckless and un-needed modifications ... Will the aftermarket company stand by you ? No. They already disclaimed any liability.

That is called introducing reasonable doubt. It would be nice if it worked the way you mention above, but it doesn't always work like that. The courtroom is a theater, it's 12 untrained and most likely non gun savvy individuals deciding your fate based on perception. There won't be 12 gunsmiths on the jury to decide things based on common sense and factual knowledge, as a matter of fact, you can rely on the fact that there most likely won't be ONE gun-knowledgeable person there.

I've paid and talked to several firearms savvy attorneys, and read countless articles, and books on thebsubject, and the key point is ... Don't give the other side any more ammunition to potentially convict you than necessary. Massad Ayoob states very clearly his feelings and thoughts on this matter in his books and writings. Much of his thoughts were reflected in your post above. Particularly the legal aspect of defending yourself not only criminally, but civilly. YOU ARE GOING TO BE SUED no matter the outcome of the criminal trial.

One thing that Mas mentions that is quite chilling is this ... The second that you use a gun to defend yourself, and take someone's life ... The justice system switches from protecting you .... to prosecuting you. If you've never read 'In the Gravest Extreme' ... Give it a read. I know many people who've read that book, that then decided carrying a gun wasn't something they wanted to do anymore.

It's totally different being a LEO than being a civilian after a shoot. Most times LEOs are given the benefit of the doubt, due to their training and assumption of being in the right, it's usually just the opposite for a civilian shoot, as was evidenced in the Zimmerman trial.

It's good to discuss this subject rationally with you, without senseless name calling and bickering, as it seems some are incapable of doing.

Out of curiosity ... What guns does your department use ?

REV